How do I extend wireless to our other buildings?

I am running SBS 2003, a WinXP Pro network. Two WLAN's - one for staff use,
and one for guests. It's the one for guests I'm having trouble with.

Current Setup: I have a wireless router connected directly to my router with
an IP outside (192.168.2.1) of my internal (192.168.16.x) and external
(192.168.1.x) IP ranges. It is setup as a DHCP server, handing out
addresses in the range 192.168.2.100 through .199. All LAN settings point
to the wireless router (192.168.2.1) and all WAN settings point to my router
(192.168.1.1). I have 3 AP's in the main building wired directly to the
wireless router. Work like a charm. I have 4 AP's in 3 other buildings on
our "campus". They all are in "wireless bridge + access Point" mode,
meaning they are set to act as both. They have either omni-directional or
directional antenna's pointed (as required) back to the main building's
antenna (omni-directional). The AP in the main building connected to the
outside omni-directional antenna is also in "wireless bridge _ access point"
mode.

Problem: I cannot get an IP from the remote building's AP's. Each has a
strong signal when I approach nearby, but I can't get an IP frm the WLAN.
I've even taken my laptop to each and connected directly to the AP - same
result.

Questio(s): Is this my design? Physical setup? Equipment (I use all D-Link
products)?

Many TIA!
--
Mike Webb
Platte River Whooping Crane Maintenance Trust, Inc.
a conservation non-profit (501 (c)(3)) organization
Wood River, NE

It could the DHCP server. Have you tried to assign a static IP for the test?

--
Bob Lin, MS-MVP, MCSE & CNE
Networking, Internet, Routing, VPN Troubleshooting on
http://www.ChicagoTech.net
How to Setup Windows, Network, VPN & Remote Access on
http://www.HowToNetworking.com
"Mike in Nebraska" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>I am running SBS 2003, a WinXP Pro network. Two WLAN's - one for staff
>use, and one for guests. It's the one for guests I'm having trouble with.
>
> Current Setup: I have a wireless router connected directly to my router
> with an IP outside (192.168.2.1) of my internal (192.168.16.x) and
> external (192.168.1.x) IP ranges. It is setup as a DHCP server, handing
> out addresses in the range 192.168.2.100 through .199. All LAN settings
> point to the wireless router (192.168.2.1) and all WAN settings point to
> my router (192.168.1.1). I have 3 AP's in the main building wired
> directly to the wireless router. Work like a charm. I have 4 AP's in 3
> other buildings on our "campus". They all are in "wireless bridge +
> access Point" mode, meaning they are set to act as both. They have either
> omni-directional or directional antenna's pointed (as required) back to
> the main building's antenna (omni-directional). The AP in the main
> building connected to the outside omni-directional antenna is also in
> "wireless bridge _ access point" mode.
>
> Problem: I cannot get an IP from the remote building's AP's. Each has a
> strong signal when I approach nearby, but I can't get an IP frm the WLAN.
> I've even taken my laptop to each and connected directly to the AP - same
> result.
>
> Questio(s): Is this my design? Physical setup? Equipment (I use all
> D-Link products)?
>
> Many TIA!
> --
> Mike Webb
> Platte River Whooping Crane Maintenance Trust, Inc.
> a conservation non-profit (501 (c)(3)) organization
> Wood River, NE
>

No, but I thought the DHCP was fine since it hands out IP's via the main
building AP's that are wired to the wireless router.

"Robert L. (MS-MVP)" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> It could the DHCP server. Have you tried to assign a static IP for the
> test?
>
> --
> Bob Lin, MS-MVP, MCSE & CNE
> Networking, Internet, Routing, VPN Troubleshooting on
> http://www.ChicagoTech.net
> How to Setup Windows, Network, VPN & Remote Access on
> http://www.HowToNetworking.com
> "Mike in Nebraska" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>I am running SBS 2003, a WinXP Pro network. Two WLAN's - one for staff
>>use, and one for guests. It's the one for guests I'm having trouble with.
>>
>> Current Setup: I have a wireless router connected directly to my router
>> with an IP outside (192.168.2.1) of my internal (192.168.16.x) and
>> external (192.168.1.x) IP ranges. It is setup as a DHCP server, handing
>> out addresses in the range 192.168.2.100 through .199. All LAN settings
>> point to the wireless router (192.168.2.1) and all WAN settings point to
>> my router (192.168.1.1). I have 3 AP's in the main building wired
>> directly to the wireless router. Work like a charm. I have 4 AP's in 3
>> other buildings on our "campus". They all are in "wireless bridge +
>> access Point" mode, meaning they are set to act as both. They have
>> either omni-directional or directional antenna's pointed (as required)
>> back to the main building's antenna (omni-directional). The AP in the
>> main building connected to the outside omni-directional antenna is also
>> in "wireless bridge _ access point" mode.
>>
>> Problem: I cannot get an IP from the remote building's AP's. Each has a
>> strong signal when I approach nearby, but I can't get an IP frm the WLAN.
>> I've even taken my laptop to each and connected directly to the AP - same
>> result.
>>
>> Questio(s): Is this my design? Physical setup? Equipment (I use all
>> D-Link products)?
>>
>> Many TIA!
>> --
>> Mike Webb
>> Platte River Whooping Crane Maintenance Trust, Inc.
>> a conservation non-profit (501 (c)(3)) organization
>> Wood River, NE
>>
>

