domain vs workgroup...

Can I set up a server in a workgroup type environment & share files, control
access to files, etc., just like in a domain environment?
I have a client who has 15-20 XP Home machines & has finally decided that
they need a server, as sharing files between 15-20 computers has become
quite a hassle!

--
The intelligent man wins his battles with pointed words.
I'm sorry -- I meant sticks. Pointed sticks.

If you have over 10 workstations, you should think about setup a domain
network. Also please be informed that the XP Home can't join the domain.
However, they should be able to access the domain resources if they logon
using the domain user ID.

--
Bob Lin, MS-MVP, MCSE & CNE
Networking, Internet, Routing, VPN Troubleshooting on
http://www.ChicagoTech.net
How to Setup Windows, Network, VPN & Remote Access on
http://www.HowToNetworking.com


"Mike" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Can I set up a server in a workgroup type environment & share files,
> control access to files, etc., just like in a domain environment?
> I have a client who has 15-20 XP Home machines & has finally decided that
> they need a server, as sharing files between 15-20 computers has become
> quite a hassle!
>
> --
> The intelligent man wins his battles with pointed words.
> I'm sorry -- I meant sticks. Pointed sticks.
>

> Can I set up a server in a workgroup type environment & share files,
> control access to files, etc., just like in a domain environment?

If you could do that there would be no difference between a workgroup and a
domain.

> I have a client who has 15-20 XP Home machines & has finally decided that
> they need a server, as sharing files between 15-20 computers has become
> quite a hassle!

Essentially they are in a workgroup now. If it's a hassle now managing them,
adding one more machine to manage is not going to make it any easier. You
can *do* it but you are just putting off what you will eventually have to,
do which is set up a domain.

hth
DDS



"Mike" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Can I set up a server in a workgroup type environment & share files,
> control access to files, etc., just like in a domain environment?
> I have a client who has 15-20 XP Home machines & has finally decided that
> they need a server, as sharing files between 15-20 computers has become
> quite a hassle!
>
> --
> The intelligent man wins his battles with pointed words.
> I'm sorry -- I meant sticks. Pointed sticks.
>

"Robert L. (MS-MVP)" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:20B76311-A303-4EB8-B0BB-(E-Mail Removed)...
> If you have over 10 workstations, you should think about setup a domain
> network. Also please be informed that the XP Home can't join the domain.
> However, they should be able to access the domain resources if they logon
> using the domain user ID.

Yes, everytime they have ordered computers, I have suggested that they get
them with XP Pro, but they didn't want to spend the extra - what?
$80?
$100?
Whatever Dell charges.

>
> --
> Bob Lin, MS-MVP, MCSE & CNE
> Networking, Internet, Routing, VPN Troubleshooting on
> http://www.ChicagoTech.net
> How to Setup Windows, Network, VPN & Remote Access on
> http://www.HowToNetworking.com
>
>
> "Mike" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Can I set up a server in a workgroup type environment & share files,
>> control access to files, etc., just like in a domain environment?
>> I have a client who has 15-20 XP Home machines & has finally decided that
>> they need a server, as sharing files between 15-20 computers has become
>> quite a hassle!
>>
>> --
>> The intelligent man wins his battles with pointed words.
>> I'm sorry -- I meant sticks. Pointed sticks.
>>
>

"Danny Sanders" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:eiSGs%(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Can I set up a server in a workgroup type environment & share files,
>> control access to files, etc., just like in a domain environment?
>
> If you could do that there would be no difference between a workgroup and
> a domain.
>
>> I have a client who has 15-20 XP Home machines & has finally decided that
>> they need a server, as sharing files between 15-20 computers has become
>> quite a hassle!
>
> Essentially they are in a workgroup now. If it's a hassle now managing
> them, adding one more machine to manage is not going to make it any
> easier. You can *do* it but you are just putting off what you will
> eventually have to, do which is set up a domain.
>
> hth
> DDS

Thanks!

>
>
>
> "Mike" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Can I set up a server in a workgroup type environment & share files,
>> control access to files, etc., just like in a domain environment?
>> I have a client who has 15-20 XP Home machines & has finally decided that
>> they need a server, as sharing files between 15-20 computers has become
>> quite a hassle!
>>
>> --
>> The intelligent man wins his battles with pointed words.
>> I'm sorry -- I meant sticks. Pointed sticks.
>>
>
>

Mike <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> "Robert L. (MS-MVP)" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:20B76311-A303-4EB8-B0BB-(E-Mail Removed)...
>> If you have over 10 workstations, you should think about setup a
>> domain network. Also please be informed that the XP Home can't join
>> the domain. However, they should be able to access the domain
>> resources if they logon using the domain user ID.
>
> Yes, everytime they have ordered computers, I have suggested that
> they get them with XP Pro, but they didn't want to spend the extra -
> what? $80?
> $100?
> Whatever Dell charges.

Oy. Well, I'll bet they'll have to spend a boatload more than that on
ongoing support if they don't move to a centrally managed domain model. Time
to stop being penny-wise and pound foolish. Beyond a small handful of
computers a workgroup config makes no sense - set up a domain. I wouldn't
take the job/work if they refused, personally.
>
>>
>> --
>> Bob Lin, MS-MVP, MCSE & CNE
>> Networking, Internet, Routing, VPN Troubleshooting on
>> http://www.ChicagoTech.net
>> How to Setup Windows, Network, VPN & Remote Access on
>> http://www.HowToNetworking.com
>>
>>
>> "Mike" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> Can I set up a server in a workgroup type environment & share files,
>>> control access to files, etc., just like in a domain environment?
>>> I have a client who has 15-20 XP Home machines & has finally
>>> decided that they need a server, as sharing files between 15-20
>>> computers has become quite a hassle!
>>>
>>> --
>>> The intelligent man wins his battles with pointed words.
>>> I'm sorry -- I meant sticks. Pointed sticks.

