DHCP and Wireless problem

Oh how I love networks... right, can anybody help, I seem to have a
funny networking problem.

I think the problem is down to the DHCP side of my router but I am not
too sure. I have a D-Link ADSL modem (DSL-300G+) connected to my Netgear
wirelessly router (WGR614), this is then ethernet connected to my PC and
wirelessly connected to my laptop.

Since both the modem and the router are DHCP devices and having talked
to Netgear who advised me how to set it up I have the Modem set up with
an IP address of 192.168.0.1 and the router as 172.10.0.1 with an IP
address range to 172.10.0.50. Now this is working a treat with my
ethernet connected pc, it grabs an IP address from the router
dynamically and everything is fine, however I am having some
considerable problems with the wireless laptop.

When I start the laptop up, it finds the network no problem at all,
however if the TCP/IP settings are set to dynamically assign an IP
address nothing happens, for ages, then from nowhere it pops up telling
me its connected to my wireless connection with an IP address of
169.354.116.195 (or something like that). Which is odd as I would expect
it to assign a 172.10.0.? IP address... If I manually assign it an
address 172.10.0.5 for instance it works a treat.

Could it be the wireless range, as it does occasionally seem to work
when the signal strength is 'Excellent'?

Also the range of the wireless network is pretty crap, I have the router
sat on my desk upstairs and I can't get a signal downstairs. I live in a
pretty new house with studwork walls so its not a lead lined fall out
shelter or anything! The signal falls away even if I move into the room
next door! I am using a D-Link AirPlus (DWL-G650) PCMICA card in the
lappy if it helps.

Any suggestions?

The normal range of IP addresses for private networks has the first two sets
of numbers 192.168.... You have told your router to assign addresses in a
non-private range and your laptop doesn't seem to like it. That might be
the problem. My router by default assigns addresses beginning with
192.168.1.100 and upwards.

I am not surprised about range of your wireless. My router gets upstairs
(straight upstairs) but that is about it. Fortunately, that's where the
other PC is.

"Ben Dyer" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bljenl$d8tms$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Oh how I love networks... right, can anybody help, I seem to have a
> funny networking problem.
>
> I think the problem is down to the DHCP side of my router but I am not
> too sure. I have a D-Link ADSL modem (DSL-300G+) connected to my Netgear
> wirelessly router (WGR614), this is then ethernet connected to my PC and
> wirelessly connected to my laptop.
>
> Since both the modem and the router are DHCP devices and having talked
> to Netgear who advised me how to set it up I have the Modem set up with
> an IP address of 192.168.0.1 and the router as 172.10.0.1 with an IP
> address range to 172.10.0.50. Now this is working a treat with my
> ethernet connected pc, it grabs an IP address from the router
> dynamically and everything is fine, however I am having some
> considerable problems with the wireless laptop.
>
> When I start the laptop up, it finds the network no problem at all,
> however if the TCP/IP settings are set to dynamically assign an IP
> address nothing happens, for ages, then from nowhere it pops up telling
> me its connected to my wireless connection with an IP address of
> 169.354.116.195 (or something like that). Which is odd as I would expect
> it to assign a 172.10.0.? IP address... If I manually assign it an
> address 172.10.0.5 for instance it works a treat.
>
> Could it be the wireless range, as it does occasionally seem to work
> when the signal strength is 'Excellent'?
>
> Also the range of the wireless network is pretty crap, I have the router
> sat on my desk upstairs and I can't get a signal downstairs. I live in a
> pretty new house with studwork walls so its not a lead lined fall out
> shelter or anything! The signal falls away even if I move into the room
> next door! I am using a D-Link AirPlus (DWL-G650) PCMICA card in the
> lappy if it helps.
>
> Any suggestions?
>

On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 10:15:38 +0100, Ben Dyer <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Oh how I love networks... right, can anybody help, I seem to have a
>funny networking problem.
>
>I think the problem is down to the DHCP side of my router but I am not
>too sure.

Can't help there - pretty new myself.

>Also the range of the wireless network is pretty crap,

I've got a Netgear 54mbps Access Point and Netgear 54mbps card in my
laptop, signal is very good, any room in my bungalow and also about
sixty feet away at the top of the garden beyond one solid brick wall.

