Degraded Picture with a Virgin Media VBox and a 30m Coaxial Cable

Hey guys.

I want to move my Virgin Media VBox (the one that provides cable TV)
downstairs. CUrrently the cable point is in the top floor of my house
(which has three storeys), so I estimate the cable will need to be
around 30m long to reach the lounge, which is fairly near the
staircase.

However, will I find that the picture has been heavily degraded by
using a 30m coaxial cable? Would I be able to buy one in a shop, try
it out, and then take it back if it doesn't work?

Kind Regards,

Matt

In article <b8b1e308-8cd4-4181-8c2e-(E-Mail Removed)
..com>, Matt <(E-Mail Removed)> scribeth thus
>Hey guys.
>
>I want to move my Virgin Media VBox (the one that provides cable TV)
>downstairs. CUrrently the cable point is in the top floor of my house
>(which has three storeys), so I estimate the cable will need to be
>around 30m long to reach the lounge, which is fairly near the
>staircase.
>
>However, will I find that the picture has been heavily degraded by
>using a 30m coaxial cable? Would I be able to buy one in a shop, try
>it out, and then take it back if it doesn't work?
>
>Kind Regards,
>
>Matt

Shouldn't do after all its prolly come several hundred metres from their
roadside distribution cabinet..

But do use a very good grade of cable as one of the major problems cable
networks have is "egress" where signals leak from their system and they
are duty bound to keep this within quite tight limits!...
--
Tony Sayer

In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, tony sayer
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>In article <b8b1e308-8cd4-4181-8c2e-(E-Mail Removed)
>.com>, Matt <(E-Mail Removed)> scribeth thus
>>Hey guys.
>>
>>I want to move my Virgin Media VBox (the one that provides cable TV)
>>downstairs. CUrrently the cable point is in the top floor of my house
>>(which has three storeys), so I estimate the cable will need to be
>>around 30m long to reach the lounge, which is fairly near the
>>staircase.
>>
>>However, will I find that the picture has been heavily degraded by
>>using a 30m coaxial cable? Would I be able to buy one in a shop, try
>>it out, and then take it back if it doesn't work?
>>
>>Kind Regards,
>>
>>Matt
>
>Shouldn't do after all its prolly come several hundred metres from their
>roadside distribution cabinet..
>
You can't say that. Networks are designed to deliver a precise range of
signal levels at the wall plate. Sometimes there is an unavoidable 'bit
to spare', and a 3 or 6dB in-line attenuator is inserted at the STB
input, but don't count on it.

>But do use a very good grade of cable as one of the major problems cable
>networks have is "egress" where signals leak from their system and they
>are duty bound to keep this within quite tight limits!...

And don't forget "ingress". There's a reverse path (typically 15 to
65Mhz). If your connections and screening are not up to scratch, you may
cause problems to VM. DIY botches can be a cause of network problems.
The use of domestic satellite cable is not really considered good
practice. However.....
--
Ian

Or pay Virgin to move the point downstairs, or is this too simple?
Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email: (E-Mail Removed)
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"James R" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:gkgr2s$99b$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Matt" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:b8b1e308-8cd4-4181-8c2e-(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Hey guys.
>>
>> I want to move my Virgin Media VBox (the one that provides cable TV)
>> downstairs. CUrrently the cable point is in the top floor of my house
>> (which has three storeys), so I estimate the cable will need to be
>> around 30m long to reach the lounge, which is fairly near the
>> staircase.
>>
>> However, will I find that the picture has been heavily degraded by
>> using a 30m coaxial cable? Would I be able to buy one in a shop, try
>> it out, and then take it back if it doesn't work?
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>>
>> Matt
>>
> It depends what the signal level is now. Is there any attenuator fitted
> to the
> TV box. Mine used to have a 6dB one. 100ft of coax will have quite a
> loss, as much as half to three quarters of the strength. If there is any
> attenuator undo it once you move the box, or try it with 30m of coax
> coiled up before moving. DO NOT use cheap nasty coax or Argos type
> extension leads. You will need low loss coax which can be around 10mm
> in diameter.
> Why do you think you would be able to take coax back if the signal
> provided was too low or the loss was too great? The cable would not
> be faulty. You would be better with a video sender and remote extender.
> It would cost you less at £60 or so than buying good quality coax.
>
>