Yes, with a single server using local user accounts, you can lock down
access to folders and shares. The issue here is that the security principals
are LOCAL to the server, meaning none of the 15-20 PCs will share that same
local account database (there is a "workaround," which I will mention).

I have a client who has about 30 users and they are still in a workgroup.
One day I would like to set them up on a domain, but I can't justify the
cost for doing that right now. They have been working fine in their
workgroup, so they are really going to need some convincing to pay me
several $100 to configure a new domain for them.

Because the client does not utilize an AD domain for user authentication and
is instead in a workgroup configuration, the local desktop user accounts
must have the same username and password as that of the user account on the
server. So that's why they all share the same username/password, ie,
everyone logs on locally as User1/password1 and the server also has the same
account created locally. This is how User1 from any desktop PC can access
any resource that User1 from the server has been given access to.

Yeah, this isn't the greatest setup from a security standpoint. And because
everyone shares the same account it's hard to track down who did what. But
if it's a small company where everyone works closely with each other, I
don't see a reason to get too paranoid about security.

So yes, what you are asking can be done. If the business owner is too cheap
to get Windows XP Pro, then he or she would probably not see the cost
justification in paying you to set up a domain. So in your situation, a
workgroup might be your only option.

--
Regards,

Martin X.
Microsoft Certified Systems Administrator: Messaging
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

"Mike" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
Can I set up a server in a workgroup type environment & share files, control
access to files, etc., just like in a domain environment?
I have a client who has 15-20 XP Home machines & has finally decided that
they need a server, as sharing files between 15-20 computers has become
quite a hassle!

--
The intelligent man wins his battles with pointed words.
I'm sorry -- I meant sticks. Pointed sticks.

Danny Sanders wrote:

>>Can I set up a server in a workgroup type environment & share files,
>>control access to files, etc., just like in a domain environment?
>
>
> If you could do that there would be no difference between a workgroup and a
> domain.

Well, there would be a difference in that the server will not be hobbled
by XP Home's 5 inbound connection limits, the server can be the central
repository for the files and it will be a lot easier to share them out
to all users. It will also be easier to set ACLs on the files if they
are all hosted on the server and it will be also easier to back them up.
Of course setting up a domain would be the way to go but if the
customer doesn't want to pay the full price at least doing the above
will help a bit. Quite soon after the server is setup the customer may
realize that it makes more sense to have a domain and he may ask that
one be setup, in the meantime what he will have will be a heck of a lot
better than trying to track and share files with a bunch of Windows XP
Home machines that can't individually accept more than 5 inbound
connections.

John

If they want better resource management then they really need all XP Pro or
Vista Business clients and an Active Directory domain. Take a look at Small
Business Server.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserv...s/default.mspx

If you do this don't cheap out on the server. In an AD domain with a single
server if the server goes down you have 30 people twiddling their thumbs.
Expect somewhere from $2,000 to $4,500 for the server hardware. Expect at
least as much for installation costs. Hire someone to set it up who is
familiar with SBS. If you want to set it up yourself it is not difficult but
it is very different from setting up most Windows servers. It is very
important to use the wizards to set it up. The normal recommendation for IT
pros is to do three or four test installs before doing a real install so you
can learn how the different wizards work and what options are appropriate.
Once set up properly an SBS server is very easy to manage. I manage several
remotely with very rare on site visits.

If all you want is a central file and print server look to Linux. It's much
more cost effective in a small workgroup. If you need to run LOB
applications on the server then this probably won't work.

Whatever you do don't use desktop hardware for a server. Sooner or later it
will bite you in lost time. How much does it cost to have 30 employees sit
for day while the server is fixed? One lost day is around $3,000 which is
the cost of a decent small server :-)

--
Kerry Brown
Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
http://www.vistahelp.ca


"Mike" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Can I set up a server in a workgroup type environment & share files,
> control access to files, etc., just like in a domain environment?
> I have a client who has 15-20 XP Home machines & has finally decided that
> they need a server, as sharing files between 15-20 computers has become
> quite a hassle!
>
> --
> The intelligent man wins his battles with pointed words.
> I'm sorry -- I meant sticks. Pointed sticks.
>

And what *really* makes the most sense? Setting it up right from the
beginning or doing it twice?


DDS

"John John" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> Danny Sanders wrote:
>
>>>Can I set up a server in a workgroup type environment & share files,
>>>control access to files, etc., just like in a domain environment?
>>
>>
>> If you could do that there would be no difference between a workgroup and
>> a domain.
>
> Well, there would be a difference in that the server will not be hobbled
> by XP Home's 5 inbound connection limits, the server can be the central
> repository for the files and it will be a lot easier to share them out to
> all users. It will also be easier to set ACLs on the files if they are
> all hosted on the server and it will be also easier to back them up. Of
> course setting up a domain would be the way to go but if the customer
> doesn't want to pay the full price at least doing the above will help a
> bit. Quite soon after the server is setup the customer may realize that
> it makes more sense to have a domain and he may ask that one be setup, in
> the meantime what he will have will be a heck of a lot better than trying
> to track and share files with a bunch of Windows XP Home machines that
> can't individually accept more than 5 inbound connections.
>
> John