Help with Marina Wifi

Hi all,
I have a boat in a marina, the office sent out a letter that they now have a
wireless router up and running
and gave out the code to log on.
I'm about 500 ft away and don't even see the signal. The farthest boat is
about 850ft.
After investigating the setup, I see the router is setup in an interior
utility room. The signal must
pass through 3 walls just to get out of the building.
I doubt anyone in the marina can get a signal, the girl in the office said
her laptop works, in the office.

The router has the standard short antenna and I see no way to remove it and
plug in an antenna.
I want to see if I can help the marina get a setup that works for me!
First, an antenna with a 90* pattern will cover the whole marina from the
marina office.
I want to know what can legally be done with wifi antennas and routers to
make a
working system for the marina.
Mike

"Jeff Liebermann" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Mon, 4 May 2009 12:06:05 -0500, "amdx" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>Hi all,
>>I have a boat in a marina, the office sent out a letter that they now have
>>a
>>wireless router up and running
>>and gave out the code to log on.
>> I'm about 500 ft away and don't even see the signal. The farthest boat
>> is
>>about 850ft.
>>After investigating the setup, I see the router is setup in an interior
>>utility room. The signal must
>>pass through 3 walls just to get out of the building.
>>I doubt anyone in the marina can get a signal, the girl in the office said
>>her laptop works, in the office.
>>
>>The router has the standard short antenna and I see no way to remove it
>>and
>>plug in an antenna.
>> I want to see if I can help the marina get a setup that works for me!
>> First, an antenna with a 90* pattern will cover the whole marina from
>> the
>>marina office.
>>I want to know what can legally be done with wifi antennas and routers to
>>make a
>>working system for the marina.
>> Mike
>>
>
> First, please read the "Wi-Fi on a boat FAQ" at:
> <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_on_a_Boat>
>
> There's nothing wrong with having two wireless access points, as long
> as they're on different channels. If you just move the existing
> wireless router outdoors, the formerly friendly girl in the office,
> will not be very happy having her laptop go through 3 walls and
> probably not work. Therefore, you need two.
>
> There are lots of outdoor access points with removable external
> antennas. To cover 90 degrees and 850ft, I suggest a sector antenna.
> These have plenty of gain, a 90-150 degree horizontal pattern, but
> only a 5-10 degree vertical pattern.
> <http://www.superpass.com/2400-2483M_90.html>
> There are also home made version called AMOS/Franklin antennas:
> <http://pe2er.nl/wifisector/>
> For a marine environment, I would suggest the commercial version.
>
> There are a myriad of possible access points that can be used. It
> really depends on how and where it's mounted. The best is near the
> antenna, but that has to be fairly environmentally resistant, and use
> PoE (Power over Ethernet). To start, I suggest:
> <http://www.ubnt.com/products/bullet.php>
> However, I've never tried one of these and suspect there may be
> surprises. However, at about $50, it's cheap enough that a mistake
> won't be financially fatal.
>
> If lost, you might want to find someone locally with wi-fi experience.
> --
> Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Well, yes I'm a little lost, but I'm trainable!
Regarding the bullet, I don't see much info to tell me what it does or how
to connect it.
I think it goes cable modem---router---bullet---antenna, seems like the
router and
bullet are redundant, but I'm here to learn.
I suspect this will add a second program for the office to deal with.
I'd like to make this simple for the office.
cable modem---router---antenna
There may be a second complicating factor, I think the office has to go
through
the local cities computer network. (it's a city marina)
Help me with the above and I'll learn more about the marina'a system in the
next few days.
Thanks, Mike

