Free Muni or other hotspot access from a sailboat??

So, the world is migrating to free internet access. Even the NYTimes,
today, has an article on the subject, saying, in effect, "It's not coming,
it's here!" (The first paragraph, in part: "No fewer than 300 cities and
towns around the nation have taken wireless Internet access, or Wi-Fi, to
the people. San Francisco's aim is to make the entire city a hot spot,
Chicago plans to blanket the city with access, and large parts of
Philadelphia are to go wireless soon.")
(http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/06/op...html?th&emc=th)

Many airports, umpteen hotels, and countless other sources intentionally
offer their bandwidth freely. So, please spare me the moralizations and
legal citations about stealing someone's signal as we address the following
technical challenge:

I'll be on a boat full time. I'll be in range, more or less, of lots of
freely available access - such as San Francisco Bay, for example. I want to
be able to sit in the cabin (less signal due to fiberglass, mast, rigging,
etc.) or on deck, and access *WITHOUT WIRES* the available signal(s) on my
laptop.

Where I am now, there are very marginal signals available from several free
sites. There are also stronger signals available from several subscription
sites. So, I need either my external antenna's configuration utility, or my
internal Windoze Zero Configuration utility to be able to specify to which
of the access points I wish to associate my computer. Because I'll be in
differing locales, I'll not know the SSID or MAC addresses in advance.
Likewise, because I have no control over what's used, I have no assurance
that what I have installed will be the same manufacturer's in the AP. So,
requirements that I have the same mfr. gear, or specify SSID or MAC are out.
Likewise, as subscription sites are likely to have more powerful stations,
or just where I am at the time might have such differences, just having the
gear associate with the strongest signal won't get it either.

Previous attempts to find something I could put up the mast, with some minor
amplification to enable returning the signal, and about an 8.5dBi omni
antenna to hear the signal (omni because at anchor one never knows the
direction we'll face, and it changes all the time, and 8.5 because it's
strong enough without having a totally narrow pattern which would limit what
it saw) have failed miserably.

However, I'm reasonably sure that's just because I haven't looked in the
right places. I have a relatively unlimited amount of 12V available to
power this setup, whether POE or directly wired. If it doesn't come that
way, I can put whatever it is in a NEMA waterproof enclosure, keeping it
safe, with the antenna N-mounted to the box or the mast, putting all that
very high up, assuring good range.

So, who knows what I need to accomplish this? Recall that I want to be able
to have my laptop see the shoreside point, through whatever is up the mast,
and be able to communicate with it, in the same fashion as I'd do if I were
in immediate laptop range. Intermediate steps (such as seeing the SSIDs and
manually entering the one I want after selection from what's available) are
acceptable, but definitely not preferred over WZC or the like's point and
click.

I've entertained, but had defective/faulty/somehow not work
ethernet-connected bridges with the same omni 8.5dBi antenna setup associate
but fail to actually pass data, to a station known good as I can (like now)
communicate over it with my USB external antenna. As both of the Senao
2611CB3 Deluxe units I had behaved in that fashion, I assume this is another
case of manufacturer specific or other limiting circumstances, as I (gasp!)
about wore out the owner's manual, and did every possible change, one at a
time, with no success (other than association and the same signal and link
ratios as found on my USB antenna). So, I've given up on those.

Is there a plug-and-play solution to this technical challenge? Anybody done
the equivalent (something free-standing, some distance away from your
laptop, and a very long distance from the selectable AP you're using)?

Thanks for the assistance. We're getting ready to leave, permanently, and
would surely like to be able to access all the free APs now arising.

--
L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
http://tinyurl.com/p7rb4 - NOTE:new URL! The vessel as Tehamana, as we
bought her

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

Skip Gundlach wrote:
> So, the world is migrating to free internet access. Even the NYTimes,
> today, has an article on the subject, saying, in effect, "It's not coming,
> it's here!" (The first paragraph, in part: "No fewer than 300 cities and
> towns around the nation have taken wireless Internet access, or Wi-Fi, to
> the people. San Francisco's aim is to make the entire city a hot spot,
> Chicago plans to blanket the city with access, and large parts of
> Philadelphia are to go wireless soon.")
> (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/06/op...html?th&emc=th)


Typical pointless newspaper article. How could they claim "its here"
when most of those cities are in the thinking about it stage?


