Disconnected WAN clients

Some background information. I have a Windows 2003 Server that is also
running SQL 2000 on network "172.16.30.0". I have a remote facility,
"172.16.20.0", that is connected by WAN with a full T1 line. When the remote
users login to our SQL application the server creates a routing statement for
each user's machine. If I do a "route print" statement I see the static
routes for the facility, "172.16.20.0 255.255.255.0 172.16.30.11" under both
Active and Persistent routes. I also see the IP addresses of the remote
computers under Active Routes. For some reason the remote users are being
disconnected from the SQL application but their IP addresses still remain
under Active Routes. They cannot log back into the SQL application until I
manually delete their routes from the SQL Server. Once this is done they can
successful log back into the SQL application. Is the server suppose to keep
track of remote machine routing connections? We migrated from Frame Relay to
VPN connectivity and I do not recall seing each remote user's IP address
within the "Route Print" statement previously.

Your "routing system" should not be tied to using the SQL Server. I think
you are creating your own problem.

The LAN/WAN routing should already function independently of anything else.
The usage of the SQL Server should not "monkey" with it.

Another *big* issue is really a "design" issue here. Routing functionality
should never be handled at the Client itself. In a properly designed
topology and routing system the Client should never have anything except the
Default Gatway (0.0.0.0) listed in the routing Table along with the other
default entries. The Device that the Client uses as the Default Gateway is
where all the "action" and "decisions" take place,...this should not be
happening on the Client.

I realize that there may be times where a Static Route on a Client should be
added,...but in 90% of those cases it can, and should, be avoided.

--
Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
www.wandtv.com
-----------------------------------------------------
Understanding the ISA 2004 Access Rule Processing
http://www.isaserver.org/articles/IS...cessRules.html

Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Guidance
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/t...dance/2004.asp
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/t...dance/2000.asp

Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Partners
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/partners/default.asp
-----------------------------------------------------



"Bill Freeze" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:A27F284E-08BC-4F75-86DE-(E-Mail Removed)...
> Some background information. I have a Windows 2003 Server that is also
> running SQL 2000 on network "172.16.30.0". I have a remote facility,
> "172.16.20.0", that is connected by WAN with a full T1 line. When the
remote
> users login to our SQL application the server creates a routing statement
for
> each user's machine. If I do a "route print" statement I see the static
> routes for the facility, "172.16.20.0 255.255.255.0 172.16.30.11" under
both
> Active and Persistent routes. I also see the IP addresses of the remote
> computers under Active Routes. For some reason the remote users are being
> disconnected from the SQL application but their IP addresses still remain
> under Active Routes. They cannot log back into the SQL application until
I
> manually delete their routes from the SQL Server. Once this is done they
can
> successful log back into the SQL application. Is the server suppose to
keep
> track of remote machine routing connections? We migrated from Frame Relay
to
> VPN connectivity and I do not recall seing each remote user's IP address
> within the "Route Print" statement previously.
>
>

Phillip, thank you for your reply. I'm not sure why you wrote a couple of
items but if needed I can explain my situation in more detail.

We are using an ERP system, BaaN, that has its own client, bwclient. When a
user connects to BaaN via the client a route is automatically created by the
client to the SQL Server. Therefore I don't feel as if anyone has "monkey"
with the default settings of the SQL Server. This is the manner in which the
ERP system connects. SAP and Oracle (Who bought PeopleSoft and J.D. Edwards)
have clients which work in the same fashion.

Also, the default gateway on all clients is their site's firewall which next
hop is its router. I'm not sure why you wrote, "The Device that the Client
uses as the Default Gateway is where all the "action" and "decisions" take
place,...this should not be
happening on the Client."

