Frustrating quest for a decent wireless bridge.

After some testing with a PCMCIA wireless network card
I like to have a wireless bridge ( client ) for the same purposes
as the PCMCIA card is used.
No big deal I thought, now I found out, most of these bridges
not nearly have the possibilities as any cheapo PCMCIA card
or USB dongles have.
An IMHO very elementary option to just scan for available
networks or hotspots show no signals strength or isn't available
at all!?
Some senao models (like 3054) looked promising but these simple
options like showing the signal strength isn't there according a
reseller.
(I must say I have a hard time believing that.)
Some other models like linksys WET54G
have only 60 mWatt from the already limited 100 mWatt allowed.

Hopefully anyone here has a model that suit my needs.
What I want is :
Use it as a wireless client to be able to connect to hotspots
see many abbreviations like P2P multi point and what not.
I only want an internet connection from hotspots and
connect this bridge to a network ( router ) so that all
computers have internet access.

An OS independent model( HTTP configuration )
100 mWatt power
connecting a external directional antenna.
WEP and WPA
B and G band
Scanning for available hotspots or networks.
See the strength of these networks.
See what security they use.
Selectable channels
preferable working on 12 volts

Outdoor models are fine too as long as it isn't twice
or ten times the price from an indoor model.

If there is any analyzing software working with such a wireless bridge
that should even be better
Suggestions are highly appreciated.
If it doesn't met all my wishes but you have a good experience with
some model , I like to know about that too.

Sorry for the long story.

On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 14:53:13 +0000, Edmund <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
<ead1dg$1gs$(E-Mail Removed)>:

>After some testing with a PCMCIA wireless network card
>I like to have a wireless bridge ( client ) for the same purposes
>as the PCMCIA card is used.
>No big deal I thought, now I found out, most of these bridges
>not nearly have the possibilities as any cheapo PCMCIA card
>or USB dongles have.

Understandable, because functionality of the cheapo PC Card is provided
by host software, not embedded firmware.

>An IMHO very elementary option to just scan for available
>networks or hotspots show no signals strength or isn't available
>at all!?
>Some senao models (like 3054) looked promising but these simple
>options like showing the signal strength isn't there according a
>reseller.
>(I must say I have a hard time believing that.)
>Some other models like linksys WET54G
>have only 60 mWatt from the already limited 100 mWatt allowed.
>
>Hopefully anyone here has a model that suit my needs.
>What I want is :
>...

Consider running third-party firmware (e.g., DD-WRT) in suitable
hardware.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 18:03:59 +0000, Edmund <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
<eadcj2$phs$(E-Mail Removed)>:

>In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, John Navas wrote:
>> On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 14:53:13 +0000, Edmund <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>> <ead1dg$1gs$(E-Mail Removed)>:
>>
>> >After some testing with a PCMCIA wireless network card
>> >I like to have a wireless bridge ( client ) for the same purposes
>> >as the PCMCIA card is used.
>> >No big deal I thought, now I found out, most of these bridges
>> >not nearly have the possibilities as any cheapo PCMCIA card
>> >or USB dongles have.
>>
>> Understandable, because functionality of the cheapo PC Card is provided
>> by host software, not embedded firmware.
>
>Ok, I can see that, how about software that analyse
>a wireless client? I don't think that is to much to ask.

Because much less tight functionality is possible over Ethernet as
compared to a native PC Card interface.

>And why not a scanning mode in a wireless bridge/client
>or whatever they call it.

Presumably the cost of implementation and maintenance, versus low
demand. If there was a real market, then there would undoubtedly be
such products.