My handheld however is marginally better than bluetooth, not happy
with it at all, using a Dell branded card which on a Dell newsgroup
has not got a good reputation.

Bearing in mind that the wireless cards ** should ** automatically
fall back with the speed the range should be usable within a house
even if it is not at full speed.

Have you tried different channels.

Geoff Lane

Ben Dyer <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in news:bljenl$d8tms$1@ID-
206965.news.uni-berlin.de:

> snip
> the router (is set up) as 172.10.0.1 with a (DHCP) IP
> address range to 172.10.0.50.
> snip
> this is working with my ethernet connected pc, it grabs an IP address
> from the router dynamically and everything is fine, however I am
> having some problems with the wireless laptop.
>
> snip
> nothing happens, for ages, then from nowhere it pops up telling
> me its connected to my wireless connection with an IP address of
> 169.354.116.195 (or something like that). Which is odd as I would
> expect it to assign a 172.10.0.? IP address...
> If I manually assign it an address 172.10.0.5 for instance it works
> snip

/\/\/\/\
The "169.x.x.x" IP assignment that ultimately "pops up" is a default
assignment made by Windows when it can't get anything else (DHCP from
the router to your laptop was not successful).

IMHO ... when the DHCP assignment fails you have an extremly poor
connection (it has to be good in both directions). Making the static IP
assignment allows it to work ... even if somewhat poorly ... and
probably with an enormous packet loss.

campbell

Are you using WPA-PSK encryption? If so, I have a similar problem. I have
written a number of posts to this newsgroup and to
microsoft.public.windows.networking.wireless outlining aspect of this
problem. My current thought is that it's a timing issue relating to the
start up of the TCPIP service. There seems to be a five second
initialization period, after which the service restarts itself and cancels
the DHCP request. Because wireless connections are slower (and initializing
high encryption would slow things down more), this five second period may
expire.

Below I've copied my recent post to microsoft....wireless newsgroup.

Regards,

Peter

------------------

Further to my earlier posts regarding difficulties using WPA to get an
address from the DHCP server on boot up...

I wonder whether this is really simply a timing problem. Let me explain.
When I have DHCP enabled on the wireless card, I get 30-40 events on boot up
relating to the starting of the TCPIP and DHCP service. The TCPIP messages
are "Information" and indicate that the system has detected that the
wireless adapter "was connected to the network, and has initiated normal
operation over the network adapter." This message is followed by a
"Warning" from the DHCP service that "Your computer was not able to renew
its address from the network (from the DHCP Server) for the Network Card
[...]. The following error occurred: The operation was canceled by the user
[...]".

(I have further noticed that, even when I have DHCP disabled and have
assigned a static address, I usually 6-8 instances of the TCPIP network
connection detection message before the boot up continues.)

These message repeat at very regular 5 second intervals. I am wondering
whether the problem is simply that the TCPIP service is set to give the
connection 5 seconds to initialize and, if it hasn't, it attempts to restart
the initialization (thus cancelling the DHCP attempt to get an address). I
can imagine that this issue arises in the WPA context because, with high
encryption, the time to initialize the connection increases. Perhaps this
issue settles down after boot up because, once all other services have
initialized, there is less load on the system and the connection can
initialize within the 5 second limit.

I know there used to be a registery setting for the TCPIP service called
TCPInitialRTT (or InitialRTT in Windows NT). It does not seem that a
setting of this sort under Windows XP.

Any thoughts?

Regards,

Peter


"Ben Dyer" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bljenl$d8tms$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Oh how I love networks... right, can anybody help, I seem to have a
> funny networking problem.
>
> I think the problem is down to the DHCP side of my router but I am not
> too sure. I have a D-Link ADSL modem (DSL-300G+) connected to my Netgear
> wirelessly router (WGR614), this is then ethernet connected to my PC and
> wirelessly connected to my laptop.
>
> Since both the modem and the router are DHCP devices and having talked
> to Netgear who advised me how to set it up I have the Modem set up with
> an IP address of 192.168.0.1 and the router as 172.10.0.1 with an IP
> address range to 172.10.0.50. Now this is working a treat with my
> ethernet connected pc, it grabs an IP address from the router
> dynamically and everything is fine, however I am having some
> considerable problems with the wireless laptop.
>
> When I start the laptop up, it finds the network no problem at all,
> however if the TCP/IP settings are set to dynamically assign an IP
> address nothing happens, for ages, then from nowhere it pops up telling
> me its connected to my wireless connection with an IP address of
> 169.354.116.195 (or something like that). Which is odd as I would expect
> it to assign a 172.10.0.? IP address... If I manually assign it an
> address 172.10.0.5 for instance it works a treat.
>
> Could it be the wireless range, as it does occasionally seem to work
> when the signal strength is 'Excellent'?
>
> Also the range of the wireless network is pretty crap, I have the router
> sat on my desk upstairs and I can't get a signal downstairs. I live in a
> pretty new house with studwork walls so its not a lead lined fall out
> shelter or anything! The signal falls away even if I move into the room
> next door! I am using a D-Link AirPlus (DWL-G650) PCMICA card in the
> lappy if it helps.
>
> Any suggestions?
>

