Fiber to the (premises | home | building) in London?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_to_the_x

I've heard bad things about Virgin but who else is there?

I'd like a symmetric connection faster than 10Mbps, 2 or 3 IP addresses,
preferably static, other normal stuff like email and hosting's not so
important as I can probably do that myself.

I'm probably after a business connection, who do you all recommend.

Thanks.

bob wrote:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_to_the_x
>
> I've heard bad things about Virgin but who else is there?
>
> I'd like a symmetric connection faster than 10Mbps, 2 or 3 IP addresses,
> preferably static, other normal stuff like email and hosting's not so
> important as I can probably do that myself.
>
> I'm probably after a business connection, who do you all recommend.
>
What costs ios getti8n the fibre in. The rets is just like any other ISP.

I think for actual fibre there are about three operators in London.
BT of course, used to be Metronet and cable and wireless I think. But
this knowledge is many years old.

Try a decent technical IPSP like Claranet, IDNET and the like for advice.


> Thanks.

"Andy Burns" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) o.uk...
> bob wrote:
>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_to_the_x
>>
>> I've heard bad things about Virgin but who else is there?
>>
>> I'd like a symmetric connection faster than 10Mbps,
>
> How deep are your pockets?
>
> http://aa.nu/ethernet.html




it actually quotes for my oxfordshire postcode - albeit at about 30 grand a
year for what i'd want - wonder if they could really do it ?



--
Gareth.

that fly...... is your magic wand....

The dog from that film you saw wrote:
>
> "Andy Burns" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed) o.uk...
>> bob wrote:
>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_to_the_x
>>>
>>> I've heard bad things about Virgin but who else is there?
>>>
>>> I'd like a symmetric connection faster than 10Mbps,
>>
>> How deep are your pockets?
>>
>> http://aa.nu/ethernet.html
>
>
>
>
> it actually quotes for my oxfordshire postcode - albeit at about 30
> grand a year for what i'd want - wonder if they could really do it ?
>
>
>
Of course they can.

I'd say in london a symmetric 10Mbps would about 12-15k annual. For zero
contention. Essentially its a high speed link to an ISPs boundary router
with your very own interface on it.And a router of some expense in your
premises as well.

I believe that 'ethernet' style connections are also available.

Have a look here..

http://www.uk.clara.net/networks/lea...e-and-ethernet

Any big ISP can do this, but these tend not to be that 'off the shelf'
products really..

They can quantify the cost at their end, but fibre to your premises
depends very largely in who, if anyone, goes 'past your door'

If no one does, you have to use BT., and they charge installation, and
generally a per kilometre fee from the nearest fibre hub.

As long as you accept that you are unlikely to get away with less than
10k annually, its all very doable.

"bob" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:7kKRl.75351$(E-Mail Removed)...
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_to_the_x
>
> I've heard bad things about Virgin but who else is there?
>
> I'd like a symmetric connection faster than 10Mbps, 2 or 3 IP addresses,
> preferably static, other normal stuff like email and hosting's not so
> important as I can probably do that myself.
>
> I'm probably after a business connection, who do you all recommend.
>
> Thanks.

Depending on where in London you are you may be able to get service from:

www.urbanwimax.co.uk or fibre from www.edgetelecom.co.uk

Paul

Ato_Zee wrote:
>> I've heard bad things about Virgin but who else is there?
>>
>> I'd like a symmetric connection faster than 10Mbps, 2 or 3 IP addresses,
>> preferably static, other normal stuff like email and hosting's not so
>> important as I can probably do that myself.
>>
>> I'm probably after a business connection, who do you all recommend.
>
> When buying dedicated fibre connections there is only limited
> choice, that is whoever has fibre in the locality.
> In certain locations you can play one against another, BT,
> C&W, Telewest/Virgin.
> You will need a deep pocket.
> A fibre termination rack, plus modem, plus battery backup
> in base of rack doesn't come cheap. Think 10k.
> If it's a substantial business with a 6 or 7 figure annual
> comms spend, like a call centre, online gaming, etc
> a microwave dish might be provided as an alternative
> to fibre.

Er no. BT will guarantee a service: How they deliver it is simply down
to their cost accounting.

> The 2 or 3 static IP addresses might be a problem.
> For a small business and only 10Mbps Virgin might
> be the only affordable offer.

On Sat, 23 May 2009 11:36:55 GMT, "Ato_Zee" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>
>> I've heard bad things about Virgin but who else is there?
>>
>> I'd like a symmetric connection faster than 10Mbps, 2 or 3 IP addresses,
>> preferably static, other normal stuff like email and hosting's not so
>> important as I can probably do that myself.
>>
>> I'm probably after a business connection, who do you all recommend.
>
>When buying dedicated fibre connections there is only limited
>choice, that is whoever has fibre in the locality.
>In certain locations you can play one against another, BT,
>C&W, Telewest/Virgin.
>You will need a deep pocket.
>A fibre termination rack, plus modem, plus battery backup
>in base of rack doesn't come cheap. Think 10k.
>If it's a substantial business with a 6 or 7 figure annual
>comms spend, like a call centre, online gaming, etc
>a microwave dish might be provided as an alternative
>to fibre.

i work for a carrier, so i dont want to specify any particular ISP.

the responses so far seem to be mixing 2 different things, fibre /
point to point microwave access and then using it for an Internet
feed.

