Hawking 15dbi Corner Antenna - What am I doing wrong?

I really need to improve the range of a wireless LAN, so I picked up a
Hawking HAI15SC corner antenna. It has increased my range by some multiple
of ZERO, almost regardless of how I utilize it. What am I doing wrong?
I've got a Dlink DI614+ router in a small equipment room in the middle of
our church. Currently there is a Hawking HAI6SIP +6dbi omni antenna
attached to it. Approximately 70 feet south of the room there are 3 small
offices, clustered closely together, each with a workstation running a Dlink
DWL-520 PCI card. The first of these offices is relatively open to the
hallway running from equipment room, and its signal reception is tolerable -
about 40% on the Dlink utility, which means the link doesn't drop and the
speed is acceptable for internet usage. The computers in the other two
offices, however, will not work at all with the included Dlink antenna.
Because of the way the offices are positioned, approximately 3-4 additional
walls are brought into play between the computers and the router, as
compared to the first office. I purchased the Hawking corner antenna
thinking it might improve things attached either to one of the client
computers or to the Dlink router, with the omni antenna attached to the
client(s). With the omni on the router and the corner antenna on the
clients, I can just barely get signal. It's not enough to maintain the
link. Swapping the antennas around doesn't make any significant difference.
From various trial-and-error, I'm convinced that the advertised +15dBi is
waaaay off. I'm not even sure it's as good as the +6dBi omni model, which
I've used many times.
There is a little money left in our budget for this type of thing, so I'm in
a position to buy "better" or more stuff if needed. I know we can make this
work wireless, but I'm going to have to really tweak things.
Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

jm

JM wrote:
> I really need to improve the range of a wireless LAN, so I picked up a
> Hawking HAI15SC corner antenna. It has increased my range by some multiple
> of ZERO, almost regardless of how I utilize it. What am I doing wrong?
> I've got a Dlink DI614+ router in a small equipment room in the middle of
> our church. Currently there is a Hawking HAI6SIP +6dbi omni antenna
> attached to it. Approximately 70 feet south of the room there are 3 small
> offices, clustered closely together, each with a workstation running a Dlink
> DWL-520 PCI card. The first of these offices is relatively open to the
> hallway running from equipment room, and its signal reception is tolerable -
> about 40% on the Dlink utility, which means the link doesn't drop and the
> speed is acceptable for internet usage. The computers in the other two
> offices, however, will not work at all with the included Dlink antenna.
> Because of the way the offices are positioned, approximately 3-4 additional
> walls are brought into play between the computers and the router, as
> compared to the first office. I purchased the Hawking corner antenna
> thinking it might improve things attached either to one of the client
> computers or to the Dlink router, with the omni antenna attached to the
> client(s). With the omni on the router and the corner antenna on the
> clients, I can just barely get signal. It's not enough to maintain the
> link. Swapping the antennas around doesn't make any significant difference.
> From various trial-and-error, I'm convinced that the advertised +15dBi is
> waaaay off. I'm not even sure it's as good as the +6dBi omni model, which
> I've used many times.
> There is a little money left in our budget for this type of thing, so I'm in
> a position to buy "better" or more stuff if needed. I know we can make this
> work wireless, but I'm going to have to really tweak things.
> Any input is greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you,
>
> jm

So that's why CompUSA was selling that antenna for $10.

3-4 walls! What are they made from, ferro-concrete or with some other
metallic material in them that is acting as a shield. It seems as if you are
quite lucky even getting sufficient signal into the first room.

It would seem as if the router should be located somewhere in the three
offices where it will not be shielded to the same extent. It may be easier
to ethernet the three offices back to a point where there is an acceptable
signal but then perhaps the complete link should be ethernet and not
wireless anyway. There are some situations where wireless is really not
practical and you may well have one of them despite good antennas etc.

Peter

"JM" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:8wG1f.1461$(E-Mail Removed)...
> I really need to improve the range of a wireless LAN, so I picked up a
> Hawking HAI15SC corner antenna. It has increased my range by some
multiple
> of ZERO, almost regardless of how I utilize it. What am I doing wrong?
> I've got a Dlink DI614+ router in a small equipment room in the middle of
> our church. Currently there is a Hawking HAI6SIP +6dbi omni antenna
> attached to it. Approximately 70 feet south of the room there are 3 small
> offices, clustered closely together, each with a workstation running a
Dlink
> DWL-520 PCI card. The first of these offices is relatively open to the
> hallway running from equipment room, and its signal reception is
tolerable -
> about 40% on the Dlink utility, which means the link doesn't drop and the
> speed is acceptable for internet usage. The computers in the other two
> offices, however, will not work at all with the included Dlink antenna.
> Because of the way the offices are positioned, approximately 3-4
additional
> walls are brought into play between the computers and the router, as
> compared to the first office. I purchased the Hawking corner antenna
> thinking it might improve things attached either to one of the client
> computers or to the Dlink router, with the omni antenna attached to the
> client(s). With the omni on the router and the corner antenna on the
> clients, I can just barely get signal. It's not enough to maintain the
> link. Swapping the antennas around doesn't make any significant
difference.
> From various trial-and-error, I'm convinced that the advertised +15dBi is
> waaaay off. I'm not even sure it's as good as the +6dBi omni model, which
> I've used many times.
> There is a little money left in our budget for this type of thing, so I'm
in
> a position to buy "better" or more stuff if needed. I know we can make
this
> work wireless, but I'm going to have to really tweak things.
> Any input is greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you,
>
> jm
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

