What does it do ?

I have a wireless PCI card based on a ralink RT61 chipset in
an old PC. It is connected to an antenna on top of my roof. There are
no ralink software or drivers on that PC.

So what does the card do ?

Does it transmit its MAC address ?
Try to discover other APs around it ?
Does it try to get an IP assigned to it ?
Does it transmit at all ?


Wandering about security issues ....

[]'s

Shadow wrote:

> I have a wireless PCI card based on a ralink RT61 chipset in
>an old PC. It is connected to an antenna on top of my roof. There are
>no ralink software or drivers on that PC.
>
> So what does the card do ?
>
> Does it transmit its MAC address ?
> Try to discover other APs around it ?
> Does it try to get an IP assigned to it ?
> Does it transmit at all ?
>
>
> Wandering about security issues ....
>
>
>

Keep wandering. You may stumble onto something.

Shadow wrote:
> I have a wireless PCI card based on a ralink RT61 chipset in
> an old PC. It is connected to an antenna on top of my roof. There are
> no ralink software or drivers on that PC.
>
> So what does the card do ?

Sit there absorbing a small amount of electricity. :-)

Without drivers, its doing nothing. However are you /sure/ there are no
drivers? If its a Windows PC it may have builtin drivers for the card.
In which case it's probably active, trying to find an AP to connect to.

> Does it transmit its MAC address ?

If you activate it in infrastructure mode, then it'll periodically send
out broadcasts which will contain its MAC.

> Wandering about security issues ....

If security is an issue, disable or remove the card.

Shadow <sh@dow> hath wroth:

> I have a wireless PCI card based on a ralink RT61 chipset in
>an old PC. It is connected to an antenna on top of my roof. There are
>no ralink software or drivers on that PC.
>
> So what does the card do ?

That sounds like a frequency hopping spread spectrum chip used by
Raylink, Symbol, and WebGear cards. It's probably intended to connect
to a WISP (wireless internet service provider) that uses that
technology. Is it a PCMCIA card that's shoved into a PCI adapter?
Something like the tiny photos of the Raylink PCI adapter at:
<http://www.raylink.com/pdf/adapter_manual.pdf>

> Does it transmit its MAC address ?

Yes. All wireless bridging does that.

> Try to discover other APs around it ?

Nope.

> Does it try to get an IP assigned to it ?

Yep. From the WISP's central router and DHCP server. Without a
contract, it's not going to happen.

> Does it transmit at all ?

Yes.

> Wandering about security issues ....

NO internet connection = few security issues.

> []'s

???

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 13:58:53 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Shadow <sh@dow> hath wroth:
>
>> I have a wireless PCI card based on a ralink RT61 chipset in
>>an old PC. It is connected to an antenna on top of my roof. There are
>>no ralink software or drivers on that PC.
>>
>> So what does the card do ?
>
>That sounds like a frequency hopping spread spectrum chip used by
>Raylink, Symbol, and WebGear cards. It's probably intended to connect
>to a WISP (wireless internet service provider) that uses that
>technology. Is it a PCMCIA card that's shoved into a PCI adapter?
>Something like the tiny photos of the Raylink PCI adapter at:
><http://www.raylink.com/pdf/adapter_manual.pdf>

Here it is:

http://www.edimax.com/en/produce_det...id=1&pl2_id=44

>
>> Does it transmit its MAC address ?
>
>Yes. All wireless bridging does that.
>
>> Try to discover other APs around it ?
>
>Nope.
>
>> Does it try to get an IP assigned to it ?
>
>Yep. From the WISP's central router and DHCP server. Without a
>contract, it's not going to happen.
With drivers it gets an invalid 10.10.10.1 type address from
the ISP. Without drivers I can't see it :P
Using linux.
>
>> Does it transmit at all ?
>
>Yes.
>
>> Wondering about security issues ....
>
>NO internet connection = few security issues.
Like someone might locate the PC by the MAC address, even if I
unload the drivers. Using a directional antenna, and a netstumbler on
a laptop. Something like that.
I deduce the answer is yes ....
[]'s

Shadow wrote:
<snip>
> With drivers it gets an invalid 10.10.10.1 type address from
> the ISP. Without drivers I can't see it :P

Why do you think that IP address is 'invalid'? Many ISPs assign
IP addresses from the private spaces and do NAT at the head end.

<snip>
> Like someone might locate the PC by the MAC address, even if I
> unload the drivers. Using a directional antenna, and a netstumbler on
> a laptop. Something like that.

<snip>

A client radio does not broadcast beacons; with no significant traffic
on this client, there is little RF to do direction finding. Netstumbler
is not suited for direction finding in any case; there are other tools
for that. Being that this is FHSS, you wouldn't see it with conventional
software tools anyway; you might as well be sniffing for baby monitors
or microwave ovens.

Michael

Shadow <sh@dow> hath wroth:

>http://www.edimax.com/en/produce_det...id=1&pl2_id=44

OK, I was wrong. It's a conventional 802.11b/g wireless PCI card.