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Ian Jackson <ianREMOVET
(E-Mail Removed)> scribeth thus
>In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, tony sayer
><(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>>In article <b8b1e308-8cd4-4181-8c2e-(E-Mail Removed)
>>.com>, Matt <(E-Mail Removed)> scribeth thus
>>>Hey guys.
>>>
>>>I want to move my Virgin Media VBox (the one that provides cable TV)
>>>downstairs. CUrrently the cable point is in the top floor of my house
>>>(which has three storeys), so I estimate the cable will need to be
>>>around 30m long to reach the lounge, which is fairly near the
>>>staircase.
>>>
>>>However, will I find that the picture has been heavily degraded by
>>>using a 30m coaxial cable? Would I be able to buy one in a shop, try
>>>it out, and then take it back if it doesn't work?
>>>
>>>Kind Regards,
>>>
>>>Matt
>>
>>Shouldn't do after all its prolly come several hundred metres from their
>>roadside distribution cabinet..
>>
>You can't say that. Networks are designed to deliver a precise range of
>signal levels at the wall plate. Sometimes there is an unavoidable 'bit
>to spare', and a 3 or 6dB in-line attenuator is inserted at the STB
>input, but don't count on it.

What!, seeing the monkeys they employ for installation;?..



>
>>But do use a very good grade of cable as one of the major problems cable
>>networks have is "egress" where signals leak from their system and they
>>are duty bound to keep this within quite tight limits!...
>
>And don't forget "ingress". There's a reverse path (typically 15 to
>65Mhz). If your connections and screening are not up to scratch, you may
>cause problems to VM. DIY botches can be a cause of network problems.
>The use of domestic satellite cable is not really considered good
>practice. However.....

And Ingress .. but I didn't want to write a book on it all;!..

They have a very good grade of RG6 used hereabouts, but I'd reckon a
good satellite grade cable would suffice or as someone else said ask
them.

They are very keen to hang onto existing punters so they might not be
that expensive...

Once they've gone to the Sky or 3 view they very rarely come back..
--
Tony Sayer

In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, tony sayer
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Ian Jackson <ianREMOVET
>(E-Mail Removed)> scribeth thus
>>In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, tony sayer
>><(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>>>In article <b8b1e308-8cd4-4181-8c2e-(E-Mail Removed)
>>>.com>, Matt <(E-Mail Removed)> scribeth thus
>>>>Hey guys.
>>>>
>>>>I want to move my Virgin Media VBox (the one that provides cable TV)
>>>>downstairs. CUrrently the cable point is in the top floor of my house
>>>>(which has three storeys), so I estimate the cable will need to be
>>>>around 30m long to reach the lounge, which is fairly near the
>>>>staircase.
>>>>
>>>>However, will I find that the picture has been heavily degraded by
>>>>using a 30m coaxial cable? Would I be able to buy one in a shop, try
>>>>it out, and then take it back if it doesn't work?
>>>>
>>>>Kind Regards,
>>>>
>>>>Matt
>>>
>>>Shouldn't do after all its prolly come several hundred metres from their
>>>roadside distribution cabinet..
>>>
>>You can't say that. Networks are designed to deliver a precise range of
>>signal levels at the wall plate. Sometimes there is an unavoidable 'bit
>>to spare', and a 3 or 6dB in-line attenuator is inserted at the STB
>>input, but don't count on it.
>
>What!, seeing the monkeys they employ for installation;?..
>
"You might think that, but I couldn't possibly comment."
>
>
>>
>>>But do use a very good grade of cable as one of the major problems cable
>>>networks have is "egress" where signals leak from their system and they
>>>are duty bound to keep this within quite tight limits!...
>>
>>And don't forget "ingress". There's a reverse path (typically 15 to
>>65Mhz). If your connections and screening are not up to scratch, you may
>>cause problems to VM. DIY botches can be a cause of network problems.
>>The use of domestic satellite cable is not really considered good
>>practice. However.....
>
>And Ingress .. but I didn't want to write a book on it all;!..
>
>They have a very good grade of RG6 used hereabouts, but I'd reckon a
>good satellite grade cable would suffice or as someone else said ask
>them.
>
The 'drop' cables (from cabinet to the home) are quad-shield RG6 (or
occasionally RG11 for very long runs). The attenuation of 30m of RG6 is
about 2dB at 100Mhz and 5.5dB at 750MHz. If the STB has a 6dB attenuator
fitted, there will be enough signal level at the HF end to allow the
addition the extra cable (although it might be a little high at the LF
end). If there is no attenuator, you might have a problem.

>They are very keen to hang onto existing punters so they might not be
>that expensive...
>
Indeed. That might be the best idea. I'm sure that they would prefer to
do it themselves. If it turns out that the additional cable does drop
the signal to an unacceptably low level, they might be able to
compensate by letting you have a bit more to compensate.

>Once they've gone to the Sky or 3 view they very rarely come back..