"DanR" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:BPH1f.1083$(E-Mail Removed) ...
>
>
> JM wrote:
>> I really need to improve the range of a wireless LAN, so I picked up a
>> Hawking HAI15SC corner antenna. It has increased my range by some
>> multiple
>> of ZERO, almost regardless of how I utilize it. What am I doing wrong?
>> I've got a Dlink DI614+ router in a small equipment room in the middle of
>> our church. Currently there is a Hawking HAI6SIP +6dbi omni antenna
>> attached to it. Approximately 70 feet south of the room there are 3
>> small
>> offices, clustered closely together, each with a workstation running a
>> Dlink
>> DWL-520 PCI card. The first of these offices is relatively open to the
>> hallway running from equipment room, and its signal reception is
>> tolerable -
>> about 40% on the Dlink utility, which means the link doesn't drop and the
>> speed is acceptable for internet usage. The computers in the other two
>> offices, however, will not work at all with the included Dlink antenna.
>> Because of the way the offices are positioned, approximately 3-4
>> additional
>> walls are brought into play between the computers and the router, as
>> compared to the first office. I purchased the Hawking corner antenna
>> thinking it might improve things attached either to one of the client
>> computers or to the Dlink router, with the omni antenna attached to the
>> client(s). With the omni on the router and the corner antenna on the
>> clients, I can just barely get signal. It's not enough to maintain the
>> link. Swapping the antennas around doesn't make any significant
>> difference.
>> From various trial-and-error, I'm convinced that the advertised +15dBi is
>> waaaay off. I'm not even sure it's as good as the +6dBi omni model,
>> which
>> I've used many times.
>> There is a little money left in our budget for this type of thing, so I'm
>> in
>> a position to buy "better" or more stuff if needed. I know we can make
>> this
>> work wireless, but I'm going to have to really tweak things.
>> Any input is greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> jm
>
> So that's why CompUSA was selling that antenna for $10.
>

Wow . . . that doubles the pain. CompUSA got $49.95 from me for the POS.

jm

"Pierre" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:di7era$t4c$(E-Mail Removed)...
> 3-4 walls! What are they made from, ferro-concrete or with some other
> metallic material in them that is acting as a shield. It seems as if you
> are
> quite lucky even getting sufficient signal into the first room.
>
> It would seem as if the router should be located somewhere in the three
> offices where it will not be shielded to the same extent. It may be easier
> to ethernet the three offices back to a point where there is an acceptable
> signal but then perhaps the complete link should be ethernet and not
> wireless anyway. There are some situations where wireless is really not
> practical and you may well have one of them despite good antennas etc.
>
> Peter
>

I was hoping to make wireless work because the building contains only
category 3 wire, and the architecture makes further wiring/rewiring
impractical. I've used cat3 before for internet-only networks, and I can do
it again here by robbing some spare pairs. It's just a jack-leg way of
doing it.

Can you believe the cabling folks used ALL category 3 wire . . . in a large
prominent church built less than two years ago??

jm

JM <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

Wow... long paragraph.

> I really need to improve the range of a wireless LAN, so I picked up a
> Hawking HAI15SC corner antenna. It has increased my range by some multiple
> of ZERO, almost regardless of how I utilize it. What am I doing wrong?

The setup:

> I've got a Dlink DI614+ router in a small equipment room in the middle of
> our church. Currently there is a Hawking HAI6SIP +6dbi omni antenna
> attached to it.

> Approximately 70 feet south of the room there are 3 small offices,
> clustered closely together, each with a workstation running a Dlink
> DWL-520 PCI card.

> The first of these offices is relatively open to the hallway running from
> equipment room, and its signal reception is tolerable - about 40% on the
> Dlink utility, which means the link doesn't drop and the speed is
> acceptable for internet usage.

Okay. This would be a good place to test antenna improvements. Marginal
signal can be improved and observed.

Does this location work at all with the stock antenna? Do you see that the
6dB omni on the router makes a difference at this location?

> The computers in the other two offices, however, will not work at all
> with the included Dlink antenna. Because of the way the offices are
> positioned, approximately 3-4 additional walls are brought into play
> between the computers and the router, as compared to the first office.