> With drivers it gets an invalid 10.10.10.1 type address from
>the ISP. Without drivers I can't see it :P

That's normal. Most WISP (wireless ISP) providers do NOT supply
routeable IP addresses. 10.xxx.xxx.xxx is part of RFC-1918
non-routeable private IP addresses.
<http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1918.html>

> Using linux.

OK, what makes you think there are no drivers? If you're using the
card and it gets an IP address, there's certainly a driver somewhere.
Probably came with your unspecified Linux mutation.

> Like someone might locate the PC by the MAC address, even if I
>unload the drivers. Using a directional antenna, and a netstumbler on
>a laptop. Something like that.

All 802.11 wireless is bridging. Bridging requires that everyone know
the various MAC addresses. MAC addresses are sent in the clear and
not encrypted. I suppose once can precipitate a DoS attack if I knew
your MAC address, but that's about it.

> I deduce the answer is yes ....

Ummm... what's the question? Actually, I don't see a problem. If you
disable the interface:
ifconfig wlan0 down
even with the MAC address, there's nothing I can do to your system.

However, if you're worried that the WISP might find out that you're
hacking their system with a machine that was formerly on their
network, you may have a problem. I don't know where the 10.10.10.1
address is coming from, but I suspect you don't have permission to use
that system.



--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 21:59:58 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Shadow <sh@dow> hath wroth:
>
>>http://www.edimax.com/en/produce_det...id=1&pl2_id=44
>
>OK, I was wrong. It's a conventional 802.11b/g wireless PCI card.
>
>> With drivers it gets an invalid 10.10.10.1 type address from
>>the ISP. Without drivers I can't see it :P
>
>That's normal. Most WISP (wireless ISP) providers do NOT supply
>routeable IP addresses. 10.xxx.xxx.xxx is part of RFC-1918
>non-routeable private IP addresses.
><http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1918.html>
Sure, it gives me a 10.10.10.x address via DHCP, if I use an
invalid mac and wep key.
If I use a valid one, I can choose which 172.x.x.x address I
use (depends only on mac, as wep key is same for all users). Legit
users do not have dhcp, they get static IPs
>
>> Using linux.
>
>OK, what makes you think there are no drivers? If you're using the
>card and it gets an IP address, there's certainly a driver somewhere.
>Probably came with your unspecified Linux mutation.
It's a router. It has a USRobotics 56k modem and the wireless
card.
And two linux liveCDs which I built myself. The dialup CD
certainly does not have a ralink driver, and vice-versa. I exchange
them as needed.
>
>> Like someone might locate the PC by the MAC address, even if I
>>unload the drivers. Using a directional antenna, and a netstumbler on
>>a laptop. Something like that.
You see, when I'm using the dialup CD, which I do 98% of the
time, my antenna and wireless card are all there, but no drivers.
Wondering if someone could sniff it out. That was the original
question. I don't have a laptop to test ....
>
>All 802.11 wireless is bridging. Bridging requires that everyone know
>the various MAC addresses. MAC addresses are sent in the clear and
>not encrypted. I suppose once can precipitate a DoS attack if I knew
>your MAC address, but that's about it.
>
>> I deduce the answer is yes ....
>
>Ummm... what's the question? Actually, I don't see a problem. If you
>disable the interface:
> ifconfig wlan0 down
>even with the MAC address, there's nothing I can do to your system.
True. Not a problem though.
>
>However, if you're worried that the WISP might find out that you're
>hacking their system with a machine that was formerly on their
>network, you may have a problem. I don't know where the 10.10.10.1
>address is coming from, but I suspect you don't have permission to use
>that system.
The 10.10.10.x I can. But it has no valid gateway. It's the
172.x.x.x one that they object to me using..... which I do only to dl
heavy stuff it the twilight hours.
PS this is the backwoods of South America. Lawyers please
refrain from commenting ....
[]'s

"Shadow" <sh@dow> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> I have a wireless PCI card based on a ralink RT61 chipset in
> an old PC. It is connected to an antenna on top of my roof. There are
> no ralink software or drivers on that PC.
>
> So what does the card do ?
>
> Does it transmit its MAC address ?
> Try to discover other APs around it ?
> Does it try to get an IP assigned to it ?
> Does it transmit at all ?
>
>
> Wandering about security issues ....

http://www.google.com/search?q=ralink+RT61

Looks like an 802.11g card. Windows driver and hacks for Linux exist.

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 18:52:45 -0800, "D. Stussy"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>"Shadow" <sh@dow> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed).. .
>> I have a wireless PCI card based on a ralink RT61 chipset in
>> an old PC. It is connected to an antenna on top of my roof. There are
>> no ralink software or drivers on that PC.
>>
>> So what does the card do ?
>>
>> Does it transmit its MAC address ?
>> Try to discover other APs around it ?
>> Does it try to get an IP assigned to it ?
>> Does it transmit at all ?
>>
>>
>> Wandering about security issues ....
>
>http://www.google.com/search?q=ralink+RT61
>
>Looks like an 802.11g card. Windows driver and hacks for Linux exist.
>
They certainly do ....
:P