Fibre access is easy for a carrier with local plumbing (note only a
few have large fibre networks and your ISP may be renting access from
BT / C&W / VM / Colt / Global Crossing etc). If the fibre is there the
carrier may well deliver lots of services on it.

Note if you need dual feeds for whatever reason (normally resilience)
then you can expect to pay more - and since the carrier(s) normally
builds the cheapest 1st, the 2nd one can be really expensive.

point to point microwave is fairly painless - if you have a building
with the right structure, right to use the roof & erect something to
carry the dish, line of sight to a site equipped to support it from
the relevant carrier (or maybe to a mast they can rent from a
mastspace supplier) and the right licence is available (since the pt -
pt bands seem to be clogged in some parts of the country).
- so in practice fairly rare

Costs more to run than fibre since someone has to pay the licence but
pretty reliable if designed properly.
Can support Ethernet or SDH, and kit is "out there" for up to 622 Mbps
(max 100 / 155 Mbps seems more common).

Fibre has long reach + high bandwidth (carriers limit the "last hop"
distance due to risks of faults, but it will be 10s of Km).
However someone has to have a duct in place & all the wayleaves to get
there - that can make it very easy or prohibitively expensive /
impossible to install depending on location.
Geography also gets in the way sometimes (eg Scottish Islands).

Lots of business style ISPs support internet access over a higher
speed access link - the preferred choice (in terms of Mbps per £k/yr
for symmetric service) depends on bandwidth and possibly contention
(or lack of it).

Highest available speed is 10 Gbps (you can get more, but AFAICT they
would be delivered as 10G x n).

>The 2 or 3 static IP addresses might be a problem.
>For a small business and only 10Mbps Virgin might
>be the only affordable offer.

If you get a business feed it will normally come with an address block
if you ask (or if they cannot do this, they arent a real business
ISP?).
--
Regards

(E-Mail Removed) - replace xyz with ntl

Thanks everyone for your replies, sorry for the high latency in this
communication protocol, I'm currently in Singapore.

bob wrote:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_to_the_x
>
> I've heard bad things about Virgin but who else is there?

From the replies I gather that Virgin aren't FTTH or FTTB anyway, but
their website seems to imply it is, which is it, does anyone know?

> I'd like a symmetric connection faster than 10Mbps, 2 or 3 IP addresses,
> preferably static, other normal stuff like email and hosting's not so
> important as I can probably do that myself.

It also sounds like it depends very much on where you are, this is my
Fathers house right by Victoria station so I've been assuming everyone
and his grandmother would have glass in the ground nearby.

> I'm probably after a business connection, who do you all recommend.

I assumed the installation and equipment cost would be quite high in the
order of a grand or 2 given my proximity to the exchange box, but what's
surprising me is the running costs, those aaisp people are quoting 4.5
grand a year.

The reasons for this are several fold, basically there are sometimes 8
people sharing the current ADSL connection and by the time you've got a
couple of video streams (BBC iplayer etc..) going it grinds to a halt,
also we hit our download limit with the delightful plusnet halfway
through he month, I can't wait to get rid of them.

I'm currently based in Singapore and I'd like to have a well connected
email / web / game / backup server so I'll pay some of the bill, also
I'd like to be able tunnel in and watch BBC iplayer and/or have a UK
mythtv box myself.

The budget is about 80 quid a month so it seems like Virgin is the only
option, do we know if they block ports? Particularly 22, 80, 143, 993?

Thanks for the help

On Sun, 24 May 2009 10:53:20 +0800, bob wrote:

> From the replies I gather that Virgin aren't FTTH or FTTB anyway, but
>their website seems to imply it is, which is it, does anyone know?

Virgin are FTTH where they have the street cabled but use BT ADSL lines
where not.

>The reasons for this are several fold, basically there are sometimes 8
>people sharing the current ADSL connection and by the time you've got a
>couple of video streams (BBC iplayer etc..) going it grinds to a halt,
>also we hit our download limit with the delightful plusnet halfway
>through he month, I can't wait to get rid of them.

Have you thought about multiple ADSL lines? If you go AAISP they can
bond them for incoming. I think you would need a cable router to
reassemble the packets when they come in, or their firebrick. You would
need a firebrick to bond outgoing but check the model. I think it can
only manage about 13meg/sec but there is a faster one coming out if
it's not already out. I would have thought you could get a decent
ADSL2+ speed in Victoria.

>The budget is about 80 quid a month so it seems like Virgin is the only
>option, do we know if they block ports? Particularly 22, 80, 143, 993?

That should cover you for a couple of ADSL lines at least depending on
which package you get. AAISP have limits at peak times, 9am to 6pm,
then limits at off peak but they start at 50gb per month and rise for
the more expensive packages and then there is some time where there is
no limit at all and that might fit in with your times from Singapore.
They have no limit on upload, only downloads. They can supply lines for
ADSL only and there are discounts for multiple lines on the same
account at the same premises but you have to remember to take into
account the line rentals as well as the ADSL cost.

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk

On Sun, 24 May 2009 08:57:04 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

>bob wrote:
>
>> From the replies I gather that Virgin aren't FTTH or FTTB anyway
>
>That's right, their adverts make a big point of it being "fibre optic
>broadband" but the fibre certainly doesn't enter your building, probably
>not even your street.

Of course, it's coax that enters the building, ignore my comment about
it being FTTH. I sometimes forget the important bit :-)

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk