DG834GT lockups.

As many will know I have long been a strong advocate of the 2Wire 2700HGV,
AKA BT Business hub, for long or noisy lines like mine. They have served me,
and a number of friends and acquaintances, very well. The problem has always
been that the BT line management system is very swift to drop the line speed
or raise the target SNR but takes several days to raise it again. Added to
this it can become stuck, as mine it at present and never falls again. BT
and Plusnet are always reluctant to reset the line and even if they do a
single disconnection can result in the target SNR being raised to 15dB. To
be quite candid the BT line management system used on ADSL lines has ceased
to be fit for purpose. Because of the switch to ADSL2+ BT regards this as an
effectively obsolete system they are not interested in fixing it. The end
result is my sync speed has effectively been halved with the consequent
reduction in performance.



There is no likely hood of ADSL2+ or FTTC in the foreseeable future on my
exchange. This led me to investigate modem/routers that could manipulate the
DSLAM settings so I have been using a Netgear DG834GT using the DG Team
firmware. After a couple of weeks using this I have conclusively proved that
my line will reliably support a sync speed of 3600 to 3800 with a SNR of 6dB
that gives me a stable speed of 3000. The only drawback is that the DG834GT
locks up and has to be rebooted at least once a day. Having tried several
DG834GTs this seems to be endemic so I am wondering if this is a failing in
the hardware or the DG team firmware. I run the DG834GT off a UPS so I don't
thing mains fluctuation is a likely cause.



Constructive suggestions would be most welcome.


Peter Crosland

"Peter Crosland" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) o.uk...
> As many will know I have long been a strong advocate of the 2Wire 2700HGV,
> AKA BT Business hub, for long or noisy lines like mine. They have served
> me, and a number of friends and acquaintances, very well. The problem has
> always been that the BT line management system is very swift to drop the
> line speed or raise the target SNR but takes several days to raise it
> again. Added to this it can become stuck, as mine it at present and never
> falls again. BT and Plusnet are always reluctant to reset the line and
> even if they do a single disconnection can result in the target SNR being
> raised to 15dB. To be quite candid the BT line management system used on
> ADSL lines has ceased to be fit for purpose. Because of the switch to
> ADSL2+ BT regards this as an effectively obsolete system they are not
> interested in fixing it. The end result is my sync speed has effectively
> been halved with the consequent reduction in performance.
>
>
>
> There is no likely hood of ADSL2+ or FTTC in the foreseeable future on my
> exchange. This led me to investigate modem/routers that could manipulate
> the DSLAM settings so I have been using a Netgear DG834GT using the DG
> Team firmware. After a couple of weeks using this I have conclusively
> proved that my line will reliably support a sync speed of 3600 to 3800
> with a SNR of 6dB that gives me a stable speed of 3000. The only drawback
> is that the DG834GT locks up and has to be rebooted at least once a day.
> Having tried several DG834GTs this seems to be endemic so I am wondering
> if this is a failing in the hardware or the DG team firmware. I run the
> DG834GT off a UPS so I don't thing mains fluctuation is a likely cause.
>
>
>
> Constructive suggestions would be most welcome.

Hi Peter

Slightly OT as this refers to DrayTek Modem/Routers, which if I recall
correctly, you're not enthralled with!

I used to use a Vigor2800VG when I was on MaxDSL. When I was first switched
over I noticed that the SNR Margin sometimes used to drop to 'dangerously
low' levels during the evenings (I can't remember the exact level, maybe
5dB).

At some point DrayTek introduced a setting which they called 'coding gain'
(can't remember if it's one word or two) which was only accessible by
delving into the CLI. This enabled some 'manipulation' of the SNR Margin.

Setting it to its maximum setting (Max was 7 I think, 0 was 'auto' if I
remember correctly) gave me an increase of 2.5dB - 3dB in my SNR Margin
which then ensured that my sync rate of 8128000 was safer, with less risk of
dropping the connection.

Might be worth a try if you've still got a DrayTek lying around.