>
> Many airports, umpteen hotels, and countless other sources intentionally
> offer their bandwidth freely. So, please spare me the moralizations and
> legal citations about stealing someone's signal as we address the following
> technical challenge:

Actually you posted in a public forum so if you are using it without the
owners permission then what would you call it?


>
> I'll be on a boat full time. I'll be in range, more or less, of lots of
> freely available access - such as San Francisco Bay, for example. I want to
> be able to sit in the cabin (less signal due to fiberglass, mast, rigging,
> etc.) or on deck, and access *WITHOUT WIRES* the available signal(s) on my
> laptop.
>
> Where I am now, there are very marginal signals available from several free
> sites. There are also stronger signals available from several subscription
> sites.

So it sounds like you have an answer already.


So, I need either my external antenna's configuration utility, or my
> internal Windoze Zero Configuration utility to be able to specify to which
> of the access points I wish to associate my computer. Because I'll be in
> differing locales, I'll not know the SSID or MAC addresses in advance.
> Likewise, because I have no control over what's used, I have no assurance
> that what I have installed will be the same manufacturer's in the AP. So,
> requirements that I have the same mfr. gear, or specify SSID or MAC are out.
> Likewise, as subscription sites are likely to have more powerful stations,
> or just where I am at the time might have such differences, just having the
> gear associate with the strongest signal won't get it either.
>
> Previous attempts to find something I could put up the mast, with some minor
> amplification to enable returning the signal, and about an 8.5dBi omni
> antenna to hear the signal (omni because at anchor one never knows the
> direction we'll face, and it changes all the time, and 8.5 because it's
> strong enough without having a totally narrow pattern which would limit what
> it saw) have failed miserably.
>
> However, I'm reasonably sure that's just because I haven't looked in the
> right places. I have a relatively unlimited amount of 12V available to
> power this setup, whether POE or directly wired. If it doesn't come that
> way, I can put whatever it is in a NEMA waterproof enclosure, keeping it
> safe, with the antenna N-mounted to the box or the mast, putting all that
> very high up, assuring good range.
>
> So, who knows what I need to accomplish this? Recall that I want to be able
> to have my laptop see the shoreside point, through whatever is up the mast,
> and be able to communicate with it, in the same fashion as I'd do if I were
> in immediate laptop range. Intermediate steps (such as seeing the SSIDs and
> manually entering the one I want after selection from what's available) are
> acceptable, but definitely not preferred over WZC or the like's point and
> click.
>
> I've entertained, but had defective/faulty/somehow not work
> ethernet-connected bridges with the same omni 8.5dBi antenna setup associate
> but fail to actually pass data, to a station known good as I can (like now)
> communicate over it with my USB external antenna. As both of the Senao
> 2611CB3 Deluxe units I had behaved in that fashion, I assume this is another
> case of manufacturer specific or other limiting circumstances, as I (gasp!)
> about wore out the owner's manual, and did every possible change, one at a
> time, with no success (other than association and the same signal and link
> ratios as found on my USB antenna). So, I've given up on those.
>
> Is there a plug-and-play solution to this technical challenge? Anybody done
> the equivalent (something free-standing, some distance away from your
> laptop, and a very long distance from the selectable AP you're using)?
>
> Thanks for the assistance. We're getting ready to leave, permanently, and
> would surely like to be able to access all the free APs now arising.
>

Thanks so much for the enlightenment and entire disregard for objective.
I'll try to remember your name so I don't waste any more time than this on
you, which doesn't include the very obvious observations which are begging
for view to your comments, left below for the entertainment of archive
readers.

--
L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
http://tinyurl.com/p7rb4 - NOTE:new URL! The vessel as Tehamana, as we
bought her

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

"George" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ...
> Typical pointless newspaper article. How could they claim "its here" when
> most of those cities are in the thinking about it stage?

> Actually you posted in a public forum so if you are using it without the
> owners permission then what would you call it?
>
> So it sounds like you have an answer already.

[POSTED TO alt.internet.wireless - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <c8dc7$448595c8$471f607d$(E-Mail Removed)> on Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:48:32
-0400, "Skip Gundlach" <skipgundlach at gmail dotcom> wrote:

>So, the world is migrating to free internet access. ...

