DG834G - noise and crackles on voice line

I have been noticing a lot of white noise and crackles while using the phone
and have traced the cause, apparently, to my DG834G router. I say it's the
router because the noises vanish when I disconnect the router's phone cord
from the phone line. In fact the noise only seems to exist when the router
is synched, because the noise does not immediately appear when I reconnect
it but a few seconds later once synch is established.

I have a filter at the master socket and another at the end of the extension
that goes to my router. I have swapped both filters with a couple of spares
I have and that makes no difference. I have also moved the router to the
master socket in order to remove the extension cable as a factor but that
made no difference.

I thought that filters were supposed to stop "audible" signals from making
it through to the ADSL equipment (router) and vice versa. This seems not to
be the case, unless all four of my filters have mysteriously failed at the
same time. Also, the noises certainly aren't right, whatever the reason. I'm
on a 2Mb service and usually see an SNR of ~12db but this is now dropping as
low as 5db when the noise gets really bad.

My question is...... with these symptoms is it definitely my router causing
the problem or could there be some quirk on the ADSL part of my line that is
screwing things up. I don't want to buy a new router on the off-chance that
is the problem and I don't want to pay £60+ to BT for an engineer callout if
it is my router.

"Tiny Tim" <.> wrote in message
news:44c5d166$0$22129$(E-Mail Removed)...
>I have been noticing a lot of white noise and crackles while using the
>phone and have traced the cause, apparently, to my DG834G router. I say
>it's the router because the noises vanish when I disconnect the router's
>phone cord from the phone line. In fact the noise only seems to exist when
>the router is synched, because the noise does not immediately appear when I
>reconnect it but a few seconds later once synch is established.
>
> I have a filter at the master socket and another at the end of the
> extension that goes to my router. I have swapped both filters with a
> couple of spares I have and that makes no difference. I have also moved
> the router to the master socket in order to remove the extension cable as
> a factor but that made no difference.
>
> I thought that filters were supposed to stop "audible" signals from making
> it through to the ADSL equipment (router) and vice versa. This seems not
> to be the case, unless all four of my filters have mysteriously failed at
> the same time. Also, the noises certainly aren't right, whatever the
> reason. I'm on a 2Mb service and usually see an SNR of ~12db but this is
> now dropping as low as 5db when the noise gets really bad.
>
> My question is...... with these symptoms is it definitely my router
> causing the problem or could there be some quirk on the ADSL part of my
> line that is screwing things up. I don't want to buy a new router on the
> off-chance that is the problem and I don't want to pay £60+ to BT for an
> engineer callout if it is my router.


If you've connected your router and phone directly to the master socket via
a filter then the problem is in the external bt line. Corrosion in one of
the many terminations between you and the exchange can unbalance the line
with the effect that even with a filter in place the broadband signal (mushy
noise) can be heard.

Fred

"The Simpsons" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:44c5deb6$0$941$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Tiny Tim" <.> wrote in message
> news:44c5d166$0$22129$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>I have been noticing a lot of white noise and crackles while using the
>>phone and have traced the cause, apparently, to my DG834G router. I say
>>it's the router because the noises vanish when I disconnect the router's
>>phone cord from the phone line. In fact the noise only seems to exist when
>>the router is synched, because the noise does not immediately appear when
>>I reconnect it but a few seconds later once synch is established.
>>
>> I have a filter at the master socket and another at the end of the
>> extension that goes to my router. I have swapped both filters with a
>> couple of spares I have and that makes no difference. I have also moved
>> the router to the master socket in order to remove the extension cable as
>> a factor but that made no difference.
>>
>> I thought that filters were supposed to stop "audible" signals from
>> making it through to the ADSL equipment (router) and vice versa. This
>> seems not to be the case, unless all four of my filters have mysteriously
>> failed at the same time. Also, the noises certainly aren't right,
>> whatever the reason. I'm on a 2Mb service and usually see an SNR of ~12db
>> but this is now dropping as low as 5db when the noise gets really bad.
>>
>> My question is...... with these symptoms is it definitely my router
>> causing the problem or could there be some quirk on the ADSL part of my
>> line that is screwing things up. I don't want to buy a new router on the
>> off-chance that is the problem and I don't want to pay £60+ to BT for an
>> engineer callout if it is my router.
>
>
> If you've connected your router and phone directly to the master socket
> via a filter then the problem is in the external bt line. Corrosion in one
> of the many terminations between you and the exchange can unbalance the
> line with the effect that even with a filter in place the broadband signal
> (mushy noise) can be heard.
>
> Fred
Thanks for the reply. So just to check this, you don't think it could be
that the router is generating noise, possibly due to failing components in
the heat we've been having, and pumping it back out over the phone line
somehow?

