Folder redirection slowing down MS Word

Hi all,

We have been testing folder redirection to solve slow logon times on
our network.

I have redirected users "My Documents", "Desktop" and "Application
Data" folders.

Everything works fine (and logons are now much faster). However, users
are now reporting that using MS Office Apps are sluggish. For example,
when opening a Word document they have to wait 15 seconds after the
document appears before they can position the cursor in it or edit it.
Somestimes Word says "not responding".

This is worse when the users are accessing files on redirected folders
which are on a server on a slow 2Mbit WAN link.

However, it is not simply the slow link alone that is the problem as
users without folder redirection enabled do no sufferer from these
problems when accessing Word documents over the 2Mbit link.

This is really having a bad effect on our users abaility to do work and
unless we can solve it we might have to abandon folder redirection.

Has any experienced this problems before? or have heard of it? or know
of any possible solutions?

Any help would be grately appreciated.

We use WinXP, Win2k Server and Office XP.

Regards,

Bruce.

PS Please reply directly to this group as I do not read emails sent to
this address (due to a spam problem).

In news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com,
Codwars <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
> Hi all,
>
> We have been testing folder redirection to solve slow logon times on
> our network.
>
> I have redirected users "My Documents", "Desktop" and "Application
> Data" folders.
>
> Everything works fine (and logons are now much faster). However, users
> are now reporting that using MS Office Apps are sluggish. For example,
> when opening a Word document they have to wait 15 seconds after the
> document appears before they can position the cursor in it or edit it.
> Somestimes Word says "not responding".
>
> This is worse when the users are accessing files on redirected folders
> which are on a server on a slow 2Mbit WAN link.
>
> However, it is not simply the slow link alone that is the problem as
> users without folder redirection enabled do no sufferer from these
> problems when accessing Word documents over the 2Mbit link.
>
> This is really having a bad effect on our users abaility to do work
> and unless we can solve it we might have to abandon folder
> redirection.
>
> Has any experienced this problems before? or have heard of it? or know
> of any possible solutions?
>
> Any help would be grately appreciated.
>
> We use WinXP, Win2k Server and Office XP.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bruce.
>
> PS Please reply directly to this group as I do not read emails sent to
> this address (due to a spam problem).

That's as it should be - the main function of usenet is for everyone to read
along, so replying to the group is the way to go. ;-)

Re speed - I don't redirect Application Data - just My Documents (to the
home directory) and suspect that's the reason you're having this problem. If
the user opens Word without opening a document, is it still slower than
you'd expect? I would imagine so.

Re the WAN link - well, that's just always going to suck, honestly. If
that's a remote office, consider sticking a local file server in there &
look into DFS or something.

I tend to use roaming profiles and redirect only My Documents, and I beat up
my users with a stick if they store stuff on their desktops. They're
(mostly) now sufficiently afraid of me to do it. I have never had any
significant performance problems because of this. Just my $.02

Lanwench [MVP - Exchange] wrote:
> In news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com,
> Codwars <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > We have been testing folder redirection to solve slow logon times on
> > our network.
> >
> > I have redirected users "My Documents", "Desktop" and "Application
> > Data" folders.
> >
> > Everything works fine (and logons are now much faster). However, users
> > are now reporting that using MS Office Apps are sluggish. For example,
> > when opening a Word document they have to wait 15 seconds after the
> > document appears before they can position the cursor in it or edit it.
> > Somestimes Word says "not responding".
> >
> > This is worse when the users are accessing files on redirected folders
> > which are on a server on a slow 2Mbit WAN link.
> >
> > However, it is not simply the slow link alone that is the problem as
> > users without folder redirection enabled do no sufferer from these
> > problems when accessing Word documents over the 2Mbit link.
> >
> > This is really having a bad effect on our users abaility to do work
> > and unless we can solve it we might have to abandon folder
> > redirection.
> >
> > Has any experienced this problems before? or have heard of it? or know
> > of any possible solutions?
> >
> > Any help would be grately appreciated.
> >
> > We use WinXP, Win2k Server and Office XP.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Bruce.
> >
> > PS Please reply directly to this group as I do not read emails sent to
> > this address (due to a spam problem).
>
> That's as it should be - the main function of usenet is for everyone to read
> along, so replying to the group is the way to go. ;-)
>
> Re speed - I don't redirect Application Data - just My Documents (to the
> home directory) and suspect that's the reason you're having this problem. If
> the user opens Word without opening a document, is it still slower than
> you'd expect? I would imagine so.
>
> Re the WAN link - well, that's just always going to suck, honestly. If
> that's a remote office, consider sticking a local file server in there &
> look into DFS or something.
>
> I tend to use roaming profiles and redirect only My Documents, and I beat up
> my users with a stick if they store stuff on their desktops. They're
> (mostly) now sufficiently afraid of me to do it. I have never had any
> significant performance problems because of this. Just my $.02

Thanks for replying. I have already tried not redirecting app data, in
fact it was my first thought as well. However, it didn't make any
difference.