Mike,

I remember dealing with this whole thing out at whoopingcrane.org about a
year ago. I don't remenber the specifics of how it turned out, but can you
draw a diagram of how things are "laid out" because if is very hard to
picture the layout in my head from just your description.

It would be important to also know what "had been" working and what had
changed since then.

The diagram would be good if it was a JPG that was placed on a website where
I can view it.


--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------

"Mike in Nebraska" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> No, but I thought the DHCP was fine since it hands out IP's via the main
> building AP's that are wired to the wireless router.
>
> "Robert L. (MS-MVP)" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> It could the DHCP server. Have you tried to assign a static IP for the
>> test?
>>
>> --
>> Bob Lin, MS-MVP, MCSE & CNE
>> Networking, Internet, Routing, VPN Troubleshooting on
>> http://www.ChicagoTech.net
>> How to Setup Windows, Network, VPN & Remote Access on
>> http://www.HowToNetworking.com
>> "Mike in Nebraska" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>I am running SBS 2003, a WinXP Pro network. Two WLAN's - one for staff
>>>use, and one for guests. It's the one for guests I'm having trouble
>>>with.
>>>
>>> Current Setup: I have a wireless router connected directly to my router
>>> with an IP outside (192.168.2.1) of my internal (192.168.16.x) and
>>> external (192.168.1.x) IP ranges. It is setup as a DHCP server, handing
>>> out addresses in the range 192.168.2.100 through .199. All LAN settings
>>> point to the wireless router (192.168.2.1) and all WAN settings point to
>>> my router (192.168.1.1). I have 3 AP's in the main building wired
>>> directly to the wireless router. Work like a charm. I have 4 AP's in 3
>>> other buildings on our "campus". They all are in "wireless bridge +
>>> access Point" mode, meaning they are set to act as both. They have
>>> either omni-directional or directional antenna's pointed (as required)
>>> back to the main building's antenna (omni-directional). The AP in the
>>> main building connected to the outside omni-directional antenna is also
>>> in "wireless bridge _ access point" mode.
>>>
>>> Problem: I cannot get an IP from the remote building's AP's. Each has
>>> a strong signal when I approach nearby, but I can't get an IP frm the
>>> WLAN. I've even taken my laptop to each and connected directly to the
>>> AP - same result.
>>>
>>> Questio(s): Is this my design? Physical setup? Equipment (I use all
>>> D-Link products)?
>>>
>>> Many TIA!
>>> --
>>> Mike Webb
>>> Platte River Whooping Crane Maintenance Trust, Inc.
>>> a conservation non-profit (501 (c)(3)) organization
>>> Wood River, NE
>>>
>>
>
>

Will do.
"Phillip Windell" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Mike,
>
> I remember dealing with this whole thing out at whoopingcrane.org about a
> year ago. I don't remenber the specifics of how it turned out, but can
> you draw a diagram of how things are "laid out" because if is very hard to
> picture the layout in my head from just your description.
>
> It would be important to also know what "had been" working and what had
> changed since then.
>
> The diagram would be good if it was a JPG that was placed on a website
> where I can view it.
>
>
> --
> Phillip Windell
> www.wandtv.com
>
> The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or
> Microsoft,
> or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> "Mike in Nebraska" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> No, but I thought the DHCP was fine since it hands out IP's via the main
>> building AP's that are wired to the wireless router.
>>
>> "Robert L. (MS-MVP)" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> It could the DHCP server. Have you tried to assign a static IP for the
>>> test?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Bob Lin, MS-MVP, MCSE & CNE
>>> Networking, Internet, Routing, VPN Troubleshooting on
>>> http://www.ChicagoTech.net
>>> How to Setup Windows, Network, VPN & Remote Access on
>>> http://www.HowToNetworking.com
>>> "Mike in Nebraska" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>I am running SBS 2003, a WinXP Pro network. Two WLAN's - one for staff
>>>>use, and one for guests. It's the one for guests I'm having trouble
>>>>with.
>>>>
>>>> Current Setup: I have a wireless router connected directly to my router
>>>> with an IP outside (192.168.2.1) of my internal (192.168.16.x) and
>>>> external (192.168.1.x) IP ranges. It is setup as a DHCP server,
>>>> handing out addresses in the range 192.168.2.100 through .199. All LAN
>>>> settings point to the wireless router (192.168.2.1) and all WAN
>>>> settings point to my router (192.168.1.1). I have 3 AP's in the main
>>>> building wired directly to the wireless router. Work like a charm. I
>>>> have 4 AP's in 3 other buildings on our "campus". They all are in
>>>> "wireless bridge + access Point" mode, meaning they are set to act as
>>>> both. They have either omni-directional or directional antenna's
>>>> pointed (as required) back to the main building's antenna
>>>> (omni-directional). The AP in the main building connected to the
>>>> outside omni-directional antenna is also in "wireless bridge _ access
>>>> point" mode.
>>>>
>>>> Problem: I cannot get an IP from the remote building's AP's. Each has
>>>> a strong signal when I approach nearby, but I can't get an IP frm the
>>>> WLAN. I've even taken my laptop to each and connected directly to the
>>>> AP - same result.
>>>>
>>>> Questio(s): Is this my design? Physical setup? Equipment (I use all
>>>> D-Link products)?
>>>>
>>>> Many TIA!
>>>> --
>>>> Mike Webb
>>>> Platte River Whooping Crane Maintenance Trust, Inc.
>>>> a conservation non-profit (501 (c)(3)) organization
>>>> Wood River, NE
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Hello again. This IS the same case I've been wrestling with for over a
year. The diagram is found here:
http://s323.photobucket.com/albums/n...elessSetup.jpg