Rob

On 18/07/2011 18:22, Peter Crosland wrote:
> As many will know I have long been a strong advocate of the 2Wire 2700HGV,
> AKA BT Business hub, for long or noisy lines like mine. They have served me,
> and a number of friends and acquaintances, very well. The problem has always
> been that the BT line management system is very swift to drop the line speed
> or raise the target SNR but takes several days to raise it again. Added to
> this it can become stuck, as mine it at present and never falls again. BT
> and Plusnet are always reluctant to reset the line and even if they do a
> single disconnection can result in the target SNR being raised to 15dB. To
> be quite candid the BT line management system used on ADSL lines has ceased
> to be fit for purpose. Because of the switch to ADSL2+ BT regards this as an
> effectively obsolete system they are not interested in fixing it. The end
> result is my sync speed has effectively been halved with the consequent
> reduction in performance.
>
>
>
> There is no likely hood of ADSL2+ or FTTC in the foreseeable future on my
> exchange. This led me to investigate modem/routers that could manipulate the
> DSLAM settings so I have been using a Netgear DG834GT using the DG Team
> firmware. After a couple of weeks using this I have conclusively proved that
> my line will reliably support a sync speed of 3600 to 3800 with a SNR of 6dB
> that gives me a stable speed of 3000. The only drawback is that the DG834GT
> locks up and has to be rebooted at least once a day. Having tried several
> DG834GTs this seems to be endemic so I am wondering if this is a failing in
> the hardware or the DG team firmware. I run the DG834GT off a UPS so I don't
> thing mains fluctuation is a likely cause.
>
>
>
> Constructive suggestions would be most welcome.
>
>
> Peter Crosland
>
>

I tried various ADSL router/modem combinations, but had the most
stability & success with a Netgear DG834GT on a very long line from the
exchange (ADSL 1).
The max download speed I ever achieved was around 1Mbps due to the
distance involved though.

For the first few years I could only achieve a fixed rate of 0.5 Mbps.

The only firmware that I could get it to work reliably with was
Netgear's own - version 1.02.04. Some firmware "updates" just didn't
work at all.

I tried them all, including DG Team's versions.

I did have to permanently use DMT.EXE software to force a SNR of below
15db though.
Occasionally I got the SNR down to 6db, but usually it would hover
around 9db.

I experienced a complete lock up only once every few months, when I had
to disconnect & reconnect the power to the DG834GT, also resetting the
SNR via DMT.EXE again.

Kitz.co.uk has all the info needed regarding settings & tweaking for the
DG834GT.
All in all, I found this to be a pretty decent router/modem.
Also the wireless wasn't too bad either, for SWMBO's laptop, considering
the 2 ft thick stone walls in my house.

Hope that helps.

Just to rub it in, I had FTTC installed a few weeks ago.
My download speeds, subject to traffic management etc. are now up to 30
times greater than ADSL.
I can't achieve any higher speeds due to the long distance to the
nearest cabinet.

Regards,

Paul.