What OS on the laptop? Try bringing the laptop next to the router to see if
DHCP assignment improves. Check the channel on both the router and laptop.
Your problem appears to be either signal strength related or OS related.
Win98 sometimes is very hard to get a wireless connection. Any newer drivers
for your laptop wireless card?

"Ben Dyer" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bljenl$d8tms$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Oh how I love networks... right, can anybody help, I seem to have a
> funny networking problem.
>
> I think the problem is down to the DHCP side of my router but I am not
> too sure. I have a D-Link ADSL modem (DSL-300G+) connected to my Netgear
> wirelessly router (WGR614), this is then ethernet connected to my PC and
> wirelessly connected to my laptop.
>
> Since both the modem and the router are DHCP devices and having talked
> to Netgear who advised me how to set it up I have the Modem set up with
> an IP address of 192.168.0.1 and the router as 172.10.0.1 with an IP
> address range to 172.10.0.50. Now this is working a treat with my
> ethernet connected pc, it grabs an IP address from the router
> dynamically and everything is fine, however I am having some
> considerable problems with the wireless laptop.
>
> When I start the laptop up, it finds the network no problem at all,
> however if the TCP/IP settings are set to dynamically assign an IP
> address nothing happens, for ages, then from nowhere it pops up telling
> me its connected to my wireless connection with an IP address of
> 169.354.116.195 (or something like that). Which is odd as I would expect
> it to assign a 172.10.0.? IP address... If I manually assign it an
> address 172.10.0.5 for instance it works a treat.
>
> Could it be the wireless range, as it does occasionally seem to work
> when the signal strength is 'Excellent'?
>
> Also the range of the wireless network is pretty crap, I have the router
> sat on my desk upstairs and I can't get a signal downstairs. I live in a
> pretty new house with studwork walls so its not a lead lined fall out
> shelter or anything! The signal falls away even if I move into the room
> next door! I am using a D-Link AirPlus (DWL-G650) PCMICA card in the
> lappy if it helps.
>
> Any suggestions?
>

This is not a signal strength issue. If the IP address is entered manually,
the connection works, right Ben?


"John" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:C7gfb.8709$(E-Mail Removed)...
> What OS on the laptop? Try bringing the laptop next to the router to see
if
> DHCP assignment improves. Check the channel on both the router and laptop.
> Your problem appears to be either signal strength related or OS related.
> Win98 sometimes is very hard to get a wireless connection. Any newer
drivers
> for your laptop wireless card?
>
> "Ben Dyer" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:bljenl$d8tms$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Oh how I love networks... right, can anybody help, I seem to have a
> > funny networking problem.
> >
> > I think the problem is down to the DHCP side of my router but I am not
> > too sure. I have a D-Link ADSL modem (DSL-300G+) connected to my Netgear
> > wirelessly router (WGR614), this is then ethernet connected to my PC and
> > wirelessly connected to my laptop.
> >
> > Since both the modem and the router are DHCP devices and having talked
> > to Netgear who advised me how to set it up I have the Modem set up with
> > an IP address of 192.168.0.1 and the router as 172.10.0.1 with an IP
> > address range to 172.10.0.50. Now this is working a treat with my
> > ethernet connected pc, it grabs an IP address from the router
> > dynamically and everything is fine, however I am having some
> > considerable problems with the wireless laptop.
> >
> > When I start the laptop up, it finds the network no problem at all,
> > however if the TCP/IP settings are set to dynamically assign an IP
> > address nothing happens, for ages, then from nowhere it pops up telling
> > me its connected to my wireless connection with an IP address of
> > 169.354.116.195 (or something like that). Which is odd as I would expect
> > it to assign a 172.10.0.? IP address... If I manually assign it an
> > address 172.10.0.5 for instance it works a treat.
> >
> > Could it be the wireless range, as it does occasionally seem to work
> > when the signal strength is 'Excellent'?
> >
> > Also the range of the wireless network is pretty crap, I have the router
> > sat on my desk upstairs and I can't get a signal downstairs. I live in a
> > pretty new house with studwork walls so its not a lead lined fall out
> > shelter or anything! The signal falls away even if I move into the room
> > next door! I am using a D-Link AirPlus (DWL-G650) PCMICA card in the
> > lappy if it helps.
> >
> > Any suggestions?
> >
>
>