That's a pretty big leap. Time will tell if it spreads, dies, or remains a
niche. The big issue is how to pay for it. Cheap services tend to be, well,
cheap.

>I'll be on a boat full time. I'll be in range, more or less, of lots of
>freely available access - such as San Francisco Bay, for example. I want to
>be able to sit in the cabin (less signal due to fiberglass, mast, rigging,
>etc.) or on deck, and access *WITHOUT WIRES* the available signal(s) on my
>laptop.

See Wi-Fi on sailboats in the Wi-Fi How To below.

>Where I am now, there are very marginal signals available from several free
>sites. There are also stronger signals available from several subscription
>sites. So, I need either my external antenna's configuration utility, or my
>internal Windoze Zero Configuration utility to be able to specify to which
>of the access points I wish to associate my computer. Because I'll be in
>differing locales, I'll not know the SSID or MAC addresses in advance.
>Likewise, because I have no control over what's used, I have no assurance
>that what I have installed will be the same manufacturer's in the AP. So,
>requirements that I have the same mfr. gear, or specify SSID or MAC are out.

Doesn't really matter in any event.

>Likewise, as subscription sites are likely to have more powerful stations,
>or just where I am at the time might have such differences, just having the
>gear associate with the strongest signal won't get it either.

Not usually how it works -- most software, including Windows, make a
connection from a priority list of profiles.

>Previous attempts to find something I could put up the mast, with some minor
>amplification to enable returning the signal, and about an 8.5dBi omni
>antenna to hear the signal (omni because at anchor one never knows the
>direction we'll face, and it changes all the time, and 8.5 because it's
>strong enough without having a totally narrow pattern which would limit what
>it saw) have failed miserably.

Covered in the Wi-Fi How To.

>Is there a plug-and-play solution to this technical challenge? Anybody done
>the equivalent (something free-standing, some distance away from your
>laptop, and a very long distance from the selectable AP you're using)?

There are companies selling packaged solutions, but they're pretty expensive.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_How_To>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

[POSTED TO alt.internet.wireless - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <dfa2$44859ceb$471f607d$(E-Mail Removed)> on Tue, 6 Jun 2006 11:19:01 -0400,
"Skip Gundlach" <skipgundlach at gmail dotcom> wrote:

>Thanks so much for the enlightenment and entire disregard for objective.
>I'll try to remember your name so I don't waste any more time than this on
>you, which doesn't include the very obvious observations which are begging
>for view to your comments, left below for the entertainment of archive
>readers.

Just a thought: You're more likely to get free help you seek if you get the
chip off your shoulder and exercise more restraint.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_How_To>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

I recommend an oudoor short or long range 2.4 GHZ cpe unit. You can buy
one at this place http://store.totalaccess.net online. They range from
179 to 229 based on how far away you want to reach. Then you can plug
this into DC power system of the boat, and simply add a short range
access point so you can wirelessly get internet anywhere on the boat.

Visit there places for examples:
http://www.wirelessworlds.com

well said, John.

"John Navas" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
newsnhhg.784$(E-Mail Removed)...
> [POSTED TO alt.internet.wireless - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <dfa2$44859ceb$471f607d$(E-Mail Removed)> on Tue, 6 Jun 2006
> 11:19:01 -0400,
> "Skip Gundlach" <skipgundlach at gmail dotcom> wrote:
>
>>Thanks so much for the enlightenment and entire disregard for objective.
>>I'll try to remember your name so I don't waste any more time than this on
>>you, which doesn't include the very obvious observations which are begging
>>for view to your comments, left below for the entertainment of archive
>>readers.
>
> Just a thought: You're more likely to get free help you seek if you get
> the
> chip off your shoulder and exercise more restraint.
>
> --
> Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
> John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
> Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_How_To>
> Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

Skip Gundlach wrote:
> So, the world is migrating to free internet access. Even the NYTimes,
> today, has an article on the subject, saying, in effect, "It's not coming,
> it's here!" (The first paragraph, in part: "No fewer than 300 cities and
> towns around the nation have taken wireless Internet access, or Wi-Fi, to
> the people. San Francisco's aim is to make the entire city a hot spot,

<snip>

I'd try the Buffalo AirStation Turbo G High Power Wireless Ethernet
Converter
(http://www.buffalotech.com/products/...&categoryid=29)
and one of their high gain omni-directional antennas mounted on the mast
(http://www.buffalotech.com/products/...&categoryid=8).
You're going to want the shortest distance possible between the Ethernet
converter and the antenna.

