Disconnections on ADSL2 service

I've been suffering occasional but regular ADSL disconnects for a couple
of weeks now, and the frequency of them has increased since some heavy
rain last Wednesday.

The symptoms are as follows:-.

Suddenly my router (Cisco AM200) will lose sync with the exchange, or
its sync speed will drop dramatically.
When I notice this happening I can hear crackles and whistling sounds on
the phone line.
Curiously if I switch off the router the whistling stops (but not the
crackling).

This led me to suspect the filter.
I changed the filter, but no improvement.

I changed the router but no improvement.

I have isolated the home's extension network and just have the filter
plugged directly into the master socket. (I've also tried replacing the
master socket, no luck). In one side of the filter is a phone, in the
other my router.

I attempted to report a line fault with BT, but of course owing to the
intermittent nature they say there is no fault.

The fault is most likely to occur between 19:00 and 22:00 hrs, but
evidence from my router logs suggest it also happens overnight, and
during the day.

Nothing in my set up/wiring has changed in the 7 years I've had ADSL,
and until this year the service has been rock steady. There was a
similar occurrence of this fault over a weekend about 6 months ago, but
that cleared itself.

Nominal values are as follows:-

Downstream Sync 2800 kb/s
Upstream Sync 544 kb/s
SNR 8-10 dB.

I've contacted my ISP, and they are reluctant to help, referring me back
to BT 151.

What is odd is the whistling noise, as I say it ceases the instant I
kill the router, but the crackling continues. Is it possible what I'm
hearing is my ADSL carrier hetrodyning with someone else's owing to a
short, partial short, or crossed pair ? Could the DSLAM be suspect. It's
an LLU service if that's got any significance ?

Comments welcome !!

Mark Carver <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Is it possible what I'm
>hearing is my ADSL carrier hetrodyning with someone else's owing to a

What you are likely hearing is mixing products of your own ADSL signal
caused by a non-linear resistance in your line.

You have a line fault. Talking about ADSL is the worst thing you can do
which will result in buck passing and screwing up your ADSL connection
trying to mask the fault.

Once you are certain it isn't anything your side of the master socket
report it as a voice fault. Call them when it is whistling and crackling
hopefully they will hear the problem and be more likely to believe you.

"Peter Crosland" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) o.uk...
> "Mark Carver" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> I've been suffering occasional but regular ADSL disconnects for a couple
>> of weeks now, and the frequency of them has increased since some heavy
>> rain last Wednesday.
>>
>> The symptoms are as follows:-.
>>
>> Suddenly my router (Cisco AM200) will lose sync with the exchange, or its
>> sync speed will drop dramatically.
>> When I notice this happening I can hear crackles and whistling sounds on
>> the phone line.
>> Curiously if I switch off the router the whistling stops (but not the
>> crackling).
>>
>> This led me to suspect the filter.
>> I changed the filter, but no improvement.
>>
>> I changed the router but no improvement.
>>
>> I have isolated the home's extension network and just have the filter
>> plugged directly into the master socket. (I've also tried replacing the
>> master socket, no luck). In one side of the filter is a phone, in the
>> other my router.
>>
>> I attempted to report a line fault with BT, but of course owing to the
>> intermittent nature they say there is no fault.
>>
>> The fault is most likely to occur between 19:00 and 22:00 hrs, but
>> evidence from my router logs suggest it also happens overnight, and
>> during the day.
>>
>> Nothing in my set up/wiring has changed in the 7 years I've had ADSL, and
>> until this year the service has been rock steady. There was a similar
>> occurrence of this fault over a weekend about 6 months ago, but that
>> cleared itself.
>>
>> Nominal values are as follows:-
>>
>> Downstream Sync 2800 kb/s
>> Upstream Sync 544 kb/s
>> SNR 8-10 dB.
>>
>> I've contacted my ISP, and they are reluctant to help, referring me back
>> to BT 151.
>>
>> What is odd is the whistling noise, as I say it ceases the instant I kill
>> the router, but the crackling continues. Is it possible what I'm hearing
>> is my ADSL carrier hetrodyning with someone else's owing to a short,
>> partial short, or crossed pair ? Could the DSLAM be suspect. It's an LLU
>> service if that's got any significance ?
>
> Two things to try are using a different router and plugging it into the
> test socket behind the removable faceplate. As it is an unbundled service
> your ISP really is responsible for getting it sorted.