I have also tried not redirecting Desktop and that didn't make any
difference either. The only one I have not tried redirecting is "My
documents".

If we had found that redirecting the desktop was the issue then I our
plan was to change the security on the users' desktop folder so that
they do not have permission to save files onto it.

The problem with "educating users" about not saving files in certain
places is that we are a College and have over 8,000 users.

If we can't get round this folder redirection issue we will probably
give users mandatory profiles (possibly in conjunction with DFS), which
I loathe to do, but slow logon times are a really serious issue here.
In fact, for some users it can take 25 minutes to logon.

Upgrading the 3 WAN links (connecting the 4 sites in a star topology)
will probably be too expensive, altough 2Mbit is looking distinctly
slow in this day and age.

Thanks,

Bruce.

In news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com,
Codwars <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
> Lanwench [MVP - Exchange] wrote:
>> In news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com,
>> Codwars <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> We have been testing folder redirection to solve slow logon times on
>>> our network.
>>>
>>> I have redirected users "My Documents", "Desktop" and "Application
>>> Data" folders.
>>>
>>> Everything works fine (and logons are now much faster). However,
>>> users are now reporting that using MS Office Apps are sluggish. For
>>> example, when opening a Word document they have to wait 15 seconds
>>> after the document appears before they can position the cursor in
>>> it or edit it. Somestimes Word says "not responding".

>>>
>>> This is worse when the users are accessing files on redirected
>>> folders which are on a server on a slow 2Mbit WAN link.
>>>
>>> However, it is not simply the slow link alone that is the problem as
>>> users without folder redirection enabled do no sufferer from these
>>> problems when accessing Word documents over the 2Mbit link.
>>>
>>> This is really having a bad effect on our users abaility to do work
>>> and unless we can solve it we might have to abandon folder
>>> redirection.
>>>
>>> Has any experienced this problems before? or have heard of it? or
>>> know of any possible solutions?
>>>
>>> Any help would be grately appreciated.
>>>
>>> We use WinXP, Win2k Server and Office XP.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Bruce.
>>>
>>> PS Please reply directly to this group as I do not read emails sent
>>> to this address (due to a spam problem).
>>
>> That's as it should be - the main function of usenet is for everyone
>> to read along, so replying to the group is the way to go. ;-)
>>
>> Re speed - I don't redirect Application Data - just My Documents (to
>> the home directory) and suspect that's the reason you're having this
>> problem. If the user opens Word without opening a document, is it
>> still slower than you'd expect? I would imagine so.
>>
>> Re the WAN link - well, that's just always going to suck, honestly.
>> If that's a remote office, consider sticking a local file server in
>> there & look into DFS or something.
>>
>> I tend to use roaming profiles and redirect only My Documents, and I
>> beat up my users with a stick if they store stuff on their desktops.
>> They're (mostly) now sufficiently afraid of me to do it. I have
>> never had any significant performance problems because of this. Just
>> my $.02
>
> Thanks for replying. I have already tried not redirecting app data, in
> fact it was my first thought as well. However, it didn't make any
> difference.
>
> I have also tried not redirecting Desktop and that didn't make any
> difference either. The only one I have not tried redirecting is "My
> documents".

Well, I wouldn't think it's that.

I assume Office is installed with all components set to run from the local
HD, right?
In tools, options, file locations in Word, anything pointing at a network
source you don't expect?

>
> If we had found that redirecting the desktop was the issue then I our
> plan was to change the security on the users' desktop folder so that
> they do not have permission to save files onto it.

This isn't easy, AFAIK...
>
> The problem with "educating users" about not saving files in certain
> places is that we are a College and have over 8,000 users.

Ah - got it.
>
> If we can't get round this folder redirection issue we will probably
> give users mandatory profiles

I was going to suggest that.

> (possibly in conjunction with DFS),
> which I loathe to do, but slow logon times are a really serious issue
> here. In fact, for some users it can take 25 minutes to logon.

Ah - but you didn't mention that. That sounds worse! Event logs? Userenv
errors? Where's the DC authenticating them?
>
> Upgrading the 3 WAN links (connecting the 4 sites in a star topology)
> will probably be too expensive, altough 2Mbit is looking distinctly
> slow in this day and age.

Yep....but do you have DCs in each location? You should...
I think you really want to look into DFS.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bruce.

