DEC Celebris w/ onboard 21143 troubles

SYN,

I've got a roomfull of DEC Celebris pcs, vintage 1997, that I'm trying
to turn into PXES etherboot thin clients.

First problem:

I'm using Redhat 9 for the initial build but it's giving me lots of
grief getting the onboard DS21143 nic working.

It refuses to bring up a link. I saw at scyld.com that this is a
known issue and several posts to use tulip. The one that comes w/ RH9
doesn't work. I tried to get the new one from scyld but it gave me
problems compiling (and I'm pretty much limited to "rpm -ivf " when it
comes to getting stuff installed.

I also tried the de4x5 w/ no joy.

Second problem:

My initial attempt at the etherboot was to use the ds21142 (and
various others) rom from rom-o-matic (floppy boot) but it refused to
bring up a link as well, so even if I get the nic working under Redhat
I still need to figure out the boot rom. Is it possible to compile a
boot rom image via Redhat?

I did pop a 3com 3c905 in it and used the boot rom for it and it
worked fine etherbooting a thinstation image.

I posted this 2nd problem on the etherboot list but there doesn't
appear to be a lot of activity there so thought I'd cross-post it here
as well.

Many thanks,
Rusty

"Rusty" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> SYN,
>
> I've got a roomfull of DEC Celebris pcs, vintage 1997, that I'm trying
> to turn into PXES etherboot thin clients.
>
> First problem:
>
> I'm using Redhat 9 for the initial build but it's giving me lots of