Differing download rates - same exchange

My next door neighbours have been having problems with their internet access
and asked me to have a look at it. The usual children installing various
cruft was at the heart of it, but in the process I checked their download
speed and it maxes out at 475 ~ 480, pings are fairly laggy 250 ~ 500ms and
it all feels sluggish.

After replacing their tangle of cables and seeing no difference, I check at
the BT broadband site. My telephone number yields a max of 4Mb (and I get
2.5 -> 3.0, very satisfactory), but their number yields a max of 0.5Mb.

As we are semi-detached and separated only by 2ft of stone wall, is there
something BT need to be doing at the exchange to correct this? ISTR there
was some discussion that a DACSed line could cause problems, or have I got
the wrong end of the stick

"Sean Inglis" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> My next door neighbours have been having problems with their internet
> access
> and asked me to have a look at it. The usual children installing various
> cruft was at the heart of it, but in the process I checked their download
> speed and it maxes out at 475 ~ 480, pings are fairly laggy 250 ~ 500ms
> and
> it all feels sluggish.
>
> After replacing their tangle of cables and seeing no difference, I check
> at
> the BT broadband site. My telephone number yields a max of 4Mb (and I get
> 2.5 -> 3.0, very satisfactory), but their number yields a max of 0.5Mb.
>
> As we are semi-detached and separated only by 2ft of stone wall, is there
> something BT need to be doing at the exchange to correct this? ISTR there
> was some discussion that a DACSed line could cause problems, or have I got
> the wrong end of the stick


Wrong end of the stick. ADSL does not work at all on a dacsed line so if
shes got broadband then its not on a dacs.
Are you both using the same ISP?

Sean Inglis wrote:
> My next door neighbours have been having problems with their
> internet access and asked me to have a look at it. The usual
> children installing various cruft was at the heart of it, but in
> the process I checked their download speed and it maxes out at 475
> ~ 480, pings are fairly laggy 250 ~ 500ms and it all feels sluggish.
>
> After replacing their tangle of cables and seeing no difference, I
> check at the BT broadband site. My telephone number yields a max of
> 4Mb (and I get
> 2.5 -> 3.0, very satisfactory), but their number yields a max of
> 0.5Mb.
>
> As we are semi-detached and separated only by 2ft of stone wall, is
> there something BT need to be doing at the exchange to correct
> this? ISTR there was some discussion that a DACSed line could cause
> problems, or have I got the wrong end of the stick

No DACS but different routings & different cables...

Sean Inglis wrote:
> My next door neighbours have been having problems with their internet
> access and asked me to have a look at it. The usual children
> installing various cruft was at the heart of it, but in the process I
> checked their download speed and it maxes out at 475 ~ 480, pings are
> fairly laggy 250 ~ 500ms and it all feels sluggish.
>
> After replacing their tangle of cables and seeing no difference, I
> check at the BT broadband site. My telephone number yields a max of
> 4Mb (and I get
> 2.5 -> 3.0, very satisfactory), but their number yields a max of
> 0.5Mb.
>
> As we are semi-detached and separated only by 2ft of stone wall, is
> there something BT need to be doing at the exchange to correct this?
> ISTR there was some discussion that a DACSed line could cause
> problems, or have I got the wrong end of the stick

Check two things:

1) broadband package. Maybe they are on a fixed rate of 0.5Mb ?

2) their internal phone wiring. Was your speedtest done from the master
socket with all the house wiring removed. Check their house wiring done
correctly, not tapped into the "BT side" of the master socket! Bad domestic
phone extension wiring could be the factor.






--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

"Sean Inglis" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> My next door neighbours have been having problems with their internet
> access
> and asked me to have a look at it.

Point them to this group so we can all ask them for more details.

> The usual children installing various
> cruft was at the heart of it,

What have they admitted to installing?

>but in the process I checked their download
> speed and it maxes out at 475 ~ 480, pings are fairly laggy 250 ~ 500ms
> and
> it all feels sluggish.
>

Tell them to contact their ISP and report a fault if they are paying for a
particular package. What rate does the router or modem sync at?

> After replacing their tangle of cables and seeing no difference,

So why replace them if it didn't make any difference! A load of wires
will make no difference to internet speed.

> I check at
> the BT broadband site. My telephone number yields a max of 4Mb (and I get
> 2.5 -> 3.0, very satisfactory), but their number yields a max of 0.5Mb.
>

So they might be on a different exchange and have miles more cable than you.
They would know if the speed has suddenly dropped or whether it has
always been like this.

> As we are semi-detached and separated only by 2ft of stone wall, is there
> something BT need to be doing at the exchange to correct this?

Not really, phone lines were put up for phone calls and not data, so
whatever
you get from them is a bonus. Tell your neighbour to speak to the ISP, if
there
is a problem it will be sorted - if not, they will get the bill and you will
probably
be known as the expert who isn't really one!


>ISTR there
> was some discussion that a DACSed line could cause problems, or have I got
> the wrong end of the stick
>

Internet doesn't work on that type of line, never has and never will.

On Jul 13, 10:57*am, "Paul P" <Pa...@mix.net.uk> wrote:
> "Sean Inglis" <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> > My next door neighbours have been having problems with their internet
> > access
> > and asked me to have a look at it.
>
> Point them to this group so we can all ask them for more details.

Thanks, but they are uninterested in engaging.

>
> > The usual children installing various
> > cruft was at the heart of it,
>
> What have they admitted to installing?

They are absent, but things went downhill after a visit in the week
and the appearance of a rash of extra desktop icons. This is resolved
in any case.

>
> >but in the process I checked their download
> > speed and it maxes out at 475 ~ 480, pings are fairly laggy 250 ~ 500ms
> > and
> > it all feels sluggish.
>
> Tell them to contact their ISP and report a fault if they are paying for a
> particular package. *What rate does the router or modem sync at?
>
> > After replacing their tangle of cables and seeing no difference,
>
> So why replace them if it didn't make any difference! *A load of wires
> will make no difference to internet speed.

A bit of an odd statement - how would you know a cable wasn't at fault
*without* replacing it with a known good cable?

I think you misunderstand and disagree that the arrangement of
internal cabling and adaptors / splitter at the master socket can have
no effect - if that's what you're saying?

As it is, the original arrangement was:

1) At the single master socket, ancient yellowing splitter with two
standard telephone sockets. Another moulded lead is built into the
splitter but has been snipped at some point.

One socket is a dect phone. The other has ADSL splitter number one
attached.

2) From splitter number 1, a 5m telephone extension cable running
under the carper to a point close to the PC.

3) At the other end of the extension, splitter number 2. The ADSL
modem and another telephone are attached to this splitter.

The whole lot is fairly ancient and battered.

For the purposes of testing, I replaced everything with a direct
connection 1.5m cable, master socket -> ADSL model with no difference.


>
> > I check at
> > the BT broadband site. My telephone number yields a max of 4Mb (and I get
> > 2.5 -> 3.0, very satisfactory), but their number yields a max of 0.5Mb.
>
> So they might be on a different exchange and have miles more cable than you.
> They would know if the speed has suddenly dropped or whether it has
> always been like this.
>

The exchange is identical according to:

http://www.productsandservices.bt.co...band/speedtest

(Darley Dale, no LLU)

No surprise given the geography of the area - we are pretty isolated.

This is also the source of the information that their line would
support a theoretical maximum of 0.5Mb whereas mine supports 4Mb -
both figures borne out by our respective speed tests.

AOL is their ISP, but they still pay line rental to BT.

> > As we are semi-detached and separated only by 2ft of stone wall, is there
> > something BT need to be doing at the exchange to correct this?
>
> Not really, phone lines were put up for phone calls and not data, so
> whatever
> you get from them is a bonus. *Tell your neighbour to speak to the ISP,if
> there
> is a problem it will be sorted - if not, they will get the bill and you will
> probably
> be known as the expert who isn't really one!

I've already advised them to pursue it through both (they are still
paying line rental to BT).

>
> >ISTR there
> > was some discussion that a DACSed line could cause problems, or have I got
> > the wrong end of the stick
>
> Internet doesn't work on that type of line, never has and never will.

I believe it works for (slow) dialup, but thanks for another
confirmation on the broadband side of it.

On Jul 12, 9:33*pm, "Nigel Cliffe" <m...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Sean Inglis wrote:
> > My next door neighbours have been having problems with their internet
> > access and asked me to have a look at it. The usual children
> > installing various cruft was at the heart of it, but in the process I
> > checked their download speed and it maxes out at 475 ~ 480, pings are
> > fairly laggy 250 ~ 500ms and it all feels sluggish.
>
> > After replacing their tangle of cables and seeing no difference, I
> > check at the BT broadband site. My telephone number yields a max of
> > 4Mb (and I get
> > 2.5 -> 3.0, very satisfactory), but their number yields a max of
> > 0.5Mb.
>
> > As we are semi-detached and separated only by 2ft of stone wall, is
> > there something BT need to be doing at the exchange to correct this?
> > ISTR there was some discussion that a DACSed line could cause
> > problems, or have I got the wrong end of the stick
>
> Check two things:
>
> 1) broadband package. Maybe they are on a fixed rate of 0.5Mb ?

They were sold an "up to 8Mb" package from AOL, but still pay line
rental to BT.

BT's broadband checker show a theoretical maximum of 0.5Mb for their
number but 4.0Mb for mine at the same exchange (Darley Dale, no LLU).
These figures are borne out by observation.

>
> 2) their internal phone wiring. Was your speedtest done from the master
> socket with all the house wiring removed. Check their house wiring done
> correctly, not tapped into the "BT side" of the master socket! *Bad domestic
> phone extension wiring could be the factor.

Thanks, yes I tried that. Replaced a bit of a rats nest of splitters,
extensions and adaptors with a single goof 1,5m master socket to ADSL
modem cable and it still topped out at ~0.5Mb in tests.

This was before I'd checked at BT's site for their take on what was
supported on each line.

> BT's broadband checker show a theoretical maximum of 0.5Mb for their
> number but 4.0Mb for mine at the same exchange (Darley Dale, no LLU).
> These figures are borne out by observation.

So now you go into each of your routers control panels and get
the sync speed, SNR, and your respective attenuation figures.
Report back.
Adjacent properties do not necessarily follow the same route
back to the exchange, if this is the case then I would expect
to see different attenuation figures.

Sean Inglis wrote:

> My next door neighbours have been having problems with their internet access
> and asked me to have a look at it. The usual children installing various
> cruft was at the heart of it, but in the process I checked their download
> speed and it maxes out at 475 ~ 480, pings are fairly laggy 250 ~ 500ms and
> it all feels sluggish.

That's what you get with a crap ISP. NO WAY should pings be that long except to
distant international locations. I'm getting 118ms to Dallas for example and
178ms to another USA destination.

**** Ping bbc.co.uk for example. I get 10ms, pretty repeatably too **** ( via
Idnet, therefore a good benchmark ).

You get what you pay for. Who's their ISP ?

Graham

Eeyore wrote:
>
> **** Ping bbc.co.uk for example. I get 10ms, pretty repeatably too **** ( via
> Idnet, therefore a good benchmark ).

FWIW ping bbc.co.uk here on Be broadband I get 15ms, so I'm 33% worse
off....

--
Adrian C