Lanwench [MVP - Exchange] wrote:
> In news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com,
> Codwars <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
> > Lanwench [MVP - Exchange] wrote:
> >> In news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com,
> >> Codwars <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> We have been testing folder redirection to solve slow logon times on
> >>> our network.
> >>>
> >>> I have redirected users "My Documents", "Desktop" and "Application
> >>> Data" folders.
> >>>
> >>> Everything works fine (and logons are now much faster). However,
> >>> users are now reporting that using MS Office Apps are sluggish. For
> >>> example, when opening a Word document they have to wait 15 seconds
> >>> after the document appears before they can position the cursor in
> >>> it or edit it. Somestimes Word says "not responding".
>
> >>>
> >>> This is worse when the users are accessing files on redirected
> >>> folders which are on a server on a slow 2Mbit WAN link.
> >>>
> >>> However, it is not simply the slow link alone that is the problem as
> >>> users without folder redirection enabled do no sufferer from these
> >>> problems when accessing Word documents over the 2Mbit link.
> >>>
> >>> This is really having a bad effect on our users abaility to do work
> >>> and unless we can solve it we might have to abandon folder
> >>> redirection.
> >>>
> >>> Has any experienced this problems before? or have heard of it? or
> >>> know of any possible solutions?
> >>>
> >>> Any help would be grately appreciated.
> >>>
> >>> We use WinXP, Win2k Server and Office XP.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Bruce.
> >>>
> >>> PS Please reply directly to this group as I do not read emails sent
> >>> to this address (due to a spam problem).
> >>
> >> That's as it should be - the main function of usenet is for everyone
> >> to read along, so replying to the group is the way to go. ;-)
> >>
> >> Re speed - I don't redirect Application Data - just My Documents (to
> >> the home directory) and suspect that's the reason you're having this
> >> problem. If the user opens Word without opening a document, is it
> >> still slower than you'd expect? I would imagine so.
> >>
> >> Re the WAN link - well, that's just always going to suck, honestly.
> >> If that's a remote office, consider sticking a local file server in
> >> there & look into DFS or something.
> >>
> >> I tend to use roaming profiles and redirect only My Documents, and I
> >> beat up my users with a stick if they store stuff on their desktops.
> >> They're (mostly) now sufficiently afraid of me to do it. I have
> >> never had any significant performance problems because of this. Just
> >> my $.02
> >
> > Thanks for replying. I have already tried not redirecting app data, in
> > fact it was my first thought as well. However, it didn't make any
> > difference.
> >
> > I have also tried not redirecting Desktop and that didn't make any
> > difference either. The only one I have not tried redirecting is "My
> > documents".
>
> Well, I wouldn't think it's that.
>
> I assume Office is installed with all components set to run from the local
> HD, right?
> In tools, options, file locations in Word, anything pointing at a network
> source you don't expect?
>

We've already tried this and unfortunately, it didn't make any
difference.

We have also tried:-

Enabling Offline files (auto caching for documents)
Office 2003 (instead of Office XP)
Installing latest SPs and updates (on WinXP, Office XP and Windows 2000
Server)
Disabling AV (on client and server)

> >
> > If we had found that redirecting the desktop was the issue then I our
> > plan was to change the security on the users' desktop folder so that
> > they do not have permission to save files onto it.
>
> This isn't easy, AFAIK...
> >
> > The problem with "educating users" about not saving files in certain
> > places is that we are a College and have over 8,000 users.
>
> Ah - got it.
> >
> > If we can't get round this folder redirection issue we will probably
> > give users mandatory profiles
>
> I was going to suggest that.

I'm not that keen on it because then users wouldn't be able to have
their own settings. Also, we would have to create a new Outlook profile
every time the user logs on (but I don't think this would be too much
of a problem).

>
> > (possibly in conjunction with DFS),
> > which I loathe to do, but slow logon times are a really serious issue
> > here. In fact, for some users it can take 25 minutes to logon.
>
> Ah - but you didn't mention that. That sounds worse! Event logs? Userenv
> errors? Where's the DC authenticating them?

We're confident that this is due to relativly large roaming profiles
having to be transfered over a 2Mbit WAN link when the user logs on.

With folder redirection and excluding unneccesary folders from the
roaming profile (e.g. Cookies and Recent) we can get it down to about
1-3 minutes. Incidently, we noticed some user had over 3,000 cookie
files, which needed to be downloaded every time they logged on.

Basically, the College has 4 sites in the City. Some staff are based
perminantly at one site but there are other staff, particularily
lecturers, who may need to logon at more than one site during the week
(to teach there).