No! Testing as described is useful, but if you can hear interference on the
line having tried a different microfilter, router, and phone; then it is a
voice fault and should be reported to BT as such. Beware that the crackling
and whistling may be caused by two different faults, so if the crackling is
fixed but the whistling continues then you must persevere with BT. Do not
be put off by BT saying it must be the router - demonstrage that it is
present regardless of the router that you use. If the technician still
refuses to believe you, get his full name and ask to speak to his line
manager.

--
Graham J

On 31/08/10 17:57, Graham J wrote:

> No! Testing as described is useful, but if you can hear interference on the
> line having tried a different microfilter, router, and phone; then it is a
> voice fault and should be reported to BT as such. Beware that the crackling
> and whistling may be caused by two different faults, so if the crackling is
> fixed but the whistling continues then you must persevere with BT. Do not
> be put off by BT saying it must be the router - demonstrage that it is
> present regardless of the router that you use. If the technician still
> refuses to believe you, get his full name and ask to speak to his line
> manager.

To prove a voice fault, take the faceplate off of the master socket and
plug a filter & phone into the network interface.

It's a good idea to check two different phones & filters just in case
it's a phone or filter problem.

Always report noise that can be heard on a (filtered) phone plugged into
the network interface as a voice fault.

Rgds

Denis McMahon

Denis McMahon wrote:
> On 31/08/10 17:57, Graham J wrote:
>
>> No! Testing as described is useful, but if you can hear interference on the
>> line having tried a different microfilter, router, and phone; then it is a
>> voice fault and should be reported to BT as such. Beware that the crackling
>> and whistling may be caused by two different faults, so if the crackling is
>> fixed but the whistling continues then you must persevere with BT. Do not
>> be put off by BT saying it must be the router - demonstrage that it is
>> present regardless of the router that you use. If the technician still
>> refuses to believe you, get his full name and ask to speak to his line
>> manager.

I'm inclined (as nospam advises) to not mention the ADSL aspect, or at least
use that 'sparingly' ?

> To prove a voice fault, take the faceplate off of the master socket and
> plug a filter & phone into the network interface.

Yes, done that (and tried alternative routers and filters, as already said in
my OP)

> It's a good idea to check two different phones & filters just in case
> it's a phone or filter problem.

See above, and yes I've tried more than one phone.



--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

www.paras.org.uk

Peter Crosland wrote:

> Two things to try are using a different router

See my OP ;-)

> and plugging it into the test
> socket behind the removable faceplate.

Done also

> As it is an unbundled service your
> ISP really is responsible for getting it sorted.

According to them no, if it's a 'line fault' which it seems 90% certain to be,
it's nothing to do with them (so they tell me).

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

www.paras.org.uk

"Mark Carver" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> I've been suffering occasional but regular ADSL disconnects for a couple of weeks now, and the frequency of them has increased
> since some heavy rain last Wednesday.
>
> The symptoms are as follows:-.
>
> Suddenly my router (Cisco AM200) will lose sync with the exchange, or its sync speed will drop dramatically.
> When I notice this happening I can hear crackles and whistling sounds on the phone line.
> Curiously if I switch off the router the whistling stops (but not the crackling).
>
> This led me to suspect the filter.
> I changed the filter, but no improvement.
>
> I changed the router but no improvement.
>
> I have isolated the home's extension network and just have the filter plugged directly into the master socket. (I've also tried
> replacing the master socket, no luck). In one side of the filter is a phone, in the other my router.
>
> I attempted to report a line fault with BT, but of course owing to the intermittent nature they say there is no fault.
>
> The fault is most likely to occur between 19:00 and 22:00 hrs, but evidence from my router logs suggest it also happens overnight,
> and during the day.
>
> Nothing in my set up/wiring has changed in the 7 years I've had ADSL, and until this year the service has been rock steady. There
> was a similar occurrence of this fault over a weekend about 6 months ago, but that cleared itself.
>
> Nominal values are as follows:-
>
> Downstream Sync 2800 kb/s
> Upstream Sync 544 kb/s
> SNR 8-10 dB.
>
> I've contacted my ISP, and they are reluctant to help, referring me back to BT 151.
>
> What is odd is the whistling noise, as I say it ceases the instant I kill the router, but the crackling continues. Is it possible
> what I'm hearing is my ADSL carrier hetrodyning with someone else's owing to a short, partial short, or crossed pair ? Could the
> DSLAM be suspect. It's an LLU service if that's got any significance ?
>
> Comments welcome !!