>> >An IMHO very elementary option to just scan for available
>> >networks or hotspots show no signals strength or isn't available
>> >at all!?
>> >Some senao models (like 3054) looked promising but these simple
>> >options like showing the signal strength isn't there according a
>> >reseller.
>> >(I must say I have a hard time believing that.)
>> >Some other models like linksys WET54G
>> >have only 60 mWatt from the already limited 100 mWatt allowed.
>> >
>> >Hopefully anyone here has a model that suit my needs.
>> >What I want is :
>> >...
>>
>> Consider running third-party firmware (e.g., DD-WRT) in suitable
>> hardware.
>
>That is an option, do you know of a particular model that
>does what I want with this firmware?

The best course is always to start with the software (firmware in this
case), then pick whatever hardware it takes to run that software
(firmware).

The wikis below have links to principal third-party firmwares. Find
what you want, or contribute to a project if you want something that's
not already been done, and then look at what hardware you need.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

Edmund <(E-Mail Removed)> hath wroth:

>An IMHO very elementary option to just scan for available
>networks or hotspots show no signals strength or isn't available
>at all!?

A WRT54G wireless router can be used as a client bridge. It has a web
based "site survey" feature with a "join" button to connect. It will
also bridge more than one MAC address, which is a useful feature for
connecting more than one PC. I can post screen shots if you want
them. Other alternative firmware Linux distributions have similar
features.

http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php..._Mode_Wireless

You can also scan from the command line using the Linux "wl" command.
From a previous posting:

For example, from my palatial office:
wl ap 0 (turn off access point mode)
wl scan (scan for access points)
wl scanresults (display results)
wl ap 1 (turn access point mode back on)

SSID: "Mariposa's Art"
Mode: Managed RSSI: -89 dBm noise: -99 dBm Channel: 6
BSSID: 00:0D:88:BF:5A:97 Capability: ESS WEP ShortPre ShortSlot
Supported Rates: [ 1(b) 2(b) 5.5(b) 11(b) 6 12 24 36 9 18 48 54 ]

SSID: "CMS"
Mode: Managed RSSI: -75 dBm noise: -93 dBm Channel: 11
BSSID: 00:11:50:0C:92:F7 Capability: ESS WEP ShortSlot
Supported Rates: [ 1(b) 2(b) 5.5(b) 11(b) 18 24 36 54 6 9 12 48 ]
WPA:
multicast cipher: TKIP
unicast ciphers(1): TKIP
AKM Suites(1): WPA-PSK
No WPA Capabilities advertised

http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php?title=Wl_command


>Some other models like linksys WET54G
>have only 60 mWatt from the already limited 100 mWatt allowed.

100mw is only 2.2dB greater than 60mw. You would do better with a
higher gain antenna, than with a power increase. DD-WRT allows you to
increase the xmit power to 250mw. There have been reports of chip
failures at the high end. I would not go over 150mw.

>An OS independent model( HTTP configuration )
>100 mWatt power
>connecting a external directional antenna.
>WEP and WPA
>B and G band
>Scanning for available hotspots or networks.
>See the strength of these networks.
>See what security they use.
>Selectable channels

The WRT54G with DD-WRT will do all this. Do NOT buy the v5 hardware
version.

>preferable working on 12 volts

The WRT54G will run on anything between 4.5VDC and about 18VDC.

>Outdoor models are fine too as long as it isn't twice
>or ten times the price from an indoor model.

Outoor models are 10 times the price because of packaging. Purchase a
NEMA weatherproof box and do your own packaging.

>If there is any analyzing software working with such a wireless bridge
>that should even be better

Scripting is possible with the text mode "wl" command. However, some
of the wireless status command do not work while connected. For
example, you cannot scan for access points while connected.


--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> hath wroth:

>You can also scan from the command line using the Linux "wl" command.
>From a previous posting:

Netstumbler simulation for the WRT54G:
http://www.lecad.uni-lj.si/~leon/oth...ler/index.html
Kinda crude but interesting.

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:27:35 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
<(E-Mail Removed)>:

>Outoor models are 10 times the price because of packaging. ...