Thank you,

Scott




"Phillip Windell" wrote:

> Your "routing system" should not be tied to using the SQL Server. I think
> you are creating your own problem.
>
> The LAN/WAN routing should already function independently of anything else.
> The usage of the SQL Server should not "monkey" with it.
>
> Another *big* issue is really a "design" issue here. Routing functionality
> should never be handled at the Client itself. In a properly designed
> topology and routing system the Client should never have anything except the
> Default Gatway (0.0.0.0) listed in the routing Table along with the other
> default entries. The Device that the Client uses as the Default Gateway is
> where all the "action" and "decisions" take place,...this should not be
> happening on the Client.
>
> I realize that there may be times where a Static Route on a Client should be
> added,...but in 90% of those cases it can, and should, be avoided.
>
> --
> Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
> www.wandtv.com
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Understanding the ISA 2004 Access Rule Processing
> http://www.isaserver.org/articles/IS...cessRules.html
>
> Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Guidance
> http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/t...dance/2004.asp
> http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/t...dance/2000.asp
>
> Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Partners
> http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/partners/default.asp
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> "Bill Freeze" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:A27F284E-08BC-4F75-86DE-(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Some background information. I have a Windows 2003 Server that is also
> > running SQL 2000 on network "172.16.30.0". I have a remote facility,
> > "172.16.20.0", that is connected by WAN with a full T1 line. When the
> remote
> > users login to our SQL application the server creates a routing statement
> for
> > each user's machine. If I do a "route print" statement I see the static
> > routes for the facility, "172.16.20.0 255.255.255.0 172.16.30.11" under
> both
> > Active and Persistent routes. I also see the IP addresses of the remote
> > computers under Active Routes. For some reason the remote users are being
> > disconnected from the SQL application but their IP addresses still remain
> > under Active Routes. They cannot log back into the SQL application until
> I
> > manually delete their routes from the SQL Server. Once this is done they
> can
> > successful log back into the SQL application. Is the server suppose to
> keep
> > track of remote machine routing connections? We migrated from Frame Relay
> to
> > VPN connectivity and I do not recall seing each remote user's IP address
> > within the "Route Print" statement previously.
> >
> >
>
>
>

If you are using a third party client, it would have been a good idea to
say so in the first place.

Bill Freeze wrote:
> Phillip, thank you for your reply. I'm not sure why you wrote a
> couple of items but if needed I can explain my situation in more
> detail.
>
> We are using an ERP system, BaaN, that has its own client, bwclient.
> When a user connects to BaaN via the client a route is automatically
> created by the client to the SQL Server. Therefore I don't feel as
> if anyone has "monkey" with the default settings of the SQL Server.
> This is the manner in which the ERP system connects. SAP and Oracle
> (Who bought PeopleSoft and J.D. Edwards) have clients which work in
> the same fashion.
>
> Also, the default gateway on all clients is their site's firewall
> which next hop is its router. I'm not sure why you wrote, "The
> Device that the Client uses as the Default Gateway is where all the
> "action" and "decisions" take place,...this should not be
> happening on the Client."
>
> Thank you,
>
> Scott
>
>
>
>
> "Phillip Windell" wrote:
>
>> Your "routing system" should not be tied to using the SQL Server. I
>> think you are creating your own problem.
>>
>> The LAN/WAN routing should already function independently of
>> anything else. The usage of the SQL Server should not "monkey" with
>> it.
>>
>> Another *big* issue is really a "design" issue here. Routing
>> functionality should never be handled at the Client itself. In a
>> properly designed topology and routing system the Client should
>> never have anything except the Default Gatway (0.0.0.0) listed in
>> the routing Table along with the other default entries. The Device
>> that the Client uses as the Default Gateway is where all the
>> "action" and "decisions" take place,...this should not be happening
>> on the Client.
>>
>> I realize that there may be times where a Static Route on a Client
>> should be added,...but in 90% of those cases it can, and should, be
>> avoided.
>>
>> --
>> Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
>> www.wandtv.com
>> -----------------------------------------------------
>> Understanding the ISA 2004 Access Rule Processing
>> http://www.isaserver.org/articles/IS...cessRules.html
>>
>> Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Guidance
>> http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/t...dance/2004.asp
>> http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/t...dance/2000.asp
>>
>> Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Partners
>> http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/partners/default.asp
>> -----------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> "Bill Freeze" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:A27F284E-08BC-4F75-86DE-(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> Some background information. I have a Windows 2003 Server that is
>>> also running SQL 2000 on network "172.16.30.0". I have a remote
>>> facility, "172.16.20.0", that is connected by WAN with a full T1
>>> line. When the remote users login to our SQL application the
>>> server creates a routing statement for each user's machine. If I
>>> do a "route print" statement I see the static routes for the
>>> facility, "172.16.20.0 255.255.255.0 172.16.30.11" under both
>>> Active and Persistent routes. I also see the IP addresses of the
>>> remote computers under Active Routes. For some reason the remote
>>> users are being disconnected from the SQL application but their IP
>>> addresses still remain under Active Routes. They cannot log back
>>> into the SQL application until I manually delete their routes from
>>> the SQL Server. Once this is done they can successful log back
>>> into the SQL application. Is the server suppose to keep track of
>>> remote machine routing connections? We migrated from Frame Relay
>>> to VPN connectivity and I do not recall seing each remote user's IP
>>> address within the "Route Print" statement previously.

