What exactly counts towards monthly usage allowance?

Does anyone know for sure how ISPs typically total up their customers
monthly usage? I am trying to find out whether things like TCP and IP
headers are included in the totals, and perhaps other overheads (data
sent over an Ethernet network gets yet another set of headers, for
example). How about things like ICMP packets (pings) and
retransmission of bad data - does it all count? It would be
interesting to know - anyone have any insider info?
thanks!
Rob

"rob" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
Does anyone know for sure how ISPs typically total up their customers
monthly usage? I am trying to find out whether things like TCP and IP
headers are included in the totals, and perhaps other overheads (data
sent over an Ethernet network gets yet another set of headers, for
example). How about things like ICMP packets (pings) and
retransmission of bad data - does it all count? It would be
interesting to know - anyone have any insider info?
thanks!
Rob

Everthing that goes up or down your phone line is counted!

**SS**

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 13:40:42 -0000, "SecretSquiddle"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Everthing that goes up or down your phone line is counted!
>
>**SS**

Thanks for your answer SS - is that an educated guess, or do you know
for sure that its the case somehow? AFAIK the protocol used for ISP to
user transfer is PPP which does some compression on the contents of
the data I think - so I guess the total would be after compression
had taken place, making it very hard for a user to calculate their
usage, since they only see that data once it has been unpacked from
the PPP packet and delivered to the TCP/IP stack.

rob wrote:

> Does anyone know for sure how ISPs typically total up their customers
> monthly usage? I am trying to find out whether things like TCP and IP
> headers are included in the totals, and perhaps other overheads...

The information, AFAIK, comes from BT Wholesale records (see notes on
how the usage is collected for use by AAISP - see www.aa.nu and their
notes on traffic being counted). ATM overheads too, no doubt...


> How about things like ICMP packets (pings) and retransmission of
> bad data - does it all count?

Is the Pope a Catholic ? The data goes down the line, so even pings
and retransmissions will be counted. I guess those who're worst off
would be the ones taken over some PAYG quota, eg getting a few dozen
bytes that cause you to be charged for a further 2 GB at 4 quid !!

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 14:32:29 +0000, Peter M <us-(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>The information, AFAIK, comes from BT Wholesale records (see notes on
>how the usage is collected for use by AAISP - see www.aa.nu and their
>notes on traffic being counted). ATM overheads too, no doubt...

Thanks a lot Peter, not the answer I wanted but I'll have to live with
it! I am the author of a freeware bandwidth meter, and some users have
noted large difference between the totals recorded by my application
and the usage figures reported by their ISPs, looks like I have found
the cause!
regards
Rob

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 13:33:58 +0000, rob <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Does anyone know for sure how ISPs typically total up their customers
> monthly usage? I am trying to find out whether things like TCP and IP
> headers are included in the totals, and perhaps other overheads (data
> sent over an Ethernet network gets yet another set of headers, for
> example). How about things like ICMP packets (pings) and
> retransmission of bad data - does it all count? It would be
> interesting to know - anyone have any insider info?
> thanks!
> Rob

Hi Rob,

I can't spak for how other ISP's work this out but as far as PlusNet are
concerned the data comes to us through RADIUS and counts every byte that
is transferred between you and us; whether that's TCP/IP traffic or LCP
data and ATM overheads it all gets counted in the total.


With Regards,

Dave,
--
| Dave Tomlinson Broadband Solutions For
| Comms Team for Home & Business
| PlusNet plc @ http://www.plus.net
+ ----- My Referrals - It pays to recommend PlusNet -----

rob wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 13:40:42 -0000, "SecretSquiddle"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Everthing that goes up or down your phone line is counted!
>>
>> **SS**
>
> Thanks for your answer SS - is that an educated guess, or do you
> know
> for sure that its the case somehow? AFAIK the protocol used for ISP
> to
> user transfer is PPP which does some compression on the contents of
> the data I think - so I guess the total would be after compression
> had taken place, making it very hard for a user to calculate their
> usage, since they only see that data once it has been unpacked from
> the PPP packet and delivered to the TCP/IP stack.

AFAIK there isn't a lot of compression on the data packets normally &
some ISP's even count incoming ICMPS on your usage (30Mb in a period
of 48 hours without even having a PC turned on on one occasion). As
the previous poster said, anything which is carried by your twisted
pair counts & to add to that it doesn't matter what your local usage
meter says the ISP's is correct & even more so if incorrect

> > Does anyone know for sure how ISPs typically total up their customers
> > monthly usage? I am trying to find out whether things like TCP and IP
> > headers are included in the totals, and perhaps other overheads (data
> > sent over an Ethernet network gets yet another set of headers, for
> > example). How about things like ICMP packets (pings) and
> > retransmission of bad data - does it all count? It would be
> > interesting to know - anyone have any insider info?
> > thanks!
> > Rob
>
> Hi Rob,
>
> I can't spak for how other ISP's work this out but as far as PlusNet are
> concerned the data comes to us through RADIUS and counts every byte that
> is transferred between you and us; whether that's TCP/IP traffic or LCP
> data and ATM overheads it all gets counted in the total.


They are all wrong really, it depends on the ISP if you use Zen nothing
counts towards quotas as there is no limits to download/upload.

Caps are a silly idea anyway and are just used by poor ISP's to make more
profit and get more customers, then when in a contract change the T&C to
make more profit.

I think if the contract is for a year then it should be a years notice to
change to change T&C, but that would not worry Zen internet as they only use
monthly contracts.

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 17:21:27 -0000, in uk.telecom.broadband , "It's
Me" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Caps are a silly idea anyway and are just used by poor ISP's to make more
>profit and get more customers, then when in a contract change the T&C to
>make more profit.

Amusing concept.

I don't suppose caps could have anything to do with the capacity of
the ISP's systems, could it? Just a thought.
Mark McIntyre
--

> They are all wrong really, it depends on the ISP if you use Zen nothing
> counts towards quotas as there is no limits to download/upload.

For which you pay a large premium with Zen. A light user with a 2M
connection to Zen is paying more than twice the average for that facility.
Those users are subsidising the high volume users.

> Caps are a silly idea anyway and are just used by poor ISP's to make more
> profit and get more customers, then when in a contract change the T&C to
> make more profit.

The reality is that some 95% of Broadband users get nowhere near the caps
imposed by most ISPs. It is simply a matter of commercial realism that heavy
users have to pay more if it is economic for the ISP to cover their costs
let alone make a profit.

> I think if the contract is for a year then it should be a years notice to
> change to change T&C, but that would not worry Zen internet as they only
> use
> monthly contracts.

Not realistic in a fast changing marketplace. Most ISP's are at the mercy of
BT and their changing charges. BT are moving much more towards pricing that
is dependant on the amount of data carried instead of flat rates per user.
There is no way that an ISP can absorb that change without putting a limit
on the data or charging more.

Peter Crosland