establishing a network in a loooong house

Hi, I'm flummoxed, nice to meet you....- can anyone help?

I live in a long house (40m) with three computers. The router is at on
end with one computer, a pc. A self-made ethernet cable runs through th
loft to another computer, a mac. It works fine. Recently my girlfrien
moved in, bringing her laptop pc. Intending to eventually run a secon
lead through the loft, I first tried her laptop out on my long lead
The network connections window didn't recognise the connection
although all worked fine when I connected the laptop to the router wit
a 1m ethernet cable. Since then I have tried out the pcs with a variet
of cables - a bought 25m one, a self-made 15m one and a self-made 10
one, all to no avail (however with the shortest cable, the pcs registe
its existence but can't establish IP addresses). The mac, of course
works on all three.

So...what can I do to get my girlfriend's computer working 40m from th
router? I can move the router halfway, but I still have the problem tha
neither pc recognises the existence of a 20m cable. Should I give up an
move to a house that isn't absurdly long, force her to renounce the evi
bill gates, or go the wireless route (although from what I understand
40m is way too long a distance for this option to be worth pursuing
and in any case none of the computers have wireless cards, making thi
option a triple headache). I'm hoping there's a magic button somewher
for the sole purpose of solving this very irritating problem.

Let me know

Pet


--
Pete Flood

On 2006-09-26, Pete Flood <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> its existence but can't establish IP addresses). The mac, of course,
> works on all three.
>
> So...what can I do to get my girlfriend's computer working 40m from the
> router? I can move the router halfway, but I still have the problem that

If you think the problem is really related to the PCs and the
long cable you could try attaching a switch to the end of the
long cable and pluging the PC into the switch with a short
cable.

I have trouble believing the PCs won't drive a 25m cable, however.
I vaguely recall the 100baseT standard being good for 100 meters,
and I've had a 150m run work okay until I got around to replacing
it with fibre.

Dennis Ferguson

> I live in a long house (40m) with three computers. The router is at
> one end with one computer, a pc. A self-made ethernet cable runs
> through the loft to another computer, a mac. It works fine. Recently
> my girlfriend moved in, bringing her laptop pc. Intending to
> eventually run a second lead through the loft, I first tried her
> laptop out on my long lead. The network connections window didn't
> recognise the connection, although all worked fine when I connected
> the laptop to the router with a 1m ethernet cable. Since then I have
> tried out the pcs with a variety of cables - a bought 25m one, a
> self-made 15m one and a self-made 10m one, all to no avail (however
> with the shortest cable, the pcs register its existence but can't
> establish IP addresses). The mac, of course, works on all three.
>
> So...what can I do to get my girlfriend's computer working 40m from
> the router? I can move the router halfway, but I still have the
> problem that neither pc recognises the existence of a 20m cable.
> Should I give up and move to a house that isn't absurdly long, force
> her to renounce the evil bill gates, or go the wireless route
> (although from what I understand, 40m is way too long a distance for
> this option to be worth pursuing, and in any case none of the
> computers have wireless cards, making this option a triple headache).
> I'm hoping there's a magic button somewhere for the sole purpose of
> solving this very irritating problem.

When you say "self-made" ethernet cable do you mean you did not use the
proper CAT5 cable? If so it is almost certainly the problem. The other thing
is did you route the cable well away from any other wring in particular
mains cable? A proper ethernet cable with correct terminations is good for
at least 200m and more.

Peter Crosland

On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:13:21 +0100, "Peter Crosland"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>When you say "self-made" ethernet cable do you mean you did not use the
>proper CAT5 cable? If so it is almost certainly the problem. The other thing
>is did you route the cable well away from any other wring in particular
>mains cable? A proper ethernet cable with correct terminations is good for
>at least 200m and more.

Fluorescent lighting cable runs should be avoided like the plague IMHO
but it sounds to me like this is just a case of a badly made cable?

--
John Naismith

Ermm having read this again it sounds like its a crossover cable issue
to me. Mac works, laptop doesn't on the SAME cable.
--
John Naismith

"John Naismith" <john$(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Ermm having read this again it sounds like its a crossover cable issue
> to me. Mac works, laptop doesn't on the SAME cable.
> --
> John Naismith

Try changing the nic connection rate, try lowering the 100 full duplux to 10
it might help...

Gaz

In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Pete Flood
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>
>Hi, I'm flummoxed, nice to meet you....- can anyone help?
>
>I live in a long house (40m) with three computers. The router is at one
>end with one computer, a pc. A self-made ethernet cable runs through the
>loft to another computer, a mac. It works fine. Recently my girlfriend
>moved in, bringing her laptop pc. Intending to eventually run a second
>lead through the loft, I first tried her laptop out on my long lead.
>The network connections window didn't recognise the connection,
>although all worked fine when I connected the laptop to the router with
>a 1m ethernet cable. Since then I have tried out the pcs with a variety
>of cables - a bought 25m one, a self-made 15m one and a self-made 10m
>one, all to no avail (however with the shortest cable, the pcs register
>its existence but can't establish IP addresses). The mac, of course,
>works on all three.
>
>So...what can I do to get my girlfriend's computer working 40m from the
>router? I can move the router halfway, but I still have the problem that
>neither pc recognises the existence of a 20m cable. Should I give up and
>move to a house that isn't absurdly long, force her to renounce the evil
>bill gates, or go the wireless route (although from what I understand,
>40m is way too long a distance for this option to be worth pursuing,
>and in any case none of the computers have wireless cards, making this
>option a triple headache). I'm hoping there's a magic button somewhere
>for the sole purpose of solving this very irritating problem.
>
>Let me know
>
>Pete
>
>
>
>

Have you tried coiling the long cables up and using them with the
devices fairly close together. Does this work? If it does then the
problem is probably a serious source of interference on the route.