"Rob" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:l_udnbQMg-mfHLnTnZ2dnUVZ8q-(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Peter Crosland" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed) o.uk...
>> As many will know I have long been a strong advocate of the 2Wire
>> 2700HGV, AKA BT Business hub, for long or noisy lines like mine. They
>> have served me, and a number of friends and acquaintances, very well. The
>> problem has always been that the BT line management system is very swift
>> to drop the line speed or raise the target SNR but takes several days to
>> raise it again. Added to this it can become stuck, as mine it at present
>> and never falls again. BT and Plusnet are always reluctant to reset the
>> line and even if they do a single disconnection can result in the target
>> SNR being raised to 15dB. To be quite candid the BT line management
>> system used on ADSL lines has ceased to be fit for purpose. Because of
>> the switch to ADSL2+ BT regards this as an effectively obsolete system
>> they are not interested in fixing it. The end result is my sync speed has
>> effectively been halved with the consequent reduction in performance.
>>
>>
>>
>> There is no likely hood of ADSL2+ or FTTC in the foreseeable future on my
>> exchange. This led me to investigate modem/routers that could manipulate
>> the DSLAM settings so I have been using a Netgear DG834GT using the DG
>> Team firmware. After a couple of weeks using this I have conclusively
>> proved that my line will reliably support a sync speed of 3600 to 3800
>> with a SNR of 6dB that gives me a stable speed of 3000. The only drawback
>> is that the DG834GT locks up and has to be rebooted at least once a day.
>> Having tried several DG834GTs this seems to be endemic so I am wondering
>> if this is a failing in the hardware or the DG team firmware. I run the
>> DG834GT off a UPS so I don't thing mains fluctuation is a likely cause.
>>
>>
>>
>> Constructive suggestions would be most welcome.
>
> Hi Peter
>
> Slightly OT as this refers to DrayTek Modem/Routers, which if I recall
> correctly, you're not enthralled with!
>
> I used to use a Vigor2800VG when I was on MaxDSL. When I was first
> switched over I noticed that the SNR Margin sometimes used to drop to
> 'dangerously low' levels during the evenings (I can't remember the exact
> level, maybe 5dB).
>
> At some point DrayTek introduced a setting which they called 'coding gain'
> (can't remember if it's one word or two) which was only accessible by
> delving into the CLI. This enabled some 'manipulation' of the SNR Margin.
>
> Setting it to its maximum setting (Max was 7 I think, 0 was 'auto' if I
> remember correctly) gave me an increase of 2.5dB - 3dB in my SNR Margin
> which then ensured that my sync rate of 8128000 was safer, with less risk
> of dropping the connection.
>
> Might be worth a try if you've still got a DrayTek lying around.


Thanks for that. This has been a Draytek free zone for some three years now!
At least I have a reliable connection with a stable speed of 3000 ableit
with some inconvenience. I have obtained a DG834GT V4 that I shall try once
it arrives.

Peter Crosland

"Paul Druggitt" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:V82dnSg6Y-(E-Mail Removed)...
> On 18/07/2011 18:22, Peter Crosland wrote:
>> As many will know I have long been a strong advocate of the 2Wire
>> 2700HGV,
>> AKA BT Business hub, for long or noisy lines like mine. They have served
>> me,
>> and a number of friends and acquaintances, very well. The problem has
>> always
>> been that the BT line management system is very swift to drop the line
>> speed
>> or raise the target SNR but takes several days to raise it again. Added
>> to
>> this it can become stuck, as mine it at present and never falls again. BT
>> and Plusnet are always reluctant to reset the line and even if they do a
>> single disconnection can result in the target SNR being raised to 15dB.
>> To
>> be quite candid the BT line management system used on ADSL lines has
>> ceased
>> to be fit for purpose. Because of the switch to ADSL2+ BT regards this as
>> an
>> effectively obsolete system they are not interested in fixing it. The end
>> result is my sync speed has effectively been halved with the consequent
>> reduction in performance.
>>
>>
>>
>> There is no likely hood of ADSL2+ or FTTC in the foreseeable future on my
>> exchange. This led me to investigate modem/routers that could manipulate
>> the
>> DSLAM settings so I have been using a Netgear DG834GT using the DG Team
>> firmware. After a couple of weeks using this I have conclusively proved
>> that
>> my line will reliably support a sync speed of 3600 to 3800 with a SNR of
>> 6dB
>> that gives me a stable speed of 3000. The only drawback is that the
>> DG834GT
>> locks up and has to be rebooted at least once a day. Having tried several
>> DG834GTs this seems to be endemic so I am wondering if this is a failing
>> in
>> the hardware or the DG team firmware. I run the DG834GT off a UPS so I
>> don't
>> thing mains fluctuation is a likely cause.
>>
>>
>>
>> Constructive suggestions would be most welcome.
>>
>>
>> Peter Crosland
>>
>>
>
> I tried various ADSL router/modem combinations, but had the most stability
> & success with a Netgear DG834GT on a very long line from the exchange
> (ADSL 1).
> The max download speed I ever achieved was around 1Mbps due to the
> distance involved though.
>
> For the first few years I could only achieve a fixed rate of 0.5 Mbps.
>
> The only firmware that I could get it to work reliably with was Netgear's
> own - version 1.02.04. Some firmware "updates" just didn't work at all.
>
> I tried them all, including DG Team's versions.
>
> I did have to permanently use DMT.EXE software to force a SNR of below
> 15db though.
> Occasionally I got the SNR down to 6db, but usually it would hover around
> 9db.
>
> I experienced a complete lock up only once every few months, when I had to
> disconnect & reconnect the power to the DG834GT, also resetting the SNR
> via DMT.EXE again.
>
> Kitz.co.uk has all the info needed regarding settings & tweaking for the
> DG834GT.
> All in all, I found this to be a pretty decent router/modem.
> Also the wireless wasn't too bad either, for SWMBO's laptop, considering
> the 2 ft thick stone walls in my house.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> I can't achieve any higher speeds due to the long distance to the nearest
> cabinet.