"Jeff Liebermann" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Tue, 5 May 2009 07:13:15 -0500, "amdx" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>Regarding the bullet, I don't see much info to tell me what it does or how
>>to connect it.
>
> The manual is online but well hidden:
> <http://wiki.ubnt.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page>
> However, it doesn't cover the basics. I'm not sure where to point
> you. Try the various tutorials, how to's, and papers at:
> <http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/86/106/>
>
>>I think it goes cable modem---router---bullet---antenna, seems like the
>>router and
>>bullet are redundant, but I'm here to learn.
>
> Yep. The part that's not obvious is that your existing "wireless
> routers" is actually an "ethernet router" and a "wireless access
> point" in one package. A "wireless access point" (such as the Bullet
> thing) is actually just a "wireless ethernet bridge". You can connect
> any number of "wireless access points" to a single "ethernet router".
> (Incidentally, such multiple AP arrangements are often called a
> "wireless switch"). The added Bullet AP is simply plugged into one of
> the LAN ports on the back of the "ethernet router" section to provide
> additional coverage. On small complication is that this particular AP
> derives its power via a PoE adapter, which may make the wiring a bit
> complicated.
>
> I'm fairly sure I've lost you at this point. Just read the above
> several times (slowly) until it sinks in. It's not as horrible as it
> looks. I've marked the buzzwords with double quotes.
>
>>I suspect this will add a second program for the office to deal with.
>
> Program? Huh? Leave the office system alone. Just add an access
> point outside.
>
>>I'd like to make this simple for the office.
>>cable modem---router---antenna
>
> Nope. The problem is that the office is inside 3 walls from the
> outside. In effect, you have two isolated coverage areas. You'll
> probably need two wireless devices. One already exists and is working
> in the office. Leave it alone. The other is simply added to the
> existing system.
>
>>There may be a second complicating factor, I think the office has to go
>>through
>>the local cities computer network. (it's a city marina)
>
> If true, you've got a MAJOR security problem. To the city, adding
> wireless access to their network is treated as a "rogue access point"
> and is strictly discouraged. I smell an unauthorized project. The
> techology is simple enough. The politics never is.
>
>>Help me with the above and I'll learn more about the marina'a system in
>>the
>>next few days.
>
> Methinks you had better get permission from the city IT department
> before inviting all the local hackers onto their network.
>
Don't know about the rogue access and major security problem, I just
know they have been saying they would get wifi set up for the marina,
and now they say the have it. But I don't believe it's useful for anyone
on a boat in the marina.
I have a 15dbi panel antenna and receive between 15 and 23 signals
on any particular day, depends on the wind and tide :-),
but I don't see any signal from the marina office.
Thanks, Mike

"amdx" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:6e194$49ff2081$d8baf35e$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi all,
> I have a boat in a marina, the office sent out a letter that they now have
> a wireless router up and running
> and gave out the code to log on.
> I'm about 500 ft away and don't even see the signal. The farthest boat is
> about 850ft.
> After investigating the setup, I see the router is setup in an interior
> utility room. The signal must
> pass through 3 walls just to get out of the building.
> I doubt anyone in the marina can get a signal, the girl in the office said
> her laptop works, in the office.
>
> The router has the standard short antenna and I see no way to remove it
> and plug in an antenna.
> I want to see if I can help the marina get a setup that works for me!
> First, an antenna with a 90* pattern will cover the whole marina from the
> marina office.
> I want to know what can legally be done with wifi antennas and routers to
> make a
> working system for the marina.
> Mike

lots of good info here...
Might try asking the "office" what the expected range of the WiFi might be ?
and then have the "laptop girl" try it outside at various points....
ie - a site survey -

Also - might gently explain that WiFi is like a shining a flashlight on an
area...
If you can't physically see the access point (or flashlight) from your
location -
you can't use the signal (light)...

"ps56k" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:UxnMl.15827$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "amdx" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:6e194$49ff2081$d8baf35e$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Hi all,
>> I have a boat in a marina, the office sent out a letter that they now
>> have a wireless router up and running
>> and gave out the code to log on.
>> I'm about 500 ft away and don't even see the signal. The farthest boat
>> is about 850ft.
>> After investigating the setup, I see the router is setup in an interior
>> utility room. The signal must
>> pass through 3 walls just to get out of the building.
>> I doubt anyone in the marina can get a signal, the girl in the office
>> said her laptop works, in the office.
>>
>> The router has the standard short antenna and I see no way to remove it
>> and plug in an antenna.
>> I want to see if I can help the marina get a setup that works for me!
>> First, an antenna with a 90* pattern will cover the whole marina from
>> the marina office.
>> I want to know what can legally be done with wifi antennas and routers to
>> make a
>> working system for the marina.
>> Mike
>
> lots of good info here...
> Might try asking the "office" what the expected range of the WiFi might be
> ?
> and then have the "laptop girl" try it outside at various points....
> ie - a site survey -
>
> Also - might gently explain that WiFi is like a shining a flashlight on an
> area...
> If you can't physically see the access point (or flashlight) from your
> location -
> you can't use the signal (light)...
>
I talked to the office today, Since the access code was distributed to
all the boat owners,
I think the office thought everyone would have access. I setup my laptop
about 30ft from the
front door of the office, I did manage to connect but it was very weak. The
closest boat is about
120ft. I don't think they could connect.
The IT person was supposed to be there today but didn't show. I told the
office manager
where I wanted the antenna put, I'm would be on the the edge of any useable
pattern, but
I do have a large boat that docks near me and I want line of sight to the
antenna.
I'm about 500ft away with a 15dbi panel antenna and I don't see their
signal.
I think I have a better chance of the system working for me if the IT
person is not involved.
I ask about the budget for the system and all I got was a smile.
Mike