Demon: Intermittent ADSL fault

I am having problems convincing my ISP that my ADSL has a fault.
Every few days, my router repeatedly gets disconnected after about 30
Sec. The next day, it will be perfectly OK.

I have tried all the usual things:
My router is connected at the master socket via a NTE5 faceplate.
I have tried a spare router, which behaves exactly the same when the
fault is present.

Demon say that it is the "User" who is causing the disconnects. That is
probably true as I can see the downstream S/N varying. When it connects
(at near max speed) this is 6dB as you would expect. However, it then
varies to 4dB, 3dB, Fails and reconnects at 6dB again.

What else can I do and how can I convince them that there is a fault?

Thanks, Frank

On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 10:26:18 +0000, FDJ <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>What else can I do and how can I convince them that there is a fault?

attenuation ?
downstream modem sync speed / line rate ?

how long you had the service ?


Phil

On Sunday, in article
<ephtoa$26e$1$(E-Mail Removed)>
(E-Mail Removed) "FDJ" wrote:

> I am having problems convincing my ISP that my ADSL has a fault.
> Every few days, my router repeatedly gets disconnected after about 30
> Sec. The next day, it will be perfectly OK.
>
> I have tried all the usual things:
> My router is connected at the master socket via a NTE5 faceplate.
> I have tried a spare router, which behaves exactly the same when the
> fault is present.
>
> Demon say that it is the "User" who is causing the disconnects. That is
> probably true as I can see the downstream S/N varying. When it connects
> (at near max speed) this is 6dB as you would expect. However, it then
> varies to 4dB, 3dB, Fails and reconnects at 6dB again.
>
> What else can I do and how can I convince them that there is a fault?

There's several ADSL tests possible.

1: Isolate any extension wiring. (And it could be a dodgy phone.)

2: New modem-socket lead.

3: Remove the faceplate and connect to the internal socket with a plug-
in filter.

4: As 3, but use a dial-up modem lead and no filter at all.

This is all about eliminating as much as possible that is on your side,
and might be faulty. And I think it's worth having a plug-in filter and
spare lead to connect the modem.

The lead between your modem and wall socket has always been one of the
vulnerable components. And a faulty lead on a phone could mess things up
too. Finding these faults needs methodical trial-and-error testing, so
remember to label any interchangable components such as plug-in filters
(I know, not something you're using.)

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

On the horizon, a carrier task force of the Salvation Navy was
turning into the wind, preparing to launch Zeppelins.

FDJ <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote on Sun, 28 Jan 2007 at 10:26:18:
>I am having problems convincing my ISP that my ADSL has a fault.
>Every few days, my router repeatedly gets disconnected after about 30
>Sec. The next day, it will be perfectly OK.

It's not clear that you can rule out intermittent local interference.

>I have tried all the usual things:
>My router is connected at the master socket via a NTE5 faceplate.

Have you experimented on a "bad" day with the router connected to the
test socket behind the NTE5 faceplate? This ensures (in most cases) that
all extension wiring and phone devices are disconnected.

>I have tried a spare router, which behaves exactly the same when the
>fault is present.

Did you change over the power supply plug block at the same time? Some
have been known fail in a way that creates interference.

>Demon say that it is the "User" who is causing the disconnects. That is
>probably true as I can see the downstream S/N varying. When it connects
>(at near max speed) this is 6dB as you would expect. However, it then
>varies to 4dB, 3dB, Fails and reconnects at 6dB again.
>
>What else can I do and how can I convince them that there is a fault?

Is there the slightest problem with phone calls - noise or crackles? If
so, get that solved via BT first.
--
Tony

Phil Thompson wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 10:26:18 +0000, FDJ <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> What else can I do and how can I convince them that there is a fault?
>
> attenuation ?
> downstream modem sync speed / line rate ?
>
> how long you had the service ?
>
>
> Phil
SL Status: UP
DSL Modulation Mode: GDMT
DSL Path Mode: INTERLEAVED
Downstream Rate: 5920 Kbps
Upstream Rate: 448 Kbps
Downstream Margin: 11 db
Upstream Margin: 21 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 40
Upstream Line Attenuation: 24

I.ve had the service for about three years now. Started off at 512k,
then 2M, then 8M

From the above, the S/N has obviously got a lot better since the modems
synced.

Frank

Tony wrote:
> FDJ <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote on Sun, 28 Jan 2007 at 10:26:18:
>> I am having problems convincing my ISP that my ADSL has a fault.
>> Every few days, my router repeatedly gets disconnected after about 30
>> Sec. The next day, it will be perfectly OK.
>
> It's not clear that you can rule out intermittent local interference.

Interference from what though?
Cordless phone: Tried switching it off.
No other phones or modems connected.

>
>> I have tried all the usual things:
>> My router is connected at the master socket via a NTE5 faceplate.
>
> Have you experimented on a "bad" day with the router connected to the
> test socket behind the NTE5 faceplate? This ensures (in most cases) that
> all extension wiring and phone devices are disconnected.

No, next time, I'll do this but I am not hopeful.

>
>> I have tried a spare router, which behaves exactly the same when the
>> fault is present.
>
> Did you change over the power supply plug block at the same time? Some
> have been known fail in a way that creates interference.

Yes, Different types of routers with their own PSU.

>
>> Demon say that it is the "User" who is causing the disconnects. That is
>> probably true as I can see the downstream S/N varying. When it connects
>> (at near max speed) this is 6dB as you would expect. However, it then
>> varies to 4dB, 3dB, Fails and reconnects at 6dB again.
>>
>> What else can I do and how can I convince them that there is a fault?
>
> Is there the slightest problem with phone calls - noise or crackles? If
> so, get that solved via BT first.

No the line is audibly, noise free when the fault is present.

Frank

FDJ wrote:
> Tony wrote:
>> FDJ <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote on Sun, 28 Jan 2007 at 10:26:18:
>>> I am having problems convincing my ISP that my ADSL has a fault.
>>> Every few days, my router repeatedly gets disconnected after about
>>> 30 Sec. The next day, it will be perfectly OK.
>>
>> It's not clear that you can rule out intermittent local interference.
>
> Interference from what though?
> Cordless phone: Tried switching it off.
> No other phones or modems connected.

Anything electrical can cause electronic noise, ranging from the simple plug
wart type power supplies up to large industrial electronic switching, hell
there have been cases where power save light bulbs have caused problems
(Christmas tree/rope lights, plasma televisions etc etc even the humble iron
could cause interference) & the most wonderful thing about it all is that it
doesn't have to be in your house, it can be anybody on the same PCP causing
your problem, so they could be literally a mile or so away. At the moment
I'm investigating a case where there is one person injecting the signal into
the network & 1 out of 6 DSL users on the same dp won't work, go figure.

The biggest problem with this type of problem isn't finding the source, it's
the fact that BT/Openreach do not, at the present moment, have any recourse
in law to stop the source from being operated & the legal eagles are
sh******g themselves about it..

To the OP the easiest/quickest way to prove it's not being sourced in your
house is to turn the electrical system off (at the consumer unit) & try to
connect using a laptop & USB modem (I would suggest a battery powered router
but how many of us out here are in the position to do that?).

On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 12:47:39 +0000, FDJ <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I.ve had the service for about three years now. Started off at 512k,
>then 2M, then 8M

how long have you had 8M ?

>From the above, the S/N has obviously got a lot better since the modems
>synced.

either that or its had its target shifted upwards to 9 dB

Phil

FDJ <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote on Sun, 28 Jan 2007 at 12:51:46:
>> Have you experimented on a "bad" day with the router connected to the
>> test socket behind the NTE5 faceplate? This ensures (in most cases) that
>> all extension wiring and phone devices are disconnected.
>
>No, next time, I'll do this but I am not hopeful.

OK, let us know what happens. The reason that experiment may be useful
is that even extension wiring with properly fitted ADSL filters may
cause impedance problems or contribute a significant proportion of the
noise being added to the line, especially if that noise interference is
being generated locally (your own premises or that of neighbours). With
all extension wiring disconnected by using that test socket, you are
giving the ADSL signal the best chance of working with your current
router and BT line.
--
Tony

FDJ wrote:

> I am having problems convincing my ISP that my ADSL has a fault.
> Every few days, my router repeatedly gets disconnected after about 30
> Sec. The next day, it will be perfectly OK.
>
> I have tried all the usual things:
> My router is connected at the master socket via a NTE5 faceplate.
> I have tried a spare router, which behaves exactly the same when the
> fault is present.
>
> Demon say that it is the "User" who is causing the disconnects. That is
> probably true as I can see the downstream S/N varying. When it connects
> (at near max speed) this is 6dB as you would expect. However, it then
> varies to 4dB, 3dB, Fails and reconnects at 6dB again.
>
> What else can I do and how can I convince them that there is a fault?

Does your router have a logfile ? It'll list the disconnections together with
what it thinks is the problem.

Graham