Thanks for that. I was aware of the Kitz info but appreciate it being
mentioned.
I have a DG834GT V4 on the way so hopefully that will be more reliable than
the Sky branded ones I have tried so far. Wireless speed is not an issue as
I have an N spec wireless router behind it. If FTTC come to my locality then
I should really benefit because the cabinet is only 500m distant. During the
last three months thieves have stolen the underground cable serving my
village and it has cost BT over £100K to fix it. I have today written to the
BT Chairman, who is an accountant by profession, suggesting he investigates
the economics of installing FTTC in areas that have been the subject of
repeated cable thefts. I doubt he will even get to read it!

Peter Crosland

> Just to rub it in, I had FTTC installed a few weeks ago.
> My download speeds, subject to traffic management etc. are now up to 30
> times greater than ADSL.

Peter Crosland <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> There is no likely hood of ADSL2+ or FTTC in the foreseeable future on my
> exchange. This led me to investigate modem/routers that could manipulate the
> DSLAM settings so I have been using a Netgear DG834GT using the DG Team
> firmware. After a couple of weeks using this I have conclusively proved that
> my line will reliably support a sync speed of 3600 to 3800 with a SNR of 6dB
> that gives me a stable speed of 3000. The only drawback is that the DG834GT
> locks up and has to be rebooted at least once a day. Having tried several
> DG834GTs this seems to be endemic so I am wondering if this is a failing in
> the hardware or the DG team firmware. I run the DG834GT off a UPS so I don't
> thing mains fluctuation is a likely cause.
>
> Constructive suggestions would be most welcome.

I have a DG834GT that I used for years with the stock firmware. Sometime
a couple of years ago it started locking up every so often, once a day
or so, sometimes more, and I retired it and bought a new DGN2000.

I'd noticed that the DG834 always ran quite hot which got me thinking,
and so I pulled it apart and replaced all the electrolytic capacitors
with good quality ones I got from Farnell. I've used it since for a couple
of years as a second Wifi acess point for the far end of the house, but
for the past few months as the ADSL modem as well with the DG Team
firmware. As far as I recall it's never crashed once.

Might not help you much but if you are comfortable doing it or know someone
who could, might be worth pursuing.

Nobby

"Nobby Anderson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) o.uk...
> Peter Crosland <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> There is no likely hood of ADSL2+ or FTTC in the foreseeable future on my
>> exchange. This led me to investigate modem/routers that could manipulate
>> the
>> DSLAM settings so I have been using a Netgear DG834GT using the DG Team
>> firmware. After a couple of weeks using this I have conclusively proved
>> that
>> my line will reliably support a sync speed of 3600 to 3800 with a SNR of
>> 6dB
>> that gives me a stable speed of 3000. The only drawback is that the
>> DG834GT
>> locks up and has to be rebooted at least once a day. Having tried several
>> DG834GTs this seems to be endemic so I am wondering if this is a failing
>> in
>> the hardware or the DG team firmware. I run the DG834GT off a UPS so I
>> don't
>> thing mains fluctuation is a likely cause.
>>
>> Constructive suggestions would be most welcome.
>
> I have a DG834GT that I used for years with the stock firmware. Sometime
> a couple of years ago it started locking up every so often, once a day
> or so, sometimes more, and I retired it and bought a new DGN2000.
>
> I'd noticed that the DG834 always ran quite hot which got me thinking,
> and so I pulled it apart and replaced all the electrolytic capacitors
> with good quality ones I got from Farnell. I've used it since for a
> couple
> of years as a second Wifi acess point for the far end of the house, but
> for the past few months as the ADSL modem as well with the DG Team
> firmware. As far as I recall it's never crashed once.
>
> Might not help you much but if you are comfortable doing it or know
> someone
> who could, might be worth pursuing.