I started over from scratch about 6 months ago. Brought all the AP's and
set 'em up in our conference room and set everything up step-by-step.
Worked then, but not deployed.

My Guest WLAN is set up as follows:
(1) A wireless router wired to my main router. The main router is at
192.168.1.1. The wireless router is set to 192.168.2.1. It uses the main
router as the Default Gateway. The WLAN is setup so it (192.168.2.1) is
also a DHCP server. The IP scope is 192.168.2.100 - .199. The AP's are
given static IP's.
(2) I have 2 AP's in the main building wired to the wireless router. They
are in AP-only mode. They work great; clients can get an IP easily,
maintain connection, etc.
(3) I have one AP in the main building wired to the wireless router set to
WDS with AP mode, meaning it acts as a bridge and an AP simultaneously.
It's antenna is mounted on the roof (about 50-ft above ground), and is
omni-directional. I have the MAC addresses of the remote AP's entered in
the setup table on this AP.
(4) All AP's have a unique SSID to denote their location, and all are on the
same channel. Security is WPA-Personal/PSK.
(5) The AP's in buildings A - D are set to WDS with AP mode. Each has the
MAC address of the other AP's in it's table.

Using a Dell laptop with a 802.11b/g wireless card, I can walk around and
detect all the AP's, but can't get an IP. When I plug a CAT-5 from thr
laptop to the AP, same problem.

The wireless router is a D-Link DI-524. The AP's are a mix of D-Link
DWL-2100AP's and DWL-2200AP's.

That's my situation. Many thanks for your offer to help!

Mike

"Phillip Windell" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Mike,
>
> I remember dealing with this whole thing out at whoopingcrane.org about a
> year ago. I don't remenber the specifics of how it turned out, but can
> you draw a diagram of how things are "laid out" because if is very hard to
> picture the layout in my head from just your description.
>
> It would be important to also know what "had been" working and what had
> changed since then.
>
> The diagram would be good if it was a JPG that was placed on a website
> where I can view it.
>
>
> --
> Phillip Windell
> www.wandtv.com
>
> The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or
> Microsoft,
> or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> "Mike in Nebraska" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> No, but I thought the DHCP was fine since it hands out IP's via the main
>> building AP's that are wired to the wireless router.
>>
>> "Robert L. (MS-MVP)" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> It could the DHCP server. Have you tried to assign a static IP for the
>>> test?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Bob Lin, MS-MVP, MCSE & CNE
>>> Networking, Internet, Routing, VPN Troubleshooting on
>>> http://www.ChicagoTech.net
>>> How to Setup Windows, Network, VPN & Remote Access on
>>> http://www.HowToNetworking.com
>>> "Mike in Nebraska" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>I am running SBS 2003, a WinXP Pro network. Two WLAN's - one for staff
>>>>use, and one for guests. It's the one for guests I'm having trouble
>>>>with.
>>>>
>>>> Current Setup: I have a wireless router connected directly to my router
>>>> with an IP outside (192.168.2.1) of my internal (192.168.16.x) and
>>>> external (192.168.1.x) IP ranges. It is setup as a DHCP server,
>>>> handing out addresses in the range 192.168.2.100 through .199. All LAN
>>>> settings point to the wireless router (192.168.2.1) and all WAN
>>>> settings point to my router (192.168.1.1). I have 3 AP's in the main
>>>> building wired directly to the wireless router. Work like a charm. I
>>>> have 4 AP's in 3 other buildings on our "campus". They all are in
>>>> "wireless bridge + access Point" mode, meaning they are set to act as
>>>> both. They have either omni-directional or directional antenna's
>>>> pointed (as required) back to the main building's antenna
>>>> (omni-directional). The AP in the main building connected to the
>>>> outside omni-directional antenna is also in "wireless bridge _ access
>>>> point" mode.
>>>>
>>>> Problem: I cannot get an IP from the remote building's AP's. Each has
>>>> a strong signal when I approach nearby, but I can't get an IP frm the
>>>> WLAN. I've even taken my laptop to each and connected directly to the
>>>> AP - same result.
>>>>
>>>> Questio(s): Is this my design? Physical setup? Equipment (I use all
>>>> D-Link products)?
>>>>
>>>> Many TIA!
>>>> --
>>>> Mike Webb
>>>> Platte River Whooping Crane Maintenance Trust, Inc.
>>>> a conservation non-profit (501 (c)(3)) organization
>>>> Wood River, NE
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

