Help me set up my network kit

Without telling me, Wanapoo activated my service last night after only 5
days, so now I have to cobble together a LAN out of my kit. I have:

Linksys WRT54G Wireless-G Broadband Router
Dynamode 4 port ADSL modem/router
Orinoco Wireless 802.11b PCMCIA card
Craptop

Previously I had Blueyonder, and the Linksys used to get an IP address
via DHCP from the cable modem. That worked well and I'd like to leave
well alone, so is it possible to set up the Dynamode to simply chuck
it's IP address staight through, as though it were a mere modem? Or is
it going to get all huffy and force me to do something flakey and clever?

TIA

John

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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
JK <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Without telling me, Wanapoo activated my service last night after
> only 5 days, so now I have to cobble together a LAN out of my kit. I
> have:
>
> Linksys WRT54G Wireless-G Broadband Router
> Dynamode 4 port ADSL modem/router
> Orinoco Wireless 802.11b PCMCIA card
> Craptop
>
> Previously I had Blueyonder, and the Linksys used to get an IP address
> via DHCP from the cable modem. That worked well and I'd like to leave
> well alone, so is it possible to set up the Dynamode to simply chuck
> it's IP address staight through, as though it were a mere modem? Or is
> it going to get all huffy and force me to do something flakey and
> clever?
>
> TIA
>
> John
>
You seem to have rather a strange collection of bits! It may work, but I'm
not sure.

More usual solutions would be one of the following:

* Use an ADSL modem with ethernet output, connected to your Linksys router
in place of the cable modem. Everything would then work exactly as before.

* Replace the Linksys with a combined ADSL modem/wireless router/firewall
etc. (or possibly, a wired router plus wireless access point). This would
use NAT to share the external IP address allocated by your ADSL ISP, and
would also (if you so wished) act as a DHCP server to issue internal IP
addreses to all the PCs in your network.

What you appear to have is two routers, connected back to back, each with
the ability of acting as DHCP servers. AIUI, a DHCP server needs a fixed IP
address, and cannot pick one up from another DHCP server. If you have wired
devices connected to one router and wireless devices connected to the other
one, you will need to set up the two DHCP servers to allocate IP addresses
in different ranges - albeit all with the same subnet mask.
--
Cheers,
Tim
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Tiscali Tim wrote:
> In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
> JK <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>>Without telling me, Wanapoo activated my service last night after
>>only 5 days, so now I have to cobble together a LAN out of my kit. I
>>have:
>>
>>Linksys WRT54G Wireless-G Broadband Router
>>Dynamode 4 port ADSL modem/router
>>Orinoco Wireless 802.11b PCMCIA card
>>Craptop
>>
>>Previously I had Blueyonder, and the Linksys used to get an IP address
>>via DHCP from the cable modem. That worked well and I'd like to leave
>>well alone, so is it possible to set up the Dynamode to simply chuck
>>it's IP address staight through, as though it were a mere modem? Or is
>>it going to get all huffy and force me to do something flakey and
>>clever?
>>
>>TIA
>>
>>John
>>
>
> You seem to have rather a strange collection of bits! It may work, but I'm
> not sure.

Me too!

> AIUI, a DHCP server needs a fixed IP
> address, and cannot pick one up from another DHCP server.

That's wrong. The Linksys used to get an IP address from the cable modem
via DHCP, and serve the LAN DHCP addresses in teh 192.168.. range.



If you have wired
> devices connected to one router and wireless devices connected to the other
> one, you will need to set up the two DHCP servers to allocate IP addresses
> in different ranges - albeit all with the same subnet mask.

I think it's going to just work. The Dynamode and the Linksys use
different address ranges for DHCP by default. But if it doesn't, the
Dynamode can be set up to do DHCP Relay, which I believe will make it
work exactly as my old cable modem did.

Thanks

John

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
JK <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Tiscali Tim wrote:
>> In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
>
>> AIUI, a DHCP server needs a fixed IP
>> address, and cannot pick one up from another DHCP server.
>
> That's wrong. The Linksys used to get an IP address from the cable
> modem via DHCP, and serve the LAN DHCP addresses in teh 192.168..
> range.
>

Surely the IP address which it got from the modem was the *external* IP
address issued by your ISP, which the router then shared using NAT? The
addesses dished out by the router in its DHCP capacity would have been
*internal* ones, as used by TCP/IP within your domestic LAN. I imagine that
the router would have done this, even without the modem being connected.
--
Cheers,
Tim
______
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Tiscali Tim wrote:
> In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
> JK <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>>Tiscali Tim wrote:
>>
>>>In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
>>
>>>AIUI, a DHCP server needs a fixed IP
>>>address, and cannot pick one up from another DHCP server.
>>
>>That's wrong. The Linksys used to get an IP address from the cable
>>modem via DHCP, and serve the LAN DHCP addresses in teh 192.168..
>>range.
>>
>
>
> Surely the IP address which it got from the modem was the *external* IP
> address issued by your ISP, which the router then shared using NAT? The
> addesses dished out by the router in its DHCP capacity would have been
> *internal* ones, as used by TCP/IP within your domestic LAN. I imagine that
> the router would have done this, even without the modem being connected.


Yes, that's right, and that external IP address would change from time
to time. So in my new scenario, the ADSL modem/router will get a proper
internet IP address from Wanadooo, and then issue an internal IP address
to the wireless router in the 10.0.0.x range, acting as a DHCP server.
The wireless router will also serve addresses to my laptop, but in the
192.168.0.x range. There might be some subnet issues I'm not aware of,
and I can imagine port forwarding could get tricky, but in principle,
why would this not work? Perhaps there's a problem with having 2 layers
of NAT, is that what you're getting at?