Bill,

Thank you for your value added comment.


"Bill Grant" wrote:

> If you are using a third party client, it would have been a good idea to
> say so in the first place.
>
> Bill Freeze wrote:
> > Phillip, thank you for your reply. I'm not sure why you wrote a
> > couple of items but if needed I can explain my situation in more
> > detail.
> >
> > We are using an ERP system, BaaN, that has its own client, bwclient.
> > When a user connects to BaaN via the client a route is automatically
> > created by the client to the SQL Server. Therefore I don't feel as
> > if anyone has "monkey" with the default settings of the SQL Server.
> > This is the manner in which the ERP system connects. SAP and Oracle
> > (Who bought PeopleSoft and J.D. Edwards) have clients which work in
> > the same fashion.
> >
> > Also, the default gateway on all clients is their site's firewall
> > which next hop is its router. I'm not sure why you wrote, "The
> > Device that the Client uses as the Default Gateway is where all the
> > "action" and "decisions" take place,...this should not be
> > happening on the Client."
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Scott
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Phillip Windell" wrote:
> >
> >> Your "routing system" should not be tied to using the SQL Server. I
> >> think you are creating your own problem.
> >>
> >> The LAN/WAN routing should already function independently of
> >> anything else. The usage of the SQL Server should not "monkey" with
> >> it.
> >>
> >> Another *big* issue is really a "design" issue here. Routing
> >> functionality should never be handled at the Client itself. In a
> >> properly designed topology and routing system the Client should
> >> never have anything except the Default Gatway (0.0.0.0) listed in
> >> the routing Table along with the other default entries. The Device
> >> that the Client uses as the Default Gateway is where all the
> >> "action" and "decisions" take place,...this should not be happening
> >> on the Client.
> >>
> >> I realize that there may be times where a Static Route on a Client
> >> should be added,...but in 90% of those cases it can, and should, be
> >> avoided.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
> >> www.wandtv.com
> >> -----------------------------------------------------
> >> Understanding the ISA 2004 Access Rule Processing
> >> http://www.isaserver.org/articles/IS...cessRules.html
> >>
> >> Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Guidance
> >> http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/t...dance/2004.asp
> >> http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/t...dance/2000.asp
> >>
> >> Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Partners
> >> http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/partners/default.asp
> >> -----------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> "Bill Freeze" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> >> news:A27F284E-08BC-4F75-86DE-(E-Mail Removed)...
> >>> Some background information. I have a Windows 2003 Server that is
> >>> also running SQL 2000 on network "172.16.30.0". I have a remote
> >>> facility, "172.16.20.0", that is connected by WAN with a full T1
> >>> line. When the remote users login to our SQL application the
> >>> server creates a routing statement for each user's machine. If I
> >>> do a "route print" statement I see the static routes for the
> >>> facility, "172.16.20.0 255.255.255.0 172.16.30.11" under both
> >>> Active and Persistent routes. I also see the IP addresses of the
> >>> remote computers under Active Routes. For some reason the remote
> >>> users are being disconnected from the SQL application but their IP
> >>> addresses still remain under Active Routes. They cannot log back
> >>> into the SQL application until I manually delete their routes from
> >>> the SQL Server. Once this is done they can successful log back
> >>> into the SQL application. Is the server suppose to keep track of
> >>> remote machine routing connections? We migrated from Frame Relay
> >>> to VPN connectivity and I do not recall seing each remote user's IP
> >>> address within the "Route Print" statement previously.
>
>
>

There was nothing else I could add. I have never used that client. But
the client software is almost certainly the cause of your problems.