Thanks for that. I must say they all seem to run very hot. The one I am
awaiting is almost new so maybe it will be better. As for replacing the
capacitors I don't have the tools or the manual dexterity to do that though
I know a man who does. I may look at applying some additional cooling
instead. The later Netgear power supplies also run very hot and I assume
they are switch mode that is one of my pet hates in electronics. Switch mode
PSUs often seem to be designed as an expensive, and ineffectual, fuse that
self destructs and kills the equipment it is connected to. Mutter mutter
mutter...............

Peter Crosland

Peter Crosland wrote:

> Switch mode PSUs often seem to be designed as an expensive, and
> ineffectual, fuse that self destructs and kills the equipment it is
> connected to.

They certainly die with a probability that seems proportional to their
age, but IME they rarely kill what they're powering ...

On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 18:22:22 +0100, "Peter Crosland"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>There is no likely hood of ADSL2+ or FTTC in the foreseeable future on my
>exchange. This led me to investigate modem/routers that could manipulate the
>DSLAM settings so I have been using a Netgear DG834GT using the DG Team
>firmware. After a couple of weeks using this I have conclusively proved that
>my line will reliably support a sync speed of 3600 to 3800 with a SNR of 6dB
>that gives me a stable speed of 3000. The only drawback is that the DG834GT
>locks up and has to be rebooted at least once a day. Having tried several
>DG834GTs this seems to be endemic so I am wondering if this is a failing in
>the hardware or the DG team firmware. I run the DG834GT off a UPS so I don't
>thing mains fluctuation is a likely cause.

Didn't you ask this same question a few weeks ago?

FWIW: I have a DG834GT with the DGteam firmware and it's worked for a
couple of years only locking up once. It holds the connection for
weeks at a time.

Peronsally I've not found the Netgear any better than the 2wire but
YMMV.

My target margin has finally returned to 6dB so the actual router is
no longer that important any more.

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

"Nobby Anderson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) o.uk...
> Peter Crosland <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> There is no likely hood of ADSL2+ or FTTC in the foreseeable future on my
>> exchange. This led me to investigate modem/routers that could manipulate
>> the
>> DSLAM settings so I have been using a Netgear DG834GT using the DG Team
>> firmware. After a couple of weeks using this I have conclusively proved
>> that
>> my line will reliably support a sync speed of 3600 to 3800 with a SNR of
>> 6dB
>> that gives me a stable speed of 3000. The only drawback is that the
>> DG834GT
>> locks up and has to be rebooted at least once a day. Having tried several
>> DG834GTs this seems to be endemic so I am wondering if this is a failing
>> in
>> the hardware or the DG team firmware. I run the DG834GT off a UPS so I
>> don't
>> thing mains fluctuation is a likely cause.
>>
>> Constructive suggestions would be most welcome.
>
> I have a DG834GT that I used for years with the stock firmware. Sometime
> a couple of years ago it started locking up every so often, once a day
> or so, sometimes more, and I retired it and bought a new DGN2000.
>
> I'd noticed that the DG834 always ran quite hot which got me thinking,
> and so I pulled it apart and replaced all the electrolytic capacitors
> with good quality ones I got from Farnell. I've used it since for a
> couple
> of years as a second Wifi acess point for the far end of the house, but
> for the past few months as the ADSL modem as well with the DG Team
> firmware. As far as I recall it's never crashed once.
>
> Might not help you much but if you are comfortable doing it or know
> someone
> who could, might be worth pursuing.

Purely out of interest... do you remember if those capacitors had a 90° X on
the top? If so, this was part of a batch that caused many crashes across
the world. Dell was one of the victims, along with may other big names. I
had a PC and a CD player blow up all because of the phantom X capacitors.
Well worth replacing them if you can do the job, or get it done by someone
else.

..