The sites are connected together with 2Mbit WAN links. If the tutor has
their roaming profile on a server at site A then logging on at site A
is fine (even with a large roaming profile). However, if they are asked
to teach at site B, C or D then their roaming profile has to be
transfered over a 2Mbit link.

There are 2 DCs are each site, so I don't think authentication is an
issue.

> >
> > Upgrading the 3 WAN links (connecting the 4 sites in a star topology)
> > will probably be too expensive, altough 2Mbit is looking distinctly
> > slow in this day and age.
>
> Yep....but do you have DCs in each location? You should...
> I think you really want to look into DFS.

Yes.

We wondered if we could replicate every users roaming profile to the
fileserver at each site. The idea is that when a user logs on it
downloads their roaming profile from the local fileserver (using DFS).
This would bring it's own problems. For example, each file server would
need to hold 4 times the data than they do currently.

One other possibility is to move over to "thin client" computing (e.g.
Citrix or Terminal Services) so the only data that needs to be
transfered across the WAN links is screen updates. But that would be a
big undertaking.

As you can see, we are really keen on solving this problem with folder
direction, if only we could get it to would work properly.

Thanks for your suggestions so far.

Bruce.


> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bruce.

In news:(E-Mail Removed) ups.com,
Codwars <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
<snip>

>> I assume Office is installed with all components set to run from the
>> local HD, right?
>> In tools, options, file locations in Word, anything pointing at a
>> network source you don't expect?
>>
>
> We've already tried this and unfortunately, it didn't make any
> difference.

Drat.

>
> We have also tried:-
>
> Enabling Offline files (auto caching for documents)
> Office 2003 (instead of Office XP)
> Installing latest SPs and updates (on WinXP, Office XP and Windows
> 2000 Server)
> Disabling AV (on client and server)
>
<snip>

>>>
>>> If we can't get round this folder redirection issue we will probably
>>> give users mandatory profiles
>>
>> I was going to suggest that.
>
> I'm not that keen on it because then users wouldn't be able to have
> their own settings. Also, we would have to create a new Outlook
> profile every time the user logs on (but I don't think this would be
> too much of a problem).

No, you can create a profile for each user, set it up as you wish (including
Outlook), and then make it mandatory by renaming ntuser.dat to ntuser.man -
you'd need to use roaming profiles for this to work, tho.
>
>>
>>> (possibly in conjunction with DFS),
>>> which I loathe to do, but slow logon times are a really serious
>>> issue here. In fact, for some users it can take 25 minutes to logon.
>>
>> Ah - but you didn't mention that. That sounds worse! Event logs?
>> Userenv errors? Where's the DC authenticating them?
>
> We're confident that this is due to relativly large roaming profiles
> having to be transfered over a 2Mbit WAN link when the user logs on.

Youch.
>
> With folder redirection and excluding unneccesary folders from the
> roaming profile (e.g. Cookies and Recent) we can get it down to about
> 1-3 minutes. Incidently, we noticed some user had over 3,000 cookie
> files, which needed to be downloaded every time they logged on

Purge them automatically so they don't stick around?
>
> Basically, the College has 4 sites in the City. Some staff are based
> perminantly at one site but there are other staff, particularily
> lecturers, who may need to logon at more than one site during the week
> (to teach there).
>
> The sites are connected together with 2Mbit WAN links. If the tutor
> has their roaming profile on a server at site A then logging on at
> site A is fine (even with a large roaming profile). However, if they
> are asked to teach at site B, C or D then their roaming profile has
> to be transfered over a 2Mbit link.
>
> There are 2 DCs are each site, so I don't think authentication is an
> issue.

Nope.
>
>>>
>>> Upgrading the 3 WAN links (connecting the 4 sites in a star
>>> topology) will probably be too expensive, altough 2Mbit is looking
>>> distinctly slow in this day and age.
>>
>> Yep....but do you have DCs in each location? You should...
>> I think you really want to look into DFS.
>
> Yes.
>
> We wondered if we could replicate every users roaming profile to the
> fileserver at each site. The idea is that when a user logs on it
> downloads their roaming profile from the local fileserver (using DFS).
> This would bring it's own problems. For example, each file server
> would need to hold 4 times the data than they do currently.
>
> One other possibility is to move over to "thin client" computing (e.g.
> Citrix or Terminal Services) so the only data that needs to be
> transfered across the WAN links is screen updates. But that would be a
> big undertaking.

That sounds like a *far* better idea to me.... best one so far. Why such a
big undertaking, outside of the initial cost & time to set up?
>
> As you can see, we are really keen on solving this problem with folder
> direction, if only we could get it to would work properly.
>
> Thanks for your suggestions so far.

I'm sorry I can't fix this with my mind. I can see it must be frustrating as
___.

>
> Bruce.
>
>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Bruce.