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To everyone interested in Draytek Vigor products.

I signed up to their UK support forum (which granted had an agreement which
said I had to own a Vigor router) and posted a pre-purchase question. Each
time, the post, along with the account that posted it was deleted within a
few hours with no explanation...

I looked at the rules for the board and noticed an e-mail address for any
questions about moderation of the forum. This is also the e-mail address for
pre-sale queries supposedly.

I sent an e-mail to this address kindly asking why my account and posts were
pulled with no explanation suggesting it wasn't good for their business and
if they had left the post there, and I got a response to my post, I would be
more likely to buy the router.

However, I got a nasty e-mail warning me off using the forum unless I had
explicit written permission. At the same time I e-mailed technical questions
about the router which were ignored even though they said in this e-mail
they would respond to pre-sale queries.

I replied to this e-mail saying that's hardly a business like way to respond
to a potential customer who could also direct more business towards them, in
terms of recommendations etc. I also pointed out that one of their
competitors, solwise, who also have forums but don't delete such questions
may win my deciding purchase at the end of the day.

I wasn't being abusive on their forum. They have nothing to lose and
everything to gain from allowing me to ask pre-purchase question. The
questions I asked were rather technical and I would have appreciated a
impatial response from an existing customer or maybe even a response from an
Admin or Moderator. I asked the questions in other forums with no
informative response, yet I e-mail them the questions and get a nasty
response telling me to stay away from the forums with the questions ignored.

I'm not very impressed and as for whether I will buy a Draytek router now I
doubt it....

Draytek routers may well be good but this kind of support leaves little to
be desired unfortunately.

Draytek, listen up here!

Gosh, now I've aired my grievances with Draytek UK. Do I feel better? Not
really!

"David Lindsay" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:NYOa5WCa5xT$Ews$@clara.net...
> X-no-archive: yes
> In article <bim8ag$ap64j$(E-Mail Removed)>, tHatDudeUK
> <(E-Mail Removed)> writes
> >To everyone interested in Draytek Vigor products.
> >
> >I signed up to their UK support forum (which granted had an agreement
which
> >said I had to own a Vigor router) and posted a pre-purchase question.
Each
> >time, the post, along with the account that posted it was deleted within
a
> >few hours with no explanation...
>
> Its a peer to peer technical newsgroup (asfaik) and asking peoples views
> about the Draytek performance is probably off topic.
> The forum looks pretty good to me and on that basis I plan to buy a
> Draytek. Its nice to know that there is a lifeline. Why don't you get a
> DLink, now that's good customer service (hint of sarcasm).

I could have asked the questions saying I own a Dratek router blah de blah
does it do this and my posts wouldn't be pulled.

Solwise's support doesn't seem to bad but the router set-up seems a little
complex and there seems to be perhaps a little less traffic on their forum
than the Draytek one.

I got a nice e-mail anyway today. Apparently they have users with 62db loss
on the line (possibly more unreported). Is this good considering I'm on the
outer range for ADSL at my exchange?

tHatDudeUK enlightened the world by saying on 29/08/2003 01:55:

> To everyone interested in Draytek Vigor products.
>
<snip>

Funny, the EXACT same thing happened to me yesterday, posted a pre-sale
question, it got deleted...

I am now wondering if they have "something to hide".

To everyone...

I will be getting a wireless router when my exchange gets enabled in a
couple of months.

WAS thinking of a Vigor 2600We, what other options are there. It needs
to do uPNP. Is the Drayteck still the way to go (I can get them cheap
through work, and works out about £130 all in for the 2600We)

Thanks.

Zapp Brannigan wrote:
> tHatDudeUK enlightened the world by saying on 29/08/2003 01:55:
>
>> To everyone interested in Draytek Vigor products.
>>
> <snip>
>
> Funny, the EXACT same thing happened to me yesterday, posted a
> pre-sale question, it got deleted...
>
> I am now wondering if they have "something to hide".
>
> To everyone...
>
> I will be getting a wireless router when my exchange gets enabled in a
> couple of months.
>
> WAS thinking of a Vigor 2600We, what other options are there. It
> needs to do uPNP. Is the Drayteck still the way to go (I can get
> them cheap through work, and works out about £130 all in for the
> 2600We)

I have a Vigor 2600we and I am very happy with it.

I use the forum and have also reported technical issues to the SEG team in
the UK and got a rapid and helpful response from them.

A minor but important (to me) technical issue that involved a change to the
provided software was fixed within 10 days of being reported . I think this
is pretty good compared with other companies to whom I have reported such
issues.

Brian Gladman

"Zapp Brannigan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:KIG3b.962$(E-Mail Removed)...
> I am now wondering if they have "something to hide".

That's what I thought.

> WAS thinking of a Vigor 2600We, what other options are there. It needs
> to do uPNP. Is the Drayteck still the way to go (I can get them cheap
> through work, and works out about £130 all in for the 2600We)

The draytek does UPNP AFAIK but be aware the Wireless end can only do
11mbps. This is only a problem if you're connecting more than 5 or so
wirelessly though or if you need to wirelessly transfer large files. Fastest
current standard is 54mbps and you could simply add a wireless access point
of this calibre to a non-wireless router.

How much would it cost you to get hold of the 2600 (ie. non-wireless.)? You
may be able to make some money from your advatageous position as the 2600
alone is just over £140 (cheapest place I can find, www.dslsource.co.uk )
;-)

When I get my student loan in september I'd be happy to give you £150 for
the wireless one and possibly £120-130 for the wired one if your source is
legitimate. (Even though this probably isn't enough of a profit margin to
make you interested in selling me one.)

