External telephone wiring and ADSL

I have 2 BT lines/numbers into my house .... one has ADSL enabled on it,
one doesn't.

I need to run both lines out to a new summerhouse in the garden, I _do
not_ want to go down any wireless options (DECT, wireless networks,
routers et al)

I can of course run 2 separate cables from each BT Master Socket in the
house (which are literally side by side) conduited along the route the
cable needs to take, terminating in the usual (B&Q, Homebase etc) BT
type sockets at the other end, however, I fear this will be both time
consuming and more costly, as I have to consider conduit purchase and
fixing. Given my DIY drilling skills, I can't also imagine the conduit
will be level along its length!

Thus, I have found this site :

http://www.tlc-
direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Cable_Index/Telephone_Cable_External/

(http://tinyurl.com/ajkjk)

.... which shows (as I see it) 10 different wires (5 pairs)

Am I right I could effectively wire both lines down this cable, and not
have any issues with my voice or ADSL lines, so long as I give due
consideration to ADSL filtering etc?

To all intents and purposes, I'm just adding another telephone extension
for each line (not adding any more kit incidentally, REN value taken
into consideration) which I would like to run down one specific cable.

Is this that cable? Is 5 pairs enough? Only 3 wires are used per
extension aren't they?

TIA.

On Mon, 30 May 2005 21:40:03 +0100, RolYat
<newsaccount@-removethis-hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>
>I have 2 BT lines/numbers into my house .... one has ADSL enabled on it,
>one doesn't.
>
>I need to run both lines out to a new summerhouse in the garden, I _do
>not_ want to go down any wireless options (DECT, wireless networks,
>routers et al)
>
[snip]

It is assumed that only a couple of telephones are to be installed in the
summerhouse and that you don't intend to use the telephone service to connect
a modem at the remote end. In which case it seems suprising that you won't
consider the use of DECT phones which seem the obvious solution.

I wonder about the telephone cable you have selected; it seems odd that there
is no mechnical protection to the "service wires" which would suggest that it
is not designed to be burried. If it was not buried relatively deeply it
could be very easily be damaged.

David Bradley

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
RolYat <newsaccount@-removethis-hotmail.co.uk> writes:
>
>I have 2 BT lines/numbers into my house .... one has ADSL enabled on it,
>one doesn't.
>
>I need to run both lines out to a new summerhouse in the garden, I _do
>not_ want to go down any wireless options (DECT, wireless networks,
>routers et al)

What sort of distance are we talking about here?

>I can of course run 2 separate cables from each BT Master Socket in the
>house (which are literally side by side) conduited along the route the
>cable needs to take, terminating in the usual (B&Q, Homebase etc) BT
>type sockets at the other end, however, I fear this will be both time
>consuming and more costly, as I have to consider conduit purchase and
>fixing. Given my DIY drilling skills, I can't also imagine the conduit
>will be level along its length!

Personally, I would not run any Cat 3 cable anywhere nowadays.
I would put in a number of Cat 5e runs, which you can use for
phone or network (and an increasing number of other purposes).

>Thus, I have found this site :
>
>http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...able_External/
>
>(http://tinyurl.com/ajkjk)
>
>.... which shows (as I see it) 10 different wires (5 pairs)
>
>Am I right I could effectively wire both lines down this cable, and not
>have any issues with my voice or ADSL lines, so long as I give due
>consideration to ADSL filtering etc?

It should work OK.

>To all intents and purposes, I'm just adding another telephone extension
>for each line (not adding any more kit incidentally, REN value taken
>into consideration) which I would like to run down one specific cable.
>
>Is this that cable? Is 5 pairs enough? Only 3 wires are used per
>extension aren't they?

Actually, you should run only 1-pair per extension over a shared
cable like this, interconnecting pins 2 and 5 only, and use master
sockets rather than extension sockets at the far end to recreate
the bell wire on pin 3.

You need to think where your ADSL filter(s) go. You could have one
filter at the BT master socket handling all the extensions and
carry the ADSL signal in a 3rd pair, although the premises cable
total length might degrade the ADSL signal more than multiple ADSL
filters would.

However, as I said earlier, I would run a number of Cat5e cables
rather than running any Cat 3.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"RolYat" <newsaccount@-removethis-hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> I have 2 BT lines/numbers into my house .... one has ADSL enabled on it,
> one doesn't.
>
> I need to run both lines out to a new summerhouse in the garden, I _do
> not_ want to go down any wireless options (DECT, wireless networks,
> routers et al)
>
> I can of course run 2 separate cables from each BT Master Socket in the
> house (which are literally side by side) conduited along the route the
> cable needs to take, terminating in the usual (B&Q, Homebase etc) BT
> type sockets at the other end, however, I fear this will be both time
> consuming and more costly, as I have to consider conduit purchase and
> fixing. Given my DIY drilling skills, I can't also imagine the conduit
> will be level along its length!
>
> Thus, I have found this site :
>
> http://www.tlc-
> direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Cable_Index/Telephone_Cable_External/
>
> (http://tinyurl.com/ajkjk)
>
> ... which shows (as I see it) 10 different wires (5 pairs)
>
> Am I right I could effectively wire both lines down this cable, and not
> have any issues with my voice or ADSL lines, so long as I give due
> consideration to ADSL filtering etc?
>
> To all intents and purposes, I'm just adding another telephone extension
> for each line (not adding any more kit incidentally, REN value taken
> into consideration) which I would like to run down one specific cable.
>
> Is this that cable? Is 5 pairs enough? Only 3 wires are used per
> extension aren't they?
>
> TIA.
>
You need a good quality twisted-pair cable, or CAT5 if you can get it, and
make sure that all connections are tight. Try not to make tight bends in
the cable if a natural bend can be made. So don't hammer it in to corners.

