Where does BT's responsibility end (home wiring)

I've got two lines coming into my house, and the second line traces a route
from out the back of the master socket of the first line, where the wires
enter the house, and then goes around walls, over door frames and up the
stairwell until it terminates at a socket in the office upstairs.

It was installed like that by the BT engineer who came to hook everything
up in the house when we bought it as new a couple of years ago - my
preferred alternative was to take the second line up the outside of the
house into the loft and down into the office, but the BT engineer refused
since the house is 3 storeys high and she said there wasn't enough space
between us and next door for her to erect her ladders safely (the Sky
installer didn't seem to mind, unusually enough for them). The main problem
is that the cable going up the stairwell is starting to come away from the
walls (the tiny fixings she used weren't particularly good at holding onto
the plasterboard, and two toddlers who like to pull at the nice white cable
don't help either).

Am I allowed to do anything with the cabling for the second line before it
hits the socket in the office, or does the "don't touch anything beyond the
master socket" rule only apply to a first line? Secondly, if I order ADSL
on the second line, and it turns out that the cabling between where the
second line is "tapped off" the wires entering the house and the socket in
the office is preventing a decent signal (quite possible, I would have
thought, given the number of 90° bends around door frames, plus the
aforementioned toddler-cable-tugging), whose responsibility is this?

Ta for any advice

Iwan

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Iwan Davies <NOSPAM-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> I've got two lines coming into my house, and the second line traces a
> route from out the back of the master socket of the first line, where
> the wires enter the house, and then goes around walls, over door
> frames and up the stairwell until it terminates at a socket in the
> office upstairs.
>
> It was installed like that by the BT engineer who came to hook
> everything up in the house when we bought it as new a couple of years
> ago - my preferred alternative was to take the second line up the
> outside of the house into the loft and down into the office, but the
> BT engineer refused since the house is 3 storeys high and she said
> there wasn't enough space between us and next door for her to erect
> her ladders safely (the Sky installer didn't seem to mind, unusually
> enough for them). The main problem is that the cable going up the
> stairwell is starting to come away from the walls (the tiny fixings
> she used weren't particularly good at holding onto the plasterboard,
> and two toddlers who like to pull at the nice white cable don't help
> either).
>
> Am I allowed to do anything with the cabling for the second line
> before it hits the socket in the office, or does the "don't touch
> anything beyond the master socket" rule only apply to a first line?
> Secondly, if I order ADSL on the second line, and it turns out that
> the cabling between where the second line is "tapped off" the wires
> entering the house and the socket in the office is preventing a
> decent signal (quite possible, I would have thought, given the number
> of 90° bends around door frames, plus the aforementioned
> toddler-cable-tugging), whose responsibility is this?
>
> Ta for any advice
>
> Iwan

You are definitely talking about two separate *lines* - each with its own
telephone number, rather than an extension socket on a single line, aren't
you?

If you are, then each line is BT's responsibility up to the respective
master socket - and you're not supposed to touch anything on the BT side of
the master - including the cable going up the stairs. Mind you, if your
internal cable gets damaged through no fault of BT's, they're likely to
charge you for mending it!

If what you have is a single line with an extension, it may *still* be BT's
responsibility if they installed it and charge you rental on the extension
socket. Otherwise, you can do what you like with the wiring between master
and extension.

Incidentally, the 90 degree bends in the cable shouldn't matter - it's not
like co-ax TV aerial cable where the separation between core and shield
matters.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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On 15-Apr-2006, Iwan Davies <NOSPAM-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Am I allowed to do anything with the cabling for the second line before it
> hits the socket in the office, or does the "don't touch anything beyond the
> master socket" rule only apply to a first line?

The interpretation seem to be that if it is installed by BT then don't touch.
Anything you damage, or alter, could be charged for rectification (assuming
there is a detailed record).
The route BT takes is at their discretion, usually the simplest, safest,
and/or cheapest option.
The line coming into your house is probably quad (4-wires) a pair
for each connection. So ADSL on the office pair shouldn't be a
problem. The 2nd pair (office) comes out of the back of the master skt
because that is where it was easiest to access that pair (rather than
put in a 4-way terminal block).