Actually you are in a good position to get this sorted without much risk of howlround
between your line, and DSL suppliers (with you in the middle) as I will explain later.

Your heterodyning theory is probably pretty much spot on, except it doesn't
even need a second pair and leakage between, all it needs is a non-linear junction
(NLJ) created by a damp, corroded connecter perhaps in a flooded manhole
or junction box between you and the exchange. Such a junction will behave ever-
so-slightly like a diode, mixing the vatious channels or "bins" of the DMT spectrum
together.
No amount of ADSL filtering will get rid of this hash because it really is in the AF domain.
Incidently as soon as you unplug your router the DSLAM goes to sleep, contrary
to popular belief the downstream signal is not present when the modem is disconnected
at the subscribers end.

But the good position you are in stems from the fact you have a noisy (crackleing) line
indipendently of the ADSL, (that's not to say the two are intimately connected).

So before you call Openreach, forget all of the above about NLJs and the like,
Forget your engineering background, and your natural desire to "help"
In fact don't even mention ADSL, it will just give them an excuse to refer
you back to your ISP and for them to escelate it as a line fault if *they* deem it appropriate.

You're just a punter with a crackly line and you want it put right.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

nospam wrote:
t.
>
> Once you are certain it isn't anything your side of the master socket
> report it as a voice fault. Call them when it is whistling and crackling
> hopefully they will hear the problem and be more likely to believe you.

Well, at 20:25 tonight my router lost sync, I picked up the phone, and sure
enough crackles and whistling. Phoned 151 and got to speak to someone while it
was still in full flood, she said she couldn't hear anything her end, (despite
my mother in law commenting on it during a call last night) yet she appeared
to believe me.
She ran a test and said nothing wrong had showed up. Engineer booked to come
Saturday morning, she read me the 'riot act' regarding the 128 quid charge if
they find nothing wrong etc. However she did add a note to the fault report
that the problem only appears around 20:00hrs in the evening.


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

www.paras.org.uk

Graham. wrote:

> You're just a punter with a crackly line and you want it put right.

Thanks Graham, see my other post from a couple of mins ago. Fault reported to
BT, I made no mention of ADSL and nor did they. I just calmly played along
with their questions, and a man is coming on Saturday. I hope to god he's
technically competent !

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

www.paras.org.uk

"Mark Carver" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Denis McMahon wrote:
>> On 31/08/10 17:57, Graham J wrote:
>>
>>> No! Testing as described is useful, but if you can hear interference on
>>> the line having tried a different microfilter, router, and phone; then
>>> it is a voice fault and should be reported to BT as such. Beware that
>>> the crackling and whistling may be caused by two different faults, so if
>>> the crackling is fixed but the whistling continues then you must
>>> persevere with BT. Do not be put off by BT saying it must be the
>>> router - demonstrage that it is present regardless of the router that
>>> you use. If the technician still refuses to believe you, get his full
>>> name and ask to speak to his line manager.
>
> I'm inclined (as nospam advises) to not mention the ADSL aspect, or at
> least use that 'sparingly' ?
>
>> To prove a voice fault, take the faceplate off of the master socket and
>> plug a filter & phone into the network interface.
>
> Yes, done that (and tried alternative routers and filters, as already said
> in my OP)
>
>> It's a good idea to check two different phones & filters just in case
>> it's a phone or filter problem.
>
> See above, and yes I've tried more than one phone.
>
>
>
> --
> Mark
> Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
>
> www.paras.org.uk

The phone needs to be plugged into the test socket without a filter