If there is no signal, we don't know yet if we need 6dB of improvement, or
100dB of improvement. It might not be possible to work at that location,
due to some unknown factors.

> I purchased the Hawking corner antenna thinking it might improve things
> attached either to one of the client computers or to the Dlink router,
> with the omni antenna attached to the client(s). With the omni on the
> router and the corner antenna on the clients, I can just barely get
> signal. It's not enough to maintain the link.

So the antenna helps, just not enough.

> Swapping the antennas around doesn't make any significant difference.
> From various trial-and-error, I'm convinced that the advertised +15dBi is
> waaaay off. I'm not even sure it's as good as the +6dBi omni model,
> which I've used many times.

What does "Swapping" mean? Which various trials did you do?
If you went from no signal to some signal, you don't know how much
improvement you have.

Did you try the 15dB antenna in the middle location? Did it improve the
signal?

Did you try the 6dB and then the 15dB at the router, measuring the change
at the middle location?

The 15dB directional antenna might need to be pointed somewhere other than
what you expect. Did you try rotating and angling in all three dimensions?
In my layout, There are two exterior walls and about 50 feet between the
router and my laptop. A directional antenna on the laptop doesn't get its
best signal pointed directly at the router. I can point it toward a
hallway, through a window that seems out of line, or at a wall toward a
window in the other room. Straight through two walls is worse.

Rotating the antenna on its horizontal axis also makes a difference. I get
better signal with the antenna horizontal than I do vertical.

> There is a little money left in our budget for this type of thing, so I'm
> in a position to buy "better" or more stuff if needed. I know we can
> make this work wireless, but I'm going to have to really tweak things.
> Any input is greatly appreciated.

It would be good to know if the 15dB directional antenna is better than the
6dB omni. If it isn't return it and get another.

A directional antenna at each end would be a good thing.

I have used the "Hawking HAI6SDA Directional 6dBi 2.4GHz Antenna"
http://www.hawkingtech.com/prodSpec.php?ProdID=143 with good success.

I have used the freeantennas.com Windsurfer EZ-12 with good success.

I can use my windsurfer equipped Netgear router through three or four
exterior walls to an outside location 100 feet from the router to a laptop
that has no additional antenna.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5

JM <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Can you believe the cabling folks used ALL category 3 wire . . . in a large
> prominent church built less than two years ago??

If there was some volunteer work involved, yes. I see well intentioned
folks who donate things that would be better left in their garage.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 02:52:52 GMT, "JM" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I really need to improve the range of a wireless LAN, so I picked up a
>Hawking HAI15SC corner antenna. It has increased my range by some multiple
>of ZERO, almost regardless of how I utilize it. What am I doing wrong?
>I've got a Dlink DI614+ router in a small equipment room in the middle of
>our church. Currently there is a Hawking HAI6SIP +6dbi omni antenna
>attached to it.

I just received one of the Hawking HAI6SIP omni antennas and gave it a
try on a Linksys WMP11 pci card. It worked about as well as the stock
rubber duck antenna. There's a long thin cable on the Hawking antenna
which just about negates the 6 dB antenna gain, so you end up about
where you start. But you can move the Hawking antenna around more than
the rubber duck so that might help. I might try shortening the Hawking
cable when I get the urge to destroy.

Like Clarence says, the Windsurfer reflectors are good. I was able to
double my range with one on a Netgear MR814v2 router.

Bruce

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:di8mrv$aq4$(E-Mail Removed)...
> JM <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Can you believe the cabling folks used ALL category 3 wire . . . in a
>> large
>> prominent church built less than two years ago??
>
> If there was some volunteer work involved, yes. I see well intentioned
> folks who donate things that would be better left in their garage.
>
> --
> ---
> Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5

Very perceptive. In fact, "some volunteer work" *was* done in this case.
The guy is a long-time professional, and this was his last job prior to
retirement. In his defense, the church decision makers never imaged a true
data network, and the wiring job is first-rate - very clean and efficient.
My beef is simply that he didn't use cat5/5e anywhere.

jm

>
> Wow... long paragraph.

Sorry about that. Thanks for muddling through it and posting such a
thoughtful reply.

>> I really need to improve the range of a wireless LAN, so I picked up a
>> Hawking HAI15SC corner antenna. It has increased my range by some
>> multiple
>> of ZERO, almost regardless of how I utilize it. What am I doing wrong?
>
> The setup:
>
>> I've got a Dlink DI614+ router in a small equipment room in the middle of
>> our church. Currently there is a Hawking HAI6SIP +6dbi omni antenna
>> attached to it.
>
>> Approximately 70 feet south of the room there are 3 small offices,
>> clustered closely together, each with a workstation running a Dlink
>> DWL-520 PCI card.
>
>> The first of these offices is relatively open to the hallway running from
>> equipment room, and its signal reception is tolerable - about 40% on the
>> Dlink utility, which means the link doesn't drop and the speed is
>> acceptable for internet usage.
>
> Okay. This would be a good place to test antenna improvements. Marginal
> signal can be improved and observed.
>
> Does this location work at all with the stock antenna? Do you see that
> the
> 6dB omni on the router makes a difference at this location?