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 21:51:46 +0100, Roger Mills wrote:

> In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
> Iwan Davies <NOSPAM-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> I've got two lines coming into my house, and the second line traces a
>> route from out the back of the master socket of the first line, where
>> the wires enter the house, and then goes around walls, over door
>> frames and up the stairwell until it terminates at a socket in the
>> office upstairs.
>>
>> Am I allowed to do anything with the cabling for the second line
>> before it hits the socket in the office, or does the "don't touch
>> anything beyond the master socket" rule only apply to a first line?
>> Secondly, if I order ADSL on the second line, and it turns out that
>> the cabling between where the second line is "tapped off" the wires
>> entering the house and the socket in the office is preventing a
>> decent signal (quite possible, I would have thought, given the number
>> of 90° bends around door frames, plus the aforementioned
>> toddler-cable-tugging), whose responsibility is this?
>>
> You are definitely talking about two separate *lines* - each with its own
> telephone number, rather than an extension socket on a single line, aren't
> you?
>
> If you are, then each line is BT's responsibility up to the respective
> master socket - and you're not supposed to touch anything on the BT side of
> the master - including the cable going up the stairs. Mind you, if your
> internal cable gets damaged through no fault of BT's, they're likely to
> charge you for mending it!
>

Yes, two separate lines, each with its own number. I really don't like the
idea of the cabling for the second line being so exposed - especially the
bits where the cable tacks have come away from the wall. So I've just got
to work out how to persuade BT to come back and reroute the cable outside
the house...

Iwan

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 20:53:34 GMT, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:

> On 15-Apr-2006, Iwan Davies <NOSPAM-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Am I allowed to do anything with the cabling for the second line before it
>> hits the socket in the office, or does the "don't touch anything beyond the
>> master socket" rule only apply to a first line?
>
> The interpretation seem to be that if it is installed by BT then don't touch.
> Anything you damage, or alter, could be charged for rectification (assuming
> there is a detailed record).
> The route BT takes is at their discretion, usually the simplest, safest,
> and/or cheapest option.
> The line coming into your house is probably quad (4-wires) a pair
> for each connection. So ADSL on the office pair shouldn't be a
> problem. The 2nd pair (office) comes out of the back of the master skt
> because that is where it was easiest to access that pair (rather than
> put in a 4-way terminal block).

Hmm, so I'm faced with the proposition that if I want to redecorate the
stairwell and hide the existing cable behind skirting board, etc., I can't,
since doing so would necessarily involve unwiring the cable at some point,
at least in the office. I can see the wife will be pleased with that
answer, but as excuses for not getting on with the DIY go, it's certainly
one of the best...

Iwan

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 21:06:42 UTC, Iwan Davies
<NOSPAM-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Hmm, so I'm faced with the proposition that if I want to redecorate the
> stairwell and hide the existing cable behind skirting board, etc., I can't,
> since doing so would necessarily involve unwiring the cable at some point,
> at least in the office.

I had a very similar situation when we moved in here. Dropwire through
upstairs window frame, to a box 52A:
http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/images/52a.jpg
then a cable through the room, onto the landing, round two door frames,
down the stairs, along a passage, through a doorframe, to the master
socket.

I shortened the cable to six inches (I want the master socket in that
room, because that's where the house PBX is). I was careful to
disconnect at the 52A while I worked on the cable.
--
[ 7'ism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
euthanasia recommended. ]

Iwan Davies <NOSPAM-(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
>
> Yes, two separate lines, each with its own number. I really don't like the
> idea of the cabling for the second line being so exposed - especially the
> bits where the cable tacks have come away from the wall. So I've just got
> to work out how to persuade BT to come back and reroute the cable outside
> the house...

Do take wildlife into account, and avoid sprinkling breadcrumbs on the line
lest birds peck at it. No need to be excessively zealous though. I wouldn't
advocate shooting anything in the first instance.

R.