"Mike in Nebraska" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hello again. This IS the same case I've been wrestling with for over a
> year. The diagram is found here:
> http://s323.photobucket.com/albums/n...elessSetup.jpg

The wireless devices need to be on different channels.

The firewalls are backwards. It needs to be:
LAN---[firewall]---Guest Network---[firewall]---<Internet>
Not....
Guest Network---[firewall]---LAN---[firewall]---<Internet>

I doubt I can help with this one. There are just way to many things that
you are doing that I would never do,...it does not matter if you
"can",...and it does not matter if the manufacture says "it can",...I would:

1. never use a "wireless router" in anything except its "normal" mode.

2. never use any AP as both a bridge and an AP at the same time.

3. I would never even use a "wireless router" in this case to begin with.
The "routers" are *Firewalls* and I would separate the job of Firewall from
the job of "wireless device" in this case.

What I would do:
Every device would have a clearly define "job". They would not wear
"mulitple hats"

1. Use two *wired* Firewalls "back-to-back". This creates a back-to-back
DMZ between the two Firewalls which would serve as the Guest network.

2. I would hang an AP on the DMZ (Guest) network for the guests to use.
This would only be available in or near the building it is physically in.
There is no "good" way to bridge this one over the campus unless you wanted
to bridge evey building *twice* (once for each network) or start mixing
VLANs into and already confusing situation.

3. The Main building's LAN would then be behind the second Firewall and
would still be *wired* at this point. Then I would hang separate APs and a
Bridge off of the LAN

4. I would use "real" wireless Bridges between the buildings to link them.
The LAN within each building would be *wired* downstream of the Bridge. I
would then hang and AP off of the building's wired LAN downstream of the
Bridge.

I believe this is the same description I recommended a year ago except that
I don't think there was a Guest Network at the time.

--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------

"Phillip Windell" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...

> The wireless devices need to be on different channels.

I take that part back. It may not be true.

You see there's the rub when you don't have clearly defined jobs for each
device.

APs normally run different chanels & different SSID,...or different channels
& same SSID if roaming is used. The different channels are to keep them
from interferring with each other in the signal's "overlap zone". However
with Bridges,..particularly when there is one central omi-directional Bridge
with multiple other Bridges connecting to it they need to obviously be on
the same channel and same SSID. Then the APs in the signal area of the
Bridges need to use channels that don't interferre with the Bridges. To
help with that all the Bridges except the one Central Bridge use directional
antennas so the signal does not propagate into areas of conflict.


Like I said, I don't think I can do anything with what you have there.


--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------

Thanks, I appreciate your time! It IS helpful. Let me iagram this all out
and see if I ccan do this with my current resources.

Mike

"Phillip Windell" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:uH3zW%(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Phillip Windell" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>> The wireless devices need to be on different channels.
>
> I take that part back. It may not be true.
>
> You see there's the rub when you don't have clearly defined jobs for each
> device.
>
> APs normally run different chanels & different SSID,...or different
> channels & same SSID if roaming is used. The different channels are to
> keep them from interferring with each other in the signal's "overlap
> zone". However with Bridges,..particularly when there is one central
> omi-directional Bridge with multiple other Bridges connecting to it they
> need to obviously be on the same channel and same SSID. Then the APs in
> the signal area of the Bridges need to use channels that don't interferre
> with the Bridges. To help with that all the Bridges except the one
> Central Bridge use directional antennas so the signal does not propagate
> into areas of conflict.
>
>
> Like I said, I don't think I can do anything with what you have there.
>
>
> --
> Phillip Windell
> www.wandtv.com
>
> The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or
> Microsoft,
> or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>