The first location is working with the stock antenna. Yes, the 6dB omni
does make a difference of the stock antenna on the router. The signal here
drops by about 1-2dB when the corner antenna is on the router. However, as
will be clarified below, I have not exhausted my options for positioning. I
really only tried the corner in one position. I guess I assumed the
direction for this antenna to be obvious because of its design.


>> The computers in the other two offices, however, will not work at all
>> with the included Dlink antenna. Because of the way the offices are
>> positioned, approximately 3-4 additional walls are brought into play
>> between the computers and the router, as compared to the first office.
>
> If there is no signal, we don't know yet if we need 6dB of improvement, or
> 100dB of improvement. It might not be possible to work at that location,
> due to some unknown factors.

I made a mistake in my original post. Of the two "bad" office locations,
one (the farthest away) is using a Dlink wireless pci NIC. It, when used
with the corner antenna, will achieve approx 25% connection on the Dlink
utility, but it's not consistent, and the signal will drop as people move
in/out of the office and through the hallway by the door. I'm confident it
can be made to work.
However, the other office, which is one wall closer to the router, is using
a Hawking pci NIC. It will connect at the "bad" rating (on the Hawking
utility), but I cannot pull an IP address. It was late, and I did not
measure the signal level at that location.


>> I purchased the Hawking corner antenna thinking it might improve things
>> attached either to one of the client computers or to the Dlink router,
>> with the omni antenna attached to the client(s). With the omni on the
>> router and the corner antenna on the clients, I can just barely get
>> signal. It's not enough to maintain the link.
>
> So the antenna helps, just not enough.

Correct.

>> Swapping the antennas around doesn't make any significant difference.
>> From various trial-and-error, I'm convinced that the advertised +15dBi is
>> waaaay off. I'm not even sure it's as good as the +6dBi omni model,
>> which I've used many times.
>
> What does "Swapping" mean? Which various trials did you do?
> If you went from no signal to some signal, you don't know how much
> improvement you have.

By "swapping" I mean that I tried the putting the corner antenna on the
router and the omni on the clients and v/v. At least as far as my own
implementations, the overall performace decreased anytime the corner antenna
was on the router. In other words, it *seems* clear that the 6dB omni is
the better choice to be used with the router.


> Did you try the 15dB antenna in the middle location? Did it improve the
> signal?

The 15dB (corner) antenna performed about the same as the stock pencil
antenna *when attached to the router*. However, it seems to be a slight
improvement over the same antenna when attached to the client.



> Did you try the 6dB and then the 15dB at the router, measuring the change
> at the middle location?

I did not measure the difference between the two antennas in the bad
offices. I was running out of time and simply trying to establish
connection.


> The 15dB directional antenna might need to be pointed somewhere other than
> what you expect. Did you try rotating and angling in all three
> dimensions?
> In my layout, There are two exterior walls and about 50 feet between the
> router and my laptop. A directional antenna on the laptop doesn't get its
> best signal pointed directly at the router. I can point it toward a
> hallway, through a window that seems out of line, or at a wall toward a
> window in the other room. Straight through two walls is worse.
>
> Rotating the antenna on its horizontal axis also makes a difference. I
> get
> better signal with the antenna horizontal than I do vertical.
>
>> There is a little money left in our budget for this type of thing, so I'm
>> in a position to buy "better" or more stuff if needed. I know we can
>> make this work wireless, but I'm going to have to really tweak things.
>> Any input is greatly appreciated.
>
> It would be good to know if the 15dB directional antenna is better than
> the
> 6dB omni. If it isn't return it and get another.
>
> A directional antenna at each end would be a good thing.
>
> I have used the "Hawking HAI6SDA Directional 6dBi 2.4GHz Antenna"
> http://www.hawkingtech.com/prodSpec.php?ProdID=143 with good success.
>
> I have used the freeantennas.com Windsurfer EZ-12 with good success.
>
> I can use my windsurfer equipped Netgear router through three or four
> exterior walls to an outside location 100 feet from the router to a laptop
> that has no additional antenna.
>

This is all GREAT input, thank you. You have given me a lot of ideas. So
much so that I'm going to go out there today (Saturday) and try to work this
thing out.
I will report my experience. In the meantime, any other thoughts you have
are welcome. I really appreciate your help. I've been in the telecom/data
business for 7 years, but I am a noob in the wireless stuff. I desperately
need to flatten out the learning curve.
Thank you again.

jm