>>
>>> I've got two lines coming into my house, and the second line traces a
>>> route from out the back of the master socket of the first line, where
>>> the wires enter the house, and then goes around walls, over door
>>> frames and up the stairwell until it terminates at a socket in the
>>> office upstairs.
>>>
>>> Am I allowed to do anything with the cabling for the second line
>>> before it hits the socket in the office, or does the "don't touch
>>> anything beyond the master socket" rule only apply to a first line?
>>> Secondly, if I order ADSL on the second line, and it turns out that
>>> the cabling between where the second line is "tapped off" the wires
>>> entering the house and the socket in the office is preventing a
>>> decent signal (quite possible, I would have thought, given the number
>>> of 90° bends around door frames, plus the aforementioned
>>> toddler-cable-tugging), whose responsibility is this?
>>>
>> You are definitely talking about two separate *lines* - each with its own
>> telephone number, rather than an extension socket on a single line,
>> aren't
>> you?
>>
>> If you are, then each line is BT's responsibility up to the respective
>> master socket - and you're not supposed to touch anything on the BT side
>> of
>> the master - including the cable going up the stairs. Mind you, if your
>> internal cable gets damaged through no fault of BT's, they're likely to
>> charge you for mending it!
>>
>
> Yes, two separate lines, each with its own number. I really don't like the
> idea of the cabling for the second line being so exposed - especially the
> bits where the cable tacks have come away from the wall. So I've just got
> to work out how to persuade BT to come back and reroute the cable outside
> the house...

You just have to be prepared to pay for the work.

Peter Crosland

Roger Mills wrote:
> You are definitely talking about two separate *lines* - each with
> its own telephone number, rather than an extension socket on a
> single line, aren't you?
>
> If you are, then each line is BT's responsibility up to the
> respective master socket - and you're not supposed to touch
> anything on the BT side of the master - including the cable going
> up the stairs. Mind you, if your internal cable gets damaged
> through no fault of BT's, they're likely to charge you for mending
> it!

Charges apply to any internal wiring faults nowadays, whether it's
before or after the NTE. The powers that be have decreed that the
point where BT stop maintaining (where it is included in your line
rental) is where it enters the building & that anything inside the
building is now decreed chargable, no exceptions. Indeed even certain
external faults are also now deemed to be chargable, leadins
damaged/cut etc. Whether the engineer who visits believes it or not
is another matter, but beware there has been a special group set up to
go through the engineers clear codes & where they think it correct
they are slapping the charges on, despite what the engineer on site
states on his job notes.

Sorry, but don't shoot the messenger..

To the OP if you can get some cable cleats, of the right size, then do
it yourself. If you want any wiring moved/changed by BT there is a
standard charge, it's called a shift & no I'm sorry I don't know how
much it costs.

Iwan Davies wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 20:53:34 GMT, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>
>> On 15-Apr-2006, Iwan Davies <NOSPAM-(E-Mail Removed)>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Am I allowed to do anything with the cabling for the second line
>>> before it hits the socket in the office, or does the "don't touch
>>> anything beyond the master socket" rule only apply to a first line?
>>
>> The interpretation seem to be that if it is installed by BT then
>> don't touch. Anything you damage, or alter, could be charged for
>> rectification (assuming there is a detailed record).
>> The route BT takes is at their discretion, usually the simplest,
>> safest, and/or cheapest option.
>> The line coming into your house is probably quad (4-wires) a pair
>> for each connection. So ADSL on the office pair shouldn't be a
>> problem. The 2nd pair (office) comes out of the back of the master
>> skt because that is where it was easiest to access that pair (rather
>> than
>> put in a 4-way terminal block).
>
> Hmm, so I'm faced with the proposition that if I want to redecorate
> the stairwell and hide the existing cable behind skirting board,
> etc., I can't, since doing so would necessarily involve unwiring the
> cable at some point, at least in the office. I can see the wife will
> be pleased with that answer, but as excuses for not getting on with
> the DIY go, it's certainly one of the best...


Yep. you should be grateful to BT for routing the cable that way

Otherwise consider getting line 2 shortened back to somewhere near the
incoming point & connect to the PC via a wireless link & use either a
cordless or VOIP phone for calls.

Solves the problem with 'trailing' cables & possible line loss, *plus* you
can use the cost of the hardware as another excuse (sorry - reason) for not
doing the decorating just yet.

--
Joe Lee