Twisted pair cable can be any amount of pairs, and the best one to choose is
up to you on price. If wiring as an extension from the master sockets, then
you will need ringer wiring to the two new sockets as well as line wiring.
Which means three wires instead of two. So it might be best to buy two
master sockets from Screwfix or other, and wire the new extensions as direct
line from the original master sockets.

For the ADSL, try to make the wiring in two of the pairs, and make the pairs
the closest together in the bundle. So, if the red/white and blue/white are
the closest together, then use both of these pairs. Wire them as if two
individual pairs, but wire them to the same connections in the boxes, if you
get my meaning. Don't separate the single wires of the pairs.

The telephone voice line can be left on one pair. So it depends on what you
mean to do at the extension site, and if you want to wire as direct line
from the master sockets (recommended), or as completely separate extensions
with ringer wiring.

Search the web for "UK telephone wiring standard" for a few good hits on the
subject.

On Mon, 30 May 2005 21:40:03 +0100, RolYat
<newsaccount@-removethis-hotmail.co.uk> wrote:


>Is this that cable? Is 5 pairs enough? Only 3 wires are used per
>extension aren't they?

Indeed it is - but I'd be inclined to use only one pair per line
(using terminals 2 and 5) and put master sockets at the end. On the
ADSL line the ADSL filter will probably include a ringing capacitor
anyway so a normal slave socket will probably be sufficient.

The reason for using only a single pair per line is that the single
pair balanced line is quite immune to interference, adding the third
ringing line makes it a bit more susceptible to noise/crosstalk.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, newsaccount@-
removethis-hotmail.co.uk says...
>
> I have 2 BT lines/numbers into my house .... one has ADSL enabled on it,
> one doesn't.
>
> I need to run both lines out to a new summerhouse in the garden, I _do
> not_ want to go down any wireless options (DECT, wireless networks,
> routers et al)
>
> I can of course run 2 separate cables from each BT Master Socket in the
> house (which are literally side by side) conduited along the route the
> cable needs to take, terminating in the usual (B&Q, Homebase etc) BT
> type sockets at the other end, however, I fear this will be both time
> consuming and more costly, as I have to consider conduit purchase and
> fixing. Given my DIY drilling skills, I can't also imagine the conduit
> will be level along its length!
>
> Thus, I have found this site :
>
> http://www.tlc-
> direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Cable_Index/Telephone_Cable_External/
>
> (http://tinyurl.com/ajkjk)
>
> ... which shows (as I see it) 10 different wires (5 pairs)
>
> Am I right I could effectively wire both lines down this cable, and not
> have any issues with my voice or ADSL lines, so long as I give due
> consideration to ADSL filtering etc?
>
> To all intents and purposes, I'm just adding another telephone extension
> for each line (not adding any more kit incidentally, REN value taken
> into consideration) which I would like to run down one specific cable.
>
> Is this that cable? Is 5 pairs enough? Only 3 wires are used per
> extension aren't they?
>
> TIA.
>
>
>
>
Not quite a solution, but a suggestion might be to get yourself an SOHO
pbx, such as the BT Revelation which will take both lines into it, and
give you 6 extensions to play with. Then you need only run one extension
to the summerhouse, and 5 more to other parts of the house.

The fax detection stuff is kind of handy as well if one of those lines
is predominatley used to recieve faxes on as it can redirect it to your
fax machine without ringing the other extensions.
--
Alex Threlfall
Cyberprog New Media
www.cyberprog.net
tel - 0870 446 0789
fax - 0870 446 1789

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
(E-Mail Removed) ...

> It is assumed that only a couple of telephones are to be installed in the
> summerhouse and that you don't intend to use the telephone service to connect
> a modem at the remote end. In which case it seems suprising that you won't
> consider the use of DECT phones which seem the obvious solution.

The problem is .... the ADSL line is the line that *must* run to the
summerhouse, as this is into what the router will plug.

I will also be using one of the lines for a FAX sending service via the
PC.

The 2nd line /could/ be DECT, but this would mean the base unit (there
is only the base and one handset) would remain indoors some distance
away. Convenience factor equals put it on the desk in front of me i'm
afraid, and running it down the same cable seemed a good idea.