In part, but economy of scale is an even bigger part. Specialty
low-volume SKUs have much higher markups than mass market high-volume
SKUs.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, John Navas wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 14:53:13 +0000, Edmund <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> <ead1dg$1gs$(E-Mail Removed)>:
>
> >After some testing with a PCMCIA wireless network card
> >I like to have a wireless bridge ( client ) for the same purposes
> >as the PCMCIA card is used.
> >No big deal I thought, now I found out, most of these bridges
> >not nearly have the possibilities as any cheapo PCMCIA card
> >or USB dongles have.
>
> Understandable, because functionality of the cheapo PC Card is provided
> by host software, not embedded firmware.

Ok, I can see that, how about software that analyse
a wireless client? I don't think that is to much to ask.
And why not a scanning mode in a wireless bridge/client
or whatever they call it.
>
> >An IMHO very elementary option to just scan for available
> >networks or hotspots show no signals strength or isn't available
> >at all!?
> >Some senao models (like 3054) looked promising but these simple
> >options like showing the signal strength isn't there according a
> >reseller.
> >(I must say I have a hard time believing that.)
> >Some other models like linksys WET54G
> >have only 60 mWatt from the already limited 100 mWatt allowed.
> >
> >Hopefully anyone here has a model that suit my needs.
> >What I want is :
> >...
>
> Consider running third-party firmware (e.g., DD-WRT) in suitable
> hardware.

That is an option, do you know of a particular model that
does what I want with this firmware?

In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> Edmund <(E-Mail Removed)> hath wroth:
>
> >An IMHO very elementary option to just scan for available
> >networks or hotspots show no signals strength or isn't available
> >at all!?
>
> A WRT54G wireless router can be used as a client bridge. It has a web
> based "site survey" feature with a "join" button to connect. It will
> also bridge more than one MAC address, which is a useful feature for
> connecting more than one PC. I can post screen shots if you want
> them. Other alternative firmware Linux distributions have similar
> features.

Great is this with the normal firmware or something else?
>
> http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php..._Mode_Wireless
>
> You can also scan from the command line using the Linux "wl" command.
> From a previous posting:
>
> For example, from my palatial office:
> wl ap 0 (turn off access point mode)
> wl scan (scan for access points)
> wl scanresults (display results)
> wl ap 1 (turn access point mode back on)
>
> SSID: "Mariposa's Art"
> Mode: Managed RSSI: -89 dBm noise: -99 dBm Channel: 6
> BSSID: 00:0D:88:BF:5A:97 Capability: ESS WEP ShortPre ShortSlot
> Supported Rates: [ 1(b) 2(b) 5.5(b) 11(b) 6 12 24 36 9 18 48 54 ]
>
> SSID: "CMS"
> Mode: Managed RSSI: -75 dBm noise: -93 dBm Channel: 11
> BSSID: 00:11:50:0C:92:F7 Capability: ESS WEP ShortSlot
> Supported Rates: [ 1(b) 2(b) 5.5(b) 11(b) 18 24 36 54 6 9 12 48 ]
> WPA:
> multicast cipher: TKIP
> unicast ciphers(1): TKIP
> AKM Suites(1): WPA-PSK
> No WPA Capabilities advertised
>
> http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php?title=Wl_command
>
>
> >Some other models like linksys WET54G
> >have only 60 mWatt from the already limited 100 mWatt allowed.
>
> 100mw is only 2.2dB greater than 60mw. You would do better with a
> higher gain antenna, than with a power increase. DD-WRT allows you to
> increase the xmit power to 250mw. There have been reports of chip
> failures at the high end. I would not go over 150mw.

Well that seems perfect, I will be out of office until monday,
then I buy me a WRT54 G if I can find one.
>
> >An OS independent model( HTTP configuration )
> >100 mWatt power
> >connecting a external directional antenna.
> >WEP and WPA
> >B and G band
> >Scanning for available hotspots or networks.
> >See the strength of these networks.
> >See what security they use.
> >Selectable channels
>
> The WRT54G with DD-WRT will do all this. Do NOT buy the v5 hardware
> version.