"Tiny Tim" <.> wrote in message
news:44c5f1b2$0$22088$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "The Simpsons" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:44c5deb6$0$941$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>> If you've connected your router and phone directly to the master socket
>> via a filter then the problem is in the external bt line. Corrosion in
>> one of the many terminations between you and the exchange can unbalance
>> the line with the effect that even with a filter in place the broadband
>> signal (mushy noise) can be heard.
>>
>> Fred
> Thanks for the reply. So just to check this, you don't think it could be
> that the router is generating noise, possibly due to failing components in
> the heat we've been having, and pumping it back out over the phone line
> somehow?
I just thought I'd add that I phoned BT fault reporting and the rep there
could hear the noise on the line and that it vanished when I unplugged my
router and she told me to report the problem to my ISP to forward to BT
Wholesale, which I've now done. Thanks for your input :-)

"Tiny Tim" <.> wrote in message
news:44c5fc08$0$22113$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Tiny Tim" <.> wrote in message
> news:44c5f1b2$0$22088$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>> "The Simpsons" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:44c5deb6$0$941$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>
>>> If you've connected your router and phone directly to the master socket
>>> via a filter then the problem is in the external bt line. Corrosion in
>>> one of the many terminations between you and the exchange can unbalance
>>> the line with the effect that even with a filter in place the broadband
>>> signal (mushy noise) can be heard.
>>>
>>> Fred
>> Thanks for the reply. So just to check this, you don't think it could be
>> that the router is generating noise, possibly due to failing components
>> in the heat we've been having, and pumping it back out over the phone
>> line somehow?
> I just thought I'd add that I phoned BT fault reporting and the rep there
> could hear the noise on the line and that it vanished when I unplugged my
> router and she told me to report the problem to my ISP to forward to BT
> Wholesale, which I've now done. Thanks for your input :-)

Yes, thats the correct procedure...just be ready for some hassle from your
ISP before they pass it on to BT...they will be checking to satisfy
themselves that it is indeed an external fault as they could be charged by
BT for a wasted visit.

F

"The Simpsons" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:44c5deb6$0$941$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Tiny Tim" <.> wrote in message
> news:44c5d166$0$22129$(E-Mail Removed)...

>> I have a filter at the master socket and another at the end of the
>> extension that goes to my router. I have swapped both filters with a
>> couple of spares I have and that makes no difference. I have also moved
>> the router to the master socket in order to remove the extension cable as
>> a factor but that made no difference.


so if you have a filter at the master, and at the extension is that not
messing things up? how is the extension plugged into the master?

"Stu C" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:44c655d4$0$3541$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "The Simpsons" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:44c5deb6$0$941$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>> "Tiny Tim" <.> wrote in message
>> news:44c5d166$0$22129$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>>> I have a filter at the master socket and another at the end of the
>>> extension that goes to my router. I have swapped both filters with a
>>> couple of spares I have and that makes no difference. I have also moved
>>> the router to the master socket in order to remove the extension cable
>>> as a factor but that made no difference.
>
>
> so if you have a filter at the master, and at the extension is that not
> messing things up? how is the extension plugged into the master?

I've had this config for as long as I've had broadband, which is probably 6
years or so, and never had problems until now. But for completeness.....

The extension cable plugs directly into the master socket in the hall and
has a passthrough socket built into it into which I plug one of the filters.
The two phones plug into a splitter which itself is plugged into the filter
at that end of the extension, i.e. in the hall. So the extension is carrying
the full voice and broadband bandwidth, while the phones are filtered for
voice traffic only.