> I wonder about the telephone cable you have selected; it seems odd that there
> is no mechnical protection to the "service wires" which would suggest that it
> is not designed to be burried. If it was not buried relatively deeply it
> could be very easily be damaged.

It won't be buried ... it will be 'pinned' to the side of a house, and
then run along the side bearer of some decking. Very inaccessible, and
very unlikely to suffer damage from digging et al.

If it is a suited cable that will be sited away from potential damage
issues, then is it the right one?

In article <429b85d4$0$38038$(E-Mail Removed)>,
(E-Mail Removed) ...


> What sort of distance are we talking about here?

Pass. I haven't measured accurately, but less than 50 metres.

> Personally, I would not run any Cat 3 cable anywhere nowadays.
> I would put in a number of Cat 5e runs, which you can use for
> phone or network (and an increasing number of other purposes).

The proposed cable is for phone, albeit ADSL as well.
No networking at all.

Simple telephone extensions, but to an outside location, hence why I
want the right cable, and cable I can hopefully run 2 lines down.

> Actually, you should run only 1-pair per extension over a shared
> cable like this, interconnecting pins 2 and 5 only, and use master
> sockets rather than extension sockets at the far end to recreate
> the bell wire on pin 3.

ah .... enter confusion.

> You need to think where your ADSL filter(s) go. You could have one
> filter at the BT master socket handling all the extensions and
> carry the ADSL signal in a 3rd pair, although the premises cable
> total length might degrade the ADSL signal more than multiple ADSL
> filters would.
>
> However, as I said earlier, I would run a number of Cat5e cables
> rather than running any Cat 3.

Multiple cables .... messy, conduit, costly. maybe?

In article <YYLme.42475$(E-Mail Removed) >,
spam.guard@_spam_guard.com ...
>
> "RolYat" <newsaccount@-removethis-hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> >
> > I have 2 BT lines/numbers into my house .... one has ADSL enabled on it,
> > one doesn't.
> >
> > I need to run both lines out to a new summerhouse in the garden, I _do
> > not_ want to go down any wireless options (DECT, wireless networks,
> > routers et al)
> >
> > I can of course run 2 separate cables from each BT Master Socket in the
> > house (which are literally side by side) conduited along the route the
> > cable needs to take, terminating in the usual (B&Q, Homebase etc) BT
> > type sockets at the other end, however, I fear this will be both time
> > consuming and more costly, as I have to consider conduit purchase and
> > fixing. Given my DIY drilling skills, I can't also imagine the conduit
> > will be level along its length!
> >
> > Thus, I have found this site :
> >
> > http://www.tlc-
> > direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Cable_Index/Telephone_Cable_External/
> >
> > (http://tinyurl.com/ajkjk)
> >
> > ... which shows (as I see it) 10 different wires (5 pairs)
> >
> > Am I right I could effectively wire both lines down this cable, and not
> > have any issues with my voice or ADSL lines, so long as I give due
> > consideration to ADSL filtering etc?
> >
> > To all intents and purposes, I'm just adding another telephone extension
> > for each line (not adding any more kit incidentally, REN value taken
> > into consideration) which I would like to run down one specific cable.
> >
> > Is this that cable? Is 5 pairs enough? Only 3 wires are used per
> > extension aren't they?
> >
> > TIA.
> >
> You need a good quality twisted-pair cable, or CAT5 if you can get it, and
> make sure that all connections are tight. Try not to make tight bends in
> the cable if a natural bend can be made. So don't hammer it in to corners.
>
> Twisted pair cable can be any amount of pairs, and the best one to choose is
> up to you on price. If wiring as an extension from the master sockets, then
> you will need ringer wiring to the two new sockets as well as line wiring.
> Which means three wires instead of two. So it might be best to buy two
> master sockets from Screwfix or other, and wire the new extensions as direct
> line from the original master sockets.
>
> For the ADSL, try to make the wiring in two of the pairs, and make the pairs
> the closest together in the bundle. So, if the red/white and blue/white are
> the closest together, then use both of these pairs. Wire them as if two
> individual pairs, but wire them to the same connections in the boxes, if you
> get my meaning. Don't separate the single wires of the pairs.
>
> The telephone voice line can be left on one pair. So it depends on what you
> mean to do at the extension site, and if you want to wire as direct line
> from the master sockets (recommended), or as completely separate extensions
> with ringer wiring.
>
> Search the web for "UK telephone wiring standard" for a few good hits on the
> subject.

These are extensions, as in what is currently six foot away from the
current master sockets via two cables. I want to run the same down one
cable, over a greater distance ...... do I truly have to be *that*
fussy?

"BigWallop" <spam.guard@_spam_guard.com> wrote in message
news:YYLme.42475$(E-Mail Removed). uk...
>
> "RolYat" <newsaccount@-removethis-hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
> For the ADSL, try to make the wiring in two of the pairs, and make the
> pairs
> the closest together in the bundle. So, if the red/white

You were doing well until the "red/white" pair...a wee brainfreeze?
(orange/white Shirley?)