E-petition

Another Post just to keep the messge fresh. Computer active have said
that ofcom are doing something now and that this is the 24th largest
petition currently. Lets try and make it No. 1 on that list. Please
sign it and let other people know about it via forums and other places
where people are likley to be interest. In anycase this will be greato
for consumers with the propose typical rate would mean that ISP's
would be competing there so they would probablly invest more in
equipment and ditch ADSLv1 for Adsl v2

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Crystalclear/?showall=1

naza wrote:

> Another Post just to keep the messge fresh. Computer active have said
> that ofcom are doing something now and that this is the 24th largest
> petition currently. Lets try and make it No. 1 on that list.

It's a shame it's about totally the wrong thing.

I suppose this is what 'dumbing down' has brought us to.

Graham

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 10:20:39 -0700, naza <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Another Post just to keep the messge fresh. Computer active have said
>that ofcom are doing something now and that this is the 24th largest
>petition currently. Lets try and make it No. 1 on that list. Please
>sign it and let other people know about it via forums and other places
>where people are likley to be interest. In anycase this will be greato
>for consumers with the propose typical rate would mean that ISP's
>would be competing there so they would probablly invest more in
>equipment and ditch ADSLv1 for Adsl v2
>
>http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Crystalclear/?showall=1


No ISP wants to invest - they only want to make as much money as
possible out of UK citizens. All the competition in the UK is either
French, German, Italian or Spanish, all backed by taxpayers money from
their country of origin. BT have to compete with one hand tied behind
their back, they are not allowed to compete like for like in any
country whose ISP's come to the UK to cream off profits,
Get real

jim

> It's a shame it's about totally the wrong thing.
>
> I suppose this is what 'dumbing down' has brought us to.

Explain?

naza wrote:

> > It's a shame it's about totally the wrong thing.
> >
> > I suppose this is what 'dumbing down' has brought us to.
>
> Explain?

The REAL problem that most people have with their ISP isn't the 'speed limit' on
their ADSL connection to the exchange but rather what happens (or rather doesn't
hapen) when the ISP get their hands on their mucky data.

It's about CAPACITY and related congestion/contention not the speed of the adsl
link, mostly.

Graham

Eeyore wrote:

> naza wrote:
>
>> > It's a shame it's about totally the wrong thing.
>> >
>> > I suppose this is what 'dumbing down' has brought us to.
>>
>> Explain?
>
> The REAL problem that most people have with their ISP isn't the 'speed
> limit' on their ADSL connection to the exchange but rather what happens
> (or rather doesn't hapen) when the ISP get their hands on their mucky
> data.
>
> It's about CAPACITY and related congestion/contention not the speed of the
> adsl link, mostly.

Why would compelling ISPs to provide figures on real-world throughput
conflict with that?

--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ((E-Mail Removed))
08:27:51 up 11 days, 10:16, 2 users, load average: 0.05, 0.07, 0.02
09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0

naza wrote:

> In anycase this will be greato
> for consumers with the propose typical rate would mean that ISP's
> would be competing there so they would probablly invest more in
> equipment and ditch ADSLv1 for Adsl v2

....which they're already doing. Just wait until 21CN results in regional
pricing, then you'll have something to piss and moan about.

--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ((E-Mail Removed))
08:33:30 up 11 days, 10:21, 2 users, load average: 0.10, 0.10, 0.04
09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0

alexd wrote:

> Eeyore wrote:
> > naza wrote:
> >
> >> > It's a shame it's about totally the wrong thing.
> >> >
> >> > I suppose this is what 'dumbing down' has brought us to.
> >>
> >> Explain?
> >
> > The REAL problem that most people have with their ISP isn't the 'speed
> > limit' on their ADSL connection to the exchange but rather what happens
> > (or rather doesn't hapen) when the ISP get their hands on their mucky
> > data.
> >
> > It's about CAPACITY and related congestion/contention not the speed of the
> > adsl link, mostly.
>
> Why would compelling ISPs to provide figures on real-world throughput
> conflict with that?

That's not what the petition calls for. It's excessively vague and simply begs
another 'cop-out'.

Graham

Eeyore wrote:

>
>
> alexd wrote:
>
>> Eeyore wrote:

>> > It's about CAPACITY and related congestion/contention not the speed of
>> > the adsl link, mostly.
>>
>> Why would compelling ISPs to provide figures on real-world throughput
>> conflict with that?
>
> That's not what the petition calls for. It's excessively vague and simply
> begs another 'cop-out'.

Sorry to bang on about this, but I'm obviously missing something. What part
of:

# We think Ofcom should oblige ISPs to provide clear information about the
# actual speed they are likely to receive in the form of a 'typical rate'

conflicts with what you're saying?

--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ((E-Mail Removed))
12:38:40 up 11 days, 14:27, 2 users, load average: 0.12, 0.09, 0.08
09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0

alexd wrote:

> Eeyore wrote:
> > alexd wrote:
> >> Eeyore wrote:
>
> >> > It's about CAPACITY and related congestion/contention not the speed of
> >> > the adsl link, mostly.
> >>
> >> Why would compelling ISPs to provide figures on real-world throughput
> >> conflict with that?
> >
> > That's not what the petition calls for. It's excessively vague and simply
> > begs another 'cop-out'.
>
> Sorry to bang on about this, but I'm obviously missing something. What part
> of:
>
> # We think Ofcom should oblige ISPs to provide clear information about the
> # actual speed they are likely to receive in the form of a 'typical rate'
>
> conflicts with what you're saying?

Because the petition reads thus ......

" We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to instruct Ofcom to force ISPs
to advertise a typical rate for broadband subscriptions, not just a theoretical
'maximum' rate"

Now 'maximum rate' applies only to the local loop section of the connection and
not the throughput the ISP can deliver, so as such, I read it as being a
petition about the 'wrong thing'. You can't change the physics of long lines and
the connection speed you get with ADSL wil always be heavily influenced by your
distance from the exchange. The Prime Minister can do nothing about that.

However you might have a connection synching at 8128kbps like I have with a
7150kbps profile yet only get say 500kbps sustained date rate from the ISP. Now
*THAT* is where the problem really lies yet the petition isn't worded to address
that issue in a meaningful way.

These are 2 very separate issues.

Graham