At the far end of the extension, in the living room, I have a second filter
and my router plugs into this filter, so that should keep voice and data
comms clean at that end of things. I could, and have done in the past, but
don't currently, plug my Sky digibox or another phone into that filter in
the living room. When I have done that has not caused any problems either.

In any event, as I stated in my first post, as part of my troubleshooting
efforts I unplugged the extension and took the router out into the hall and
plugged that straight into the filter which itself was plugged straight into
the master socket and the same problem was still present. Also, to repeat, I
have swapped both filters for another spare pair and that has made no
difference.

"Tiny Tim" <.> wrote in message
news:44c66b90$0$22085$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> I've had this config for as long as I've had broadband, which is
probably 6
> years or so, and never had problems until now. But for
completeness.....
>
> The extension cable plugs directly into the master socket in the hall
and
> has a passthrough socket built into it into which I plug one of the
filters.
> The two phones plug into a splitter which itself is plugged into the
filter
> at that end of the extension, i.e. in the hall. So the extension is
carrying
> the full voice and broadband bandwidth, while the phones are filtered
for
> voice traffic only.
>
> At the far end of the extension, in the living room, I have a second
filter
> and my router plugs into this filter, so that should keep voice and
data
> comms clean at that end of things. I could, and have done in the past,
but
> don't currently, plug my Sky digibox or another phone into that filter
in
> the living room. When I have done that has not caused any problems
either.
>
> In any event, as I stated in my first post, as part of my
troubleshooting
> efforts I unplugged the extension and took the router out into the
hall and
> plugged that straight into the filter which itself was plugged
straight into
> the master socket and the same problem was still present. Also, to
repeat, I
> have swapped both filters for another spare pair and that has made no
> difference.

Other posters have explained things well, and looks like you're on the
way to getting the problem sorted. Hope all goes well. For
completeness...

Once things are all sorted; if I've understood correctly, there's no
phone in the living room, so you don't actually need a filter at the
far end of the extension - the router can go straight to line. OK,
normally it's causing no harm, but any extra connection/component is a
potential fault at some time....

- -
Martin

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:05:50 +0100, "Tiny Tim" <.> wrote:

> The extension cable plugs directly into the master socket in the hall and
> has a passthrough socket built into it into which I plug one of the filters.
> The two phones plug into a splitter which itself is plugged into the filter
> at that end of the extension, i.e. in the hall. So the extension is carrying
> the full voice and broadband bandwidth, while the phones are filtered for
> voice traffic only.

Sounds normal so far.

> At the far end of the extension, in the living room, I have a second filter
> and my router plugs into this filter, so that should keep voice and data
> comms clean at that end of things.

Whoa there - you appear to be saying that your router is connected via a
filter, and that is dead wrong. The fact that it even works suggest that
you have bought some really crap filters and having crap filters would
allow noise from the DSL signals into your phones.

Tony

"Anthony R. Gold" <not-for-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:05:50 +0100, "Tiny Tim" <.> wrote:
>
>> The extension cable plugs directly into the master socket in the hall and
>> has a passthrough socket built into it into which I plug one of the
>> filters.
>> The two phones plug into a splitter which itself is plugged into the
>> filter
>> at that end of the extension, i.e. in the hall. So the extension is
>> carrying
>> the full voice and broadband bandwidth, while the phones are filtered for
>> voice traffic only.
>
> Sounds normal so far.
>
>> At the far end of the extension, in the living room, I have a second
>> filter
>> and my router plugs into this filter, so that should keep voice and data
>> comms clean at that end of things.
>
> Whoa there - you appear to be saying that your router is connected via a
> filter, and that is dead wrong. The fact that it even works suggest that
> you have bought some really crap filters and having crap filters would
> allow noise from the DSL signals into your phones.
>
> Tony
>
Huh? Every filter I know has two sockets on it - one for voice and one for
data. If I use a filter and plug the router into the data socket but just
don't plug anything into the voice socket how is that going to cause grief
to my data?