--
Ian

On Jan 13, 12:36*pm, Ian Jackson
<ianREMOVETHISjack...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <l4o6AdH0tHbJF...@bancom.co.uk>, tony sayer
> <t...@bancom.co.uk> writes
>
>
>
> >In article <uRa4HiJQUGbJF...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk>, Ian Jackson <ianREMOVET
> >HISjack...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> scribeth thus
> >>In message <kK2asmFPCFbJF...@bancom.co.uk>, tony sayer
> >><t...@bancom.co.uk> writes
> >>>In article <b8b1e308-8cd4-4181-8c2e-c8a2a4922...@s1g2000prg.googlegroups
> >>>.com>, Matt <matt...@hotmail.com> scribeth thus
> >>>>Hey guys.
>
> >>>>I want to move my Virgin Media VBox (the one that provides cable TV)
> >>>>downstairs. CUrrently the cable point is in the top floor of my house
> >>>>(which has three storeys), so I estimate the cable will need to be
> >>>>around 30m long to reach the lounge, which is fairly near the
> >>>>staircase.
>
> >>>>However, will I find that the picture has been heavily degraded by
> >>>>using a 30m coaxial cable? Would I be able to buy one in a shop, try
> >>>>it out, and then take it back if it doesn't work?
>
> >>>>Kind Regards,
>
> >>>>Matt
>
> >>>Shouldn't do after all its prolly come several hundred metres from their
> >>>roadside distribution cabinet..
>
> >>You can't say that. Networks are designed to deliver a precise range of
> >>signal levels at the wall plate. Sometimes there is an unavoidable 'bit
> >>to spare', and a 3 or 6dB in-line attenuator is inserted at the STB
> >>input, but don't count on it.
>
> >What!, seeing the monkeys they employ for installation;?..
>
> "You might think that, but I couldn't possibly comment."
>
>
>
> >>>But do use a very good grade of cable as one of the major problems cable
> >>>networks have is "egress" where signals leak from their system and they
> >>>are duty bound to keep this within quite tight limits!...
>
> >>And don't forget "ingress". There's a reverse path (typically 15 to
> >>65Mhz). If your connections and screening are not up to scratch, you may
> >>cause problems to VM. DIY botches can be a cause of network problems.
> >>The use of domestic satellite cable is not really considered good
> >>practice. However.....
>
> >And Ingress .. but I didn't want to write a book on it all;!..
>
> >They have a very good grade of RG6 used hereabouts, but I'd reckon a
> >good satellite grade cable would suffice or as someone else said ask
> >them.
>
> The 'drop' cables (from cabinet to the home) are quad-shield RG6 (or
> occasionally RG11 for very long runs). The attenuation of 30m of RG6 is
> about 2dB at 100Mhz and 5.5dB at 750MHz. If the STB has a 6dB attenuator
> fitted, there will be enough signal level at the HF end to allow the
> addition the extra cable (although it might be a little high at the LF
> end). If there is no attenuator, you might have a problem.
>
> >They are very keen to hang onto existing punters so they might not be
> >that expensive...
>
> Indeed. That might be the best idea. I'm sure that they would prefer to
> do it themselves. If it turns out that the additional cable does drop
> the signal to an unacceptably low level, they might be able to
> compensate by letting you have a bit more to compensate.

I can see them not being very helpful. All they offered last time I
spoke was for an engineer to come round and install a cable point
downstairs for £60. Given my landlord refuses to have anything to do
with TV in the house (we don't even have a terrestrial aerial) he
refuses to contribute. It wouldn't surprise me if they would weaken my
signal just to make sure I have to get them in!