On 29/8/03 1:55 am, in article bim8ag$ap64j$(E-Mail Removed),
"tHatDudeUK" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> I signed up to their UK support forum (which granted had an agreement which
> said I had to own a Vigor router) and posted a pre-purchase question. Each
> time, the post, along with the account that posted it was deleted within a
> few hours with no explanation...

There is your answer ..... In your own words. You signed an agreement
knowing it was not true and therefore they are very much entitled to thro
posts off - they could of course take it further for misrepresentation but
they won't bother.

FWIW, my 2600X has been utterly super these past three months and the Forum
(for us real owners) was very helpful in solving a "how to...." bunch of
questions.

Next time you ant to buy a car, and you go into the service department and
bother them with sales type questions, don't be surprised when they turf you
out to a salesman.

"Dave G" <Dave (E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:3f4f60d4$0$247$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Not a bad plan but what if the product has a fault... or develops one
within
> the warranty period. My first 2600 arrived rattling like a very rattly
> thing... could have been a loose component, could have been a bit of
solder
> or plastic... either way I wasn't prepared to take the shrink-wrap off and
> use it... Buying from a reputable supplier meant that it could be replaced
> within 2 days.

I am led to believe you can return them directly to Draytek should there be
a problem but I'm guessing if it arrives damaged (rather than ends up)
they'd rather you return it to the retailer....

"Graham in Melton" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:BB75410C.136C9%(E-Mail Removed)...
> Next time you ant to buy a car, and you go into the service department and
> bother them with sales type questions, don't be surprised when they turf
you
> out to a salesman.

This is quite differnt though. Here's a forum with loads of Draytek owners
who should be more than happy to reply to specific questions about the
product. I had no problem with the Solwise forum and as Zapp says it makes
you wonder if there's something to be hiding... My questions were technical
and weren't something silly like "is the Draytek Vigor 2600 a good router?"
as that wouldn't answer my questions.

Most people ignore agreements these days anyhow. If you spend £600 or
whatever on Microsoft Office, you have a little agreement saying blah de
blah de blah, if we take everything literally we can disagree with this
agreement and then return it to the retailer for a prompt refund (as you
don't agree with the EULA which you couldn't read until you put the CD in)
unfortunately most retailers will see refunding for software as a big no no
meaning you have no choice what you can and can't agree with. As for info
about cars I'd spend time looking in public forums and the like, websites
and asking questions. When I felt I was ready to buy I'd write up a list of
questions, if any, and ask the sales man. I'd rather ask a big pool of
people who own the product first though before considering getting it.

Ok I don't own a Draytek router but IMO it makes sense to allow a forum to
allow pre-sales queries. It's my preferred method of obtaining independent
clarification of issues... If I asked the people who sell them or make them
they'll possibly say yes does this, does that, makes your evening meal etc
whereas a end user will be more aimed at the real facts... Maybe I'm just
too used to public forums. When all you have to do to access the forum is
click agree then there's a place to ask loads of questions and hundreds of
Vigor users it just makes it too easy. If it said please insert the serial
number of your router I'd be stumped...

In terms of me buying a car neways insurance would cost me more than my
student bus pass for the year which gets me all across West Yorks on Bus or
Train so I know which I'll prefer to use for a while. These damn rich
students who own cars (or maybe it's their parents.) Lol, sorry for OT...

tHatDudeUK enlightened the world by saying on 29/08/2003 13:24:
> "Zapp Brannigan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:KIG3b.962$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>>I am now wondering if they have "something to hide".
>
>
> That's what I thought.
>
>
>>WAS thinking of a Vigor 2600We, what other options are there. It needs
>>to do uPNP. Is the Drayteck still the way to go (I can get them cheap
>>through work, and works out about £130 all in for the 2600We)
>
>
> The draytek does UPNP AFAIK but be aware the Wireless end can only do
> 11mbps. This is only a problem if you're connecting more than 5 or so
> wirelessly though or if you need to wirelessly transfer large files. Fastest
> current standard is 54mbps and you could simply add a wireless access point
> of this calibre to a non-wireless router.
>
> How much would it cost you to get hold of the 2600 (ie. non-wireless.)? You
> may be able to make some money from your advatageous position as the 2600
> alone is just over £140 (cheapest place I can find, www.dslsource.co.uk )
> ;-)
>
> When I get my student loan in september I'd be happy to give you £150 for
> the wireless one and possibly £120-130 for the wired one if your source is
> legitimate. (Even though this probably isn't enough of a profit margin to
> make you interested in selling me one.)

Sorry, not an option.. Could get into trouble...

On 29/8/03 6:34 pm, in article bio2rv$ankif$(E-Mail Removed),
"tHatDudeUK" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> This is quite different though. Here's a forum with loads of Draytek owners
> who should be more than happy to reply to specific questions about the
> product.

Yeah, but the users don¹t pay directly for the upkeep of the forum and
Draytek do ...

Doesn¹t avoid the fact that its THEIR FORUM for people who have spent money
with them.. They set the rules and he ignored them.

Doesn¹t avoid the fact, he made a false statement to gain access,,, and so
suffers the consequences. He has no grounds to complain - its like nicking
something from a shop and then going back to complain about it !

This NG is precisely the right sort of place to discuss views, rather than
one clearly spelled out for Purchasers only.

I guess they have a view that they only want to help out people who have
actually spent money on them and not run a general purpose Forum for what
will undoubtedly end up as a general pro's and con's discussion.

Nobody forced him to agree to the terms of access and he knew he was lying.

Try that with the Taxman !