John

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
JK <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
> Yes, that's right, and that external IP address would change from time
> to time. So in my new scenario, the ADSL modem/router will get a
> proper internet IP address from Wanadooo, and then issue an internal
> IP address to the wireless router in the 10.0.0.x range, acting as a
> DHCP server. The wireless router will also serve addresses to my
> laptop, but in the 192.168.0.x range. There might be some subnet
> issues I'm not aware of, and I can imagine port forwarding could get
> tricky, but in principle, why would this not work? Perhaps there's a
> problem with having 2 layers of NAT, is that what you're getting at?
>

There is certainly a subnet problem if you want both lots of computers to
talk to each other - unless you have a subnet mask of 0.0.0.0 - and I'm not
sure whether that is allowed.

With a more reasonable subnet mask of 255.255.255.0 the first 3 sections of
all your IP addresses need to be common - so you can't have some starting
with 10 and some with 192. Can you set the 2 DHCP servers up with 2
compatible but not overlapping ranges - such as one starting with 10.0.0.0
and the other with 10.0.0.128 (say)? All the IP addresses issued by either
server would then be in the same network, assuming a subnet mask of
255.255.255.0

The potential problem of having 2 layers of NAT was what I had in mind in my
first post - when I said it may or may not work. I just don't know whether
it will work or not - it's outside my experience!
--
Cheers,
Tim
______
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Tiscali Tim wrote:
> In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
> JK <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>>Yes, that's right, and that external IP address would change from time
>>to time. So in my new scenario, the ADSL modem/router will get a
>>proper internet IP address from Wanadooo, and then issue an internal
>>IP address to the wireless router in the 10.0.0.x range, acting as a
>>DHCP server. The wireless router will also serve addresses to my
>>laptop, but in the 192.168.0.x range. There might be some subnet
>>issues I'm not aware of, and I can imagine port forwarding could get
>>tricky, but in principle, why would this not work? Perhaps there's a
>>problem with having 2 layers of NAT, is that what you're getting at?
>>
>
>
> There is certainly a subnet problem if you want both lots of computers to
> talk to each other - unless you have a subnet mask of 0.0.0.0 - and I'm not
> sure whether that is allowed.

But there is only one computer! And 2 routers. I think both routers' sw
can set up whatever DHCP ranges and subnets I want, and I can use static
IP addresses if I need to. I could make the adsl m/r 192.168.0.1 and the
wifi router 192.168.0.2 and my PC 192.168.0.3, and use a subnet of
255.255.255.0. I can see I might need to get into explicit routing though.


> The potential problem of having 2 layers of NAT was what I had in mind in my
> first post - when I said it may or may not work. I just don't know whether
> it will work or not - it's outside my experience!


I think it's just going to work out of the box! You can definitely have
multiple layers of NAT, I've just been reading about it. Itching to get
home and play now!


--
--
Got a spare GMail invite? I don't have one and I'd like to try it.
c h ee s bike @ y ah o o (dot) c o (dot) u k
--

JK wrote:
> Tiscali Tim wrote:
>
>> In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
>> JK <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Yes, that's right, and that external IP address would change from time
>>> to time. So in my new scenario, the ADSL modem/router will get a
>>> proper internet IP address from Wanadooo, and then issue an internal
>>> IP address to the wireless router in the 10.0.0.x range, acting as a
>>> DHCP server. The wireless router will also serve addresses to my
>>> laptop, but in the 192.168.0.x range. There might be some subnet
>>> issues I'm not aware of, and I can imagine port forwarding could get
>>> tricky, but in principle, why would this not work? Perhaps there's a
>>> problem with having 2 layers of NAT, is that what you're getting at?
>>>
>>
>>
>> There is certainly a subnet problem if you want both lots of computers to
>> talk to each other - unless you have a subnet mask of 0.0.0.0 - and
>> I'm not
>> sure whether that is allowed.
>
>
> But there is only one computer! And 2 routers. I think both routers' sw
> can set up whatever DHCP ranges and subnets I want, and I can use static
> IP addresses if I need to. I could make the adsl m/r 192.168.0.1 and the
> wifi router 192.168.0.2 and my PC 192.168.0.3, and use a subnet of
> 255.255.255.0. I can see I might need to get into explicit routing though.
>
>
>> The potential problem of having 2 layers of NAT was what I had in mind
>> in my
>> first post - when I said it may or may not work. I just don't know
>> whether
>> it will work or not - it's outside my experience!
>
>
>
> I think it's just going to work out of the box! You can definitely have
> multiple layers of NAT, I've just been reading about it. Itching to get
> home and play now!
>
>
Dont think you need to use the Linksys as a router - just disable the
DHCP server on the router, connect the LAN side of the Linksysy to the
LAN side of the Dynamode and effectively the Linksys is then an Wireless
Access Point

JP

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
JK <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
> But there is only one computer! And 2 routers.


In that case, you've chosen a bleeding complicated way of connecting it to
the internet!!!
--
Cheers,
Tim
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Tiscali Tim wrote:
> In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
> JK <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>>But there is only one computer! And 2 routers.
>
>
>
> In that case, you've chosen a bleeding complicated way of connecting it to
> the internet!!!

LOL. I actually tried to buy a 1 port ethernet ADSL modem, but PCW sent
me a router by mistake and it seems churlish not to have a go!