Matt

In message
<e5d5b027-7855-442a-83fe-(E-Mail Removed)>,
Matt <(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>On Jan 13, 12:36*pm, Ian Jackson
><ianREMOVETHISjack...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <l4o6AdH0tHbJF...@bancom.co.uk>, tony sayer
>> <t...@bancom.co.uk> writes
>>
>>
>>
>> >In article <uRa4HiJQUGbJF...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk>, Ian Jackson <ianREMOVET
>> >HISjack...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> scribeth thus
>> >>In message <kK2asmFPCFbJF...@bancom.co.uk>, tony sayer
>> >><t...@bancom.co.uk> writes
>> >>>In article <b8b1e308-8cd4-4181-8c2e-c8a2a4922...@s1g2000prg.googlegroups
>> >>>.com>, Matt <matt...@hotmail.com> scribeth thus
>> >>>>Hey guys.
>>
>> >>>>I want to move my Virgin Media VBox (the one that provides cable TV)
>> >>>>downstairs. CUrrently the cable point is in the top floor of my house
>> >>>>(which has three storeys), so I estimate the cable will need to be
>> >>>>around 30m long to reach the lounge, which is fairly near the
>> >>>>staircase.
>>
>> >>>>However, will I find that the picture has been heavily degraded by
>> >>>>using a 30m coaxial cable? Would I be able to buy one in a shop, try
>> >>>>it out, and then take it back if it doesn't work?
>>
>> >>>>Kind Regards,
>>
>> >>>>Matt
>>
>> >>>Shouldn't do after all its prolly come several hundred metres from their
>> >>>roadside distribution cabinet..
>>
>> >>You can't say that. Networks are designed to deliver a precise range of
>> >>signal levels at the wall plate. Sometimes there is an unavoidable 'bit
>> >>to spare', and a 3 or 6dB in-line attenuator is inserted at the STB
>> >>input, but don't count on it.
>>
>> >What!, seeing the monkeys they employ for installation;?..
>>
>> "You might think that, but I couldn't possibly comment."
>>
>>
>>
>> >>>But do use a very good grade of cable as one of the major problems cable
>> >>>networks have is "egress" where signals leak from their system and they
>> >>>are duty bound to keep this within quite tight limits!...
>>
>> >>And don't forget "ingress". There's a reverse path (typically 15 to
>> >>65Mhz). If your connections and screening are not up to scratch, you may
>> >>cause problems to VM. DIY botches can be a cause of network problems.
>> >>The use of domestic satellite cable is not really considered good
>> >>practice. However.....
>>
>> >And Ingress .. but I didn't want to write a book on it all;!..
>>
>> >They have a very good grade of RG6 used hereabouts, but I'd reckon a
>> >good satellite grade cable would suffice or as someone else said ask
>> >them.
>>
>> The 'drop' cables (from cabinet to the home) are quad-shield RG6 (or
>> occasionally RG11 for very long runs). The attenuation of 30m of RG6 is
>> about 2dB at 100Mhz and 5.5dB at 750MHz. If the STB has a 6dB attenuator
>> fitted, there will be enough signal level at the HF end to allow the
>> addition the extra cable (although it might be a little high at the LF
>> end). If there is no attenuator, you might have a problem.
>>
>> >They are very keen to hang onto existing punters so they might not be
>> >that expensive...
>>
>> Indeed. That might be the best idea. I'm sure that they would prefer to
>> do it themselves. If it turns out that the additional cable does drop
>> the signal to an unacceptably low level, they might be able to
>> compensate by letting you have a bit more to compensate.
>
>I can see them not being very helpful. All they offered last time I
>spoke was for an engineer to come round and install a cable point
>downstairs for £60. Given my landlord refuses to have anything to do
>with TV in the house (we don't even have a terrestrial aerial) he
>refuses to contribute. It wouldn't surprise me if they would weaken my
>signal just to make sure I have to get them in!
>
>Matt
>
I'm no financial expert, but I reckon that £60 is a pretty reasonable
charge.

I don't understand why you should say that 'they' (VM?) would want to
weaken your signal. Do they charge for a visit even if there is a signal
level fault?
--
Ian

Ian Jackson wrote:
>> I can see them not being very helpful. All they offered last time I
>> spoke was for an engineer to come round and install a cable point
>> downstairs for £60. Given my landlord refuses to have anything to do
>> with TV in the house (we don't even have a terrestrial aerial) he
>> refuses to contribute. It wouldn't surprise me if they would weaken my
>> signal just to make sure I have to get them in!
>>
>> Matt
>>
> I'm no financial expert, but I reckon that £60 is a pretty reasonable
> charge.
>
> I don't understand why you should say that 'they' (VM?) would want to
> weaken your signal. Do they charge for a visit even if there is a signal
> level fault?

You rent the system from VM. No charge for a call.

BUT remember that it is Virgin Media's network you are planning to
tamper with - not yours!

Also take note of the ingress problem if you botch it - you won't score
any brownie points for killing the upstream side of their Internet
network (which is the same network used for TV.)

Terry

In message <Db3bl.9$(E-Mail Removed)2>, Terry Casey
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>Ian Jackson wrote:
>>> I can see them not being very helpful. All they offered last time I
>>> spoke was for an engineer to come round and install a cable point
>>> downstairs for £60. Given my landlord refuses to have anything to do
>>> with TV in the house (we don't even have a terrestrial aerial) he
>>> refuses to contribute. It wouldn't surprise me if they would weaken my
>>> signal just to make sure I have to get them in!
>>>
>>> Matt
>>>
>> I'm no financial expert, but I reckon that £60 is a pretty reasonable
>>charge.
>> I don't understand why you should say that 'they' (VM?) would want
>>to weaken your signal. Do they charge for a visit even if there is a
>>signal level fault?
>
>You rent the system from VM. No charge for a call.
>
>BUT remember that it is Virgin Media's network you are planning to
>tamper with - not yours!
>
>Also take note of the ingress problem if you botch it - you won't score
>any brownie points for killing the upstream side of their Internet
>network (which is the same network used for TV.)
>
>Terry

Indeed. Possibly the weakest link in the network are the connections
from the wall socket to the STB and/or cable modem (and there are
thousands of them). Tampering which results in ingress will not make you
popular with the network operator - or with your neighbours.
--
Ian