Hi Ben;
I suspect the problem is the IP address that Netgear told you to use on the
router.
The 172 block starts at 172.16.0.0 you are not wihin an authorized range and
the wireless setup may be rejecting the range that the router tries to
supply. By manually assigning an address you force it to accept.
Move your range up into the proper setting and see if that helps. As noted
the 169 address only indicates that the card was unable to obtain an address
from the dhcp server. By the way if you read the modem manual Dlink
recommends an IP address for the router in the 10.0.0.0 range so you may
want to try that.
HTH;
TomA
"Ben Dyer" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bljenl$d8tms$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Oh how I love networks... right, can anybody help, I seem to have a
> funny networking problem.
>
> I think the problem is down to the DHCP side of my router but I am not
> too sure. I have a D-Link ADSL modem (DSL-300G+) connected to my Netgear
> wirelessly router (WGR614), this is then ethernet connected to my PC and
> wirelessly connected to my laptop.
>
> Since both the modem and the router are DHCP devices and having talked
> to Netgear who advised me how to set it up I have the Modem set up with
> an IP address of 192.168.0.1 and the router as 172.10.0.1 with an IP
> address range to 172.10.0.50. Now this is working a treat with my
> ethernet connected pc, it grabs an IP address from the router
> dynamically and everything is fine, however I am having some
> considerable problems with the wireless laptop.
>
> When I start the laptop up, it finds the network no problem at all,
> however if the TCP/IP settings are set to dynamically assign an IP
> address nothing happens, for ages, then from nowhere it pops up telling
> me its connected to my wireless connection with an IP address of
> 169.354.116.195 (or something like that). Which is odd as I would expect
> it to assign a 172.10.0.? IP address... If I manually assign it an
> address 172.10.0.5 for instance it works a treat.
>
> Could it be the wireless range, as it does occasionally seem to work
> when the signal strength is 'Excellent'?
>
> Also the range of the wireless network is pretty crap, I have the router
> sat on my desk upstairs and I can't get a signal downstairs. I live in a
> pretty new house with studwork walls so its not a lead lined fall out
> shelter or anything! The signal falls away even if I move into the room
> next door! I am using a D-Link AirPlus (DWL-G650) PCMICA card in the
> lappy if it helps.
>
> Any suggestions?
>