How can I see which model it is?
>
> >preferable working on 12 volts
>
> The WRT54G will run on anything between 4.5VDC and about 18VDC.
>
> >Outdoor models are fine too as long as it isn't twice
> >or ten times the price from an indoor model.
>
> Outoor models are 10 times the price because of packaging. Purchase a
> NEMA weatherproof box and do your own packaging.
>
> >If there is any analyzing software working with such a wireless bridge
> >that should even be better
>
> Scripting is possible with the text mode "wl" command. However, some
> of the wireless status command do not work while connected. For
> example, you cannot scan for access points while connected.

I will look at it on monday, so I have to dowload some firmware,
then I have to back up the original firmware I think.
These commands you are talking about, can I give such commands
from any OS or do I need linux for that?

Wife is calling I have to go :-)

Thank you

Edmund <(E-Mail Removed)> hath wroth:

>> A WRT54G wireless router can be used as a client bridge. It has a web
>> based "site survey" feature with a "join" button to connect. It will
>> also bridge more than one MAC address, which is a useful feature for
>> connecting more than one PC. I can post screen shots if you want
>> them. Other alternative firmware Linux distributions have similar
>> features.
>
>Great is this with the normal firmware or something else?

It's with alternative firmware. I use DD-WRT. See:
>> http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php..._Mode_Wireless
or
http://www.dd-wrt.com

>Well that seems perfect, I will be out of office until monday,
>then I buy me a WRT54 G if I can find one.

Please read the documentation on the DD-WRT web site first. The
WRT54G v5 model is problem and will barely work. That's all that the
retailers seem to have sitting on their shelves. List of supported
devices:
| http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php...ported_Devices

>> The WRT54G with DD-WRT will do all this. Do NOT buy the v5 hardware
>> version.
>
>How can I see which model it is?

Read the documentation on the web site (i.e. the wiki).
You can tell by the serial number prefix. See:
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrt54g#Hardware_revisions
for a list.

>I will look at it on monday, so I have to dowload some firmware,
>then I have to back up the original firmware I think.

Read the documentation on the wiki on how to install the firmware and
please stop guessing. There's no firmware backup proceedure.
| http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php...s_for_flashing
There are also some oddities and special proceedures for specific
versions and versions.

>These commands you are talking about, can I give such commands
>from any OS or do I need linux for that?

From any OS. I used Windoze "telnet" to connect to the router, log
in, and issue commands. If you have to ask this question, I think you
will have a long learning curve dealing with command line programs.
This may be a bit much for you. Fortunately, the web interface is
adequate for just finding access points and connecting. Here's a
screen shot.
| http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/dd-wrt-site-survey.jpg

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

In message <ead1dg$1gs$(E-Mail Removed)>, Edmund wrote:

Gentlemen,

Thank you for all info, I learned a lot here.
Maybe this is useful for someone else too so here is
what I have got so far.
This is what I was looking for:
-------------------
>
> Hopefully anyone here has a model that suit my needs.
> What I want is :
> Use it as a wireless client to be able to connect to hotspots
> see many abbreviations like P2P multi point and what not.
> I only want an internet connection from hotspots and
> connect this bridge to a network ( router ) so that all
> computers have internet access.
>
> An OS independent model( HTTP configuration )
> 100 mWatt power
> connecting a external directional antenna.
> WEP and WPA
> B and G band
> Scanning for available hotspots or networks.
> See the strength of these networks.
> See what security they use.
> Selectable channels
> preferable working on 12 volts
---------------------

Today I received my Linksys WRT54GL version 1.1
This model must be compatible with the dd-wrt firmware.
I just patched it with the mini dd-wrt firmware and
it looks really neat.
Just to be sure what version firmware I can use I have
to read a little more but so far so good.
Thanks guys!