With omnidirectional it could be tough. Depending on how much money
you're willing to spend, you might be better off with multiple
directional antennas, connected to multiple Ethernet converters.

"John Navas" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
newsnhhg.784$(E-Mail Removed)...
> [POSTED TO alt.internet.wireless - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
> Just a thought: You're more likely to get free help you seek if you get
> the
> chip off your shoulder and exercise more restraint.


Hi, John, and group,

Given the absolute avalanche of helpful info, I conclude my original
cautions to be right on target.

The chip on my shoulder comes from being very specific in my requests,
including observing what has *not* worked in the past in order to save
effort of those interested in either the outcome or being part of the
solution, on many prior areas of discussion, only to find them either
totally ignored or blatantly flouted.

As I presume responders here are considerably smarter than the average bear,
that infers either stupidity or more rudeness than Boortz. Most of the
other fora, whether mailing list, web forum, usenet or otherwise grouped
interest areas in which I participate have a considerably higher signal to
noise ratio, along with rather more civility, than I've observed here in the
infrequent times I can access the group.

As I was merely asking for those who may have seen a working example of a
solution, not asking for someone to (take the time to) devise a debugging
exercise, nor any more "free help" than "I've seen XYZ work; here's a link",
I didn't think I was being very opportunistic. I certainly wasn't trolling,
nor attempting to generate other than a "Here's something which I know to
work" response.

I've gotten nearly nothing of the sort, or, responses which ignore my
specifications, in fora which (I assumed - silly of me, of course) addressed
this sort of thing. Interestingly, non-technical fora seem to have been
fairly productive of info and leads.

Ah, well.

The question still stands: how to be able to *wirelessly* connect my
computer to a shoreside AP via some sort of mast-top repeater which can pass
through info - and not have as a requirement that it either be manufacturer
specific, nor manually entered SSID info. And, as specified, I'm willing to
manually enter SSID info once displayed if that's what it takes, but would
prefer a point and click solution similar to WZC or the utility I use with
my current (stationary, not needing height, wired - all of which won't be on
the end result) solution.

By this time, of course, with the preceding deafening silence other than to
take me to task, however, I expect none other than opprobium. Should I be
mistaken, I'll be grateful and surprised. Should I be correct ...

.... Well, it will prove the point.

--
L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
http://tinyurl.com/p7rb4 - NOTE:new URL! The vessel as Tehamana, as we
bought her

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

Hi, Steven, and Groups,

"SMS" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:4488475f$0$96934$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> I'd try the Buffalo AirStation Turbo G High Power Wireless Ethernet
> Converter
> (http://www.buffalotech.com/products/...&categoryid=29)
> and one of their high gain omni-directional antennas mounted on the mast
> (http://www.buffalotech.com/products/...&categoryid=8).
> You're going to want the shortest distance possible between the Ethernet
> converter and the antenna.

The solution I tried used a 6" pigtail between the card and the lightning
arrestor/hard mount on the NEMA box, so we have the lossy coax problem
handled.

I've not yet dug into the Buffalo stuff, but prior looks at Buffalo have
them pretty manufacturer specific as to what they'll talk to. Do you know
if they are omni-accepting in this model - and does this act as a repeater
(that is, amplify and send the signal both ways, being transparent to both
ends)?

>
> With omnidirectional it could be tough. Depending on how much money you're
> willing to spend, you might be better off with multiple directional
> antennas, connected to multiple Ethernet converters.

Heh. I'm trying to avoid that sort of thing. The 8.5dBi omni stick I was
testing, alongside my 6.5 directional desktop USB one, saw the same stations
at the same signal strength, so I think that will do - if I can find
something to attach to it!!

Thanks for your input. I'll have a look at the Buffalo; your knowledge in
the above will be appreciated as well.

--
L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
http://tinyurl.com/p7rb4 - NOTE:new URL! The vessel as Tehamana, as we
bought her

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."