Bill Freeze wrote:
> Bill,
>
> Thank you for your value added comment.
>
>
> "Bill Grant" wrote:
>
>> If you are using a third party client, it would have been a good
>> idea to say so in the first place.
>>
>> Bill Freeze wrote:
>>> Phillip, thank you for your reply. I'm not sure why you wrote a
>>> couple of items but if needed I can explain my situation in more
>>> detail.
>>>
>>> We are using an ERP system, BaaN, that has its own client, bwclient.
>>> When a user connects to BaaN via the client a route is automatically
>>> created by the client to the SQL Server. Therefore I don't feel as
>>> if anyone has "monkey" with the default settings of the SQL Server.
>>> This is the manner in which the ERP system connects. SAP and Oracle
>>> (Who bought PeopleSoft and J.D. Edwards) have clients which work in
>>> the same fashion.
>>>
>>> Also, the default gateway on all clients is their site's firewall
>>> which next hop is its router. I'm not sure why you wrote, "The
>>> Device that the Client uses as the Default Gateway is where all the
>>> "action" and "decisions" take place,...this should not be
>>> happening on the Client."
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Phillip Windell" wrote:
>>>
>>>> Your "routing system" should not be tied to using the SQL Server. I
>>>> think you are creating your own problem.
>>>>
>>>> The LAN/WAN routing should already function independently of
>>>> anything else. The usage of the SQL Server should not "monkey" with
>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>> Another *big* issue is really a "design" issue here. Routing
>>>> functionality should never be handled at the Client itself. In a
>>>> properly designed topology and routing system the Client should
>>>> never have anything except the Default Gatway (0.0.0.0) listed in
>>>> the routing Table along with the other default entries. The Device
>>>> that the Client uses as the Default Gateway is where all the
>>>> "action" and "decisions" take place,...this should not be happening
>>>> on the Client.
>>>>
>>>> I realize that there may be times where a Static Route on a Client
>>>> should be added,...but in 90% of those cases it can, and should, be
>>>> avoided.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
>>>> www.wandtv.com
>>>> -----------------------------------------------------
>>>> Understanding the ISA 2004 Access Rule Processing
>>>> http://www.isaserver.org/articles/IS...cessRules.html
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Guidance
>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/t...dance/2004.asp
>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/t...dance/2000.asp
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Partners
>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/partners/default.asp
>>>> -----------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Bill Freeze" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>>>> message news:A27F284E-08BC-4F75-86DE-(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>> Some background information. I have a Windows 2003 Server that is
>>>>> also running SQL 2000 on network "172.16.30.0". I have a remote
>>>>> facility, "172.16.20.0", that is connected by WAN with a full T1
>>>>> line. When the remote users login to our SQL application the
>>>>> server creates a routing statement for each user's machine. If I
>>>>> do a "route print" statement I see the static routes for the
>>>>> facility, "172.16.20.0 255.255.255.0 172.16.30.11" under both
>>>>> Active and Persistent routes. I also see the IP addresses of the
>>>>> remote computers under Active Routes. For some reason the remote
>>>>> users are being disconnected from the SQL application but their IP
>>>>> addresses still remain under Active Routes. They cannot log back
>>>>> into the SQL application until I manually delete their routes from
>>>>> the SQL Server. Once this is done they can successful log back
>>>>> into the SQL application. Is the server suppose to keep track of
>>>>> remote machine routing connections? We migrated from Frame Relay
>>>>> to VPN connectivity and I do not recall seing each remote user's
>>>>> IP address within the "Route Print" statement previously.