What speed does the Mac connect at? 10M or 100M?

If you force the PC to connect at 10M does it work? WinPC's don't seem
to drop back to 10 if 100 doesn't work. I suspect the auto-negotiation
signals get through OK, but the real traffic (being faster?) fails. But
the link "thinks" it has agreed 100M.

I, like the others suspect the cables (not sure about the problem with
the bought cable ). I had a similar problem a few months ago trying to
cable a long run.

To minimise hole size in the walls they had run (good quality) bare Cat5
cable and then terminated once it was in situ. The link would work if I
forced it to 10M, but would fail at 100M. But they had terminated the
pairs to pins 1&2,3&4,5&6,7&8. They SHOULD be wired so that
pins goto twisted pair
1&2 1
3&6 2 <-Note
4&5 3 <-Note
7&8 4

Full details are at

http://www.datalinkcom.net/rj45_pinout_wiring.html
http://www.hw-server.com/ethernet#twisted_conn

If the pairs are not connected to the correct pins, the signal is in
effect travelling down untwisted wiring one wire from each of two pairs
- it will work at 10M , but not at 100 over any distance

Why the commercially made up cable doesn't work, I have no idea. It
could just be a bad cable, or as someone suggested its wired as a
crossover.

Regards


--
Peter R Cook

"Pete Flood" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> Hi, I'm flummoxed, nice to meet you....- can anyone help?
>
> I live in a long house (40m) with three computers. The router is at one
> end with one computer, a pc. A self-made ethernet cable runs through the
> loft to another computer, a mac. It works fine. Recently my girlfriend
> moved in, bringing her laptop pc. Intending to eventually run a second
> lead through the loft, I first tried her laptop out on my long lead.
> The network connections window didn't recognise the connection,
> although all worked fine when I connected the laptop to the router with
> a 1m ethernet cable. Since then I have tried out the pcs with a variety
> of cables - a bought 25m one, a self-made 15m one and a self-made 10m
> one, all to no avail (however with the shortest cable, the pcs register
> its existence but can't establish IP addresses). The mac, of course,
> works on all three.

Golden rule of installing fixed cable - multiply the qty by at least 3.....
(1 to work, 1 for a spare, and 1 for the stuff you forgot)
>
> So...what can I do to get my girlfriend's computer working 40m from the
> router? I can move the router halfway, but I still have the problem that
> neither pc recognises the existence of a 20m cable. Should I give up and
> move to a house that isn't absurdly long, force her to renounce the evil
> bill gates, or go the wireless route (although from what I understand,
> 40m is way too long a distance for this option to be worth pursuing,
> and in any case none of the computers have wireless cards, making this
> option a triple headache). I'm hoping there's a magic button somewhere
> for the sole purpose of solving this very irritating problem.

"official" spec for 100 Base-Tx on Cat5 is 90m of fixed wiring and 10m of
patch leads - but the spec is pretty conservative and you can expect
reliable working at 150 to 200m in a typical setup.

With better cable or running at 10M then maybe a fair bit further if you
want to push your luck

if it doesnt work @ 40m then something is wrong - not using the correct
pairs so that the noise cancellation within the pairs is a very common
reason.
With a homemade cable you also may have used the wrong cable type.

if you are looking for alternatives, then wireless may work (depending on
good antennas and minimal walls etc to damage the signal) - but you would be
on the edge of the feasible.

1 thought - only 20m if you put a wireless router in the centre.......

finally - power line networking sends signals thru the mains - you should be
able to get several Mbps over Homeplug style kit - just make sure you get
devices suitable for UK 240v.
>
> Let me know
>
> Pete
>
>
>
>
> --
> Pete Flood
--
Regards

(E-Mail Removed) - replace xyz with ntl

"Pete Flood" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> Hi, I'm flummoxed, nice to meet you....- can anyone help?
>
> I live in a long house (40m) with three computers. The router is at one
> end with one computer, a pc. A self-made ethernet cable runs through the
> loft to another computer, a mac. It works fine. Recently my girlfriend
> moved in, bringing her laptop pc. Intending to eventually run a second
> lead through the loft, I first tried her laptop out on my long lead.
> The network connections window didn't recognise the connection,
> although all worked fine when I connected the laptop to the router with
> a 1m ethernet cable. Since then I have tried out the pcs with a variety
> of cables - a bought 25m one, a self-made 15m one and a self-made 10m
> one, all to no avail (however with the shortest cable, the pcs register
> its existence but can't establish IP addresses). The mac, of course,
> works on all three.
>

Is the bought cable straight through or cross over?.
Which scheme did you use to make up the cables?

e.g. http://www.vpi.us/standard.html

Have you tried the laptop on another router, or another laptop on your
router....


> So...what can I do to get my girlfriend's computer working 40m from the
> router? I can move the router halfway, but I still have the problem that
> neither pc recognises the existence of a 20m cable. Should I give up and
> move to a house that isn't absurdly long, force her to renounce the evil
> bill gates, or go the wireless route (although from what I understand,
> 40m is way too long a distance for this option to be worth pursuing,
> and in any case none of the computers have wireless cards, making this
> option a triple headache). I'm hoping there's a magic button somewhere
> for the sole purpose of solving this very irritating problem.
>
> Let me know
>
> Pete
>
>
>
>
> --
> Pete Flood