A forced IP will remove the DHCP assignment problem but IF there is a weak
signal, he'll still have an intermittent Internet connection even with the
fixed IP
..
"Peter Copeland" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:zwhfb.17018$(E-Mail Removed). ..
> This is not a signal strength issue. If the IP address is entered
manually,
> the connection works, right Ben?
>
>
> "John" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:C7gfb.8709$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > What OS on the laptop? Try bringing the laptop next to the router to see
> if
> > DHCP assignment improves. Check the channel on both the router and
laptop.
> > Your problem appears to be either signal strength related or OS related.
> > Win98 sometimes is very hard to get a wireless connection. Any newer
> drivers
> > for your laptop wireless card?
> >
> > "Ben Dyer" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:bljenl$d8tms$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > Oh how I love networks... right, can anybody help, I seem to have a
> > > funny networking problem.
> > >
> > > I think the problem is down to the DHCP side of my router but I am not
> > > too sure. I have a D-Link ADSL modem (DSL-300G+) connected to my
Netgear
> > > wirelessly router (WGR614), this is then ethernet connected to my PC
and
> > > wirelessly connected to my laptop.
> > >
> > > Since both the modem and the router are DHCP devices and having talked
> > > to Netgear who advised me how to set it up I have the Modem set up
with
> > > an IP address of 192.168.0.1 and the router as 172.10.0.1 with an IP
> > > address range to 172.10.0.50. Now this is working a treat with my
> > > ethernet connected pc, it grabs an IP address from the router
> > > dynamically and everything is fine, however I am having some
> > > considerable problems with the wireless laptop.
> > >
> > > When I start the laptop up, it finds the network no problem at all,
> > > however if the TCP/IP settings are set to dynamically assign an IP
> > > address nothing happens, for ages, then from nowhere it pops up
telling
> > > me its connected to my wireless connection with an IP address of
> > > 169.354.116.195 (or something like that). Which is odd as I would
expect
> > > it to assign a 172.10.0.? IP address... If I manually assign it an
> > > address 172.10.0.5 for instance it works a treat.
> > >
> > > Could it be the wireless range, as it does occasionally seem to work
> > > when the signal strength is 'Excellent'?
> > >
> > > Also the range of the wireless network is pretty crap, I have the
router
> > > sat on my desk upstairs and I can't get a signal downstairs. I live in
a
> > > pretty new house with studwork walls so its not a lead lined fall out
> > > shelter or anything! The signal falls away even if I move into the
room
> > > next door! I am using a D-Link AirPlus (DWL-G650) PCMICA card in the
> > > lappy if it helps.
> > >
> > > Any suggestions?
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 10:15:38 +0100, Ben Dyer <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Oh how I love networks... right, can anybody help, I seem to have a
>funny networking problem.

I will try and assist.

>I think the problem is down to the DHCP side of my router but I am not
>too sure. I have a D-Link ADSL modem (DSL-300G+) connected to my Netgear
>wirelessly router (WGR614), this is then ethernet connected to my PC and
>wirelessly connected to my laptop.

Fairly standard, although I prefer single manufacturer networks if
possible.

>Since both the modem and the router are DHCP devices and having talked
>to Netgear who advised me how to set it up I have the Modem set up with
>an IP address of 192.168.0.1 and the router as 172.10.0.1 with an IP
>address range to 172.10.0.50. Now this is working a treat with my
>ethernet connected pc, it grabs an IP address from the router
>dynamically and everything is fine, however I am having some
>considerable problems with the wireless laptop.

I think I see the problem. You have two different DHCP servers? for a
home LAN, you really should have only one. If you must have two, then
you should segment out the IP ranges. I have a DSL modem which is also
a DHCP server and asl a Netgear WAB102 for my wireless network. The
Netgear unit also is a DHCP server and the first thing I did was shut
it down to avoid conflicts.

>When I start the laptop up, it finds the network no problem at all,
>however if the TCP/IP settings are set to dynamically assign an IP
>address nothing happens, for ages, then from nowhere it pops up telling
>me its connected to my wireless connection with an IP address of
>169.354.116.195 (or something like that). Which is odd as I would expect
>it to assign a 172.10.0.? IP address... If I manually assign it an
>address 172.10.0.5 for instance it works a treat.

The wireless cards are getting confused because of the different IP
ranges. I would suggest just using the 192.168.1.x range and only use
the D-Link or the Netgear as your DHCP server. If you MUST have both,
then split the range between them. (192.168.1.3 - 192.168.1.100, and
the remainder on the second device. Assign the DSL modem as
192.168.1.1 and the access point as 192.168.1.2.

Also make sure you are using the same subnets. (Normally
255.255.255.0)

What it looks like you are trying is a rather advanced form of
networking, (Two subnets talking to each other), and is not really
needed.

>Could it be the wireless range, as it does occasionally seem to work
>when the signal strength is 'Excellent'?

The lag factor could also cause problems when the system is trying for
an address.

>Also the range of the wireless network is pretty crap, I have the router
>sat on my desk upstairs and I can't get a signal downstairs. I live in a
>pretty new house with studwork walls so its not a lead lined fall out
>shelter or anything! The signal falls away even if I move into the room
>next door! I am using a D-Link AirPlus (DWL-G650) PCMICA card in the
>lappy if it helps.

This part I can't speak to. I have a netgear WAP and a house with
heavy plaster walls. I have had no problems with it, even out in the
yard sitting in the sun.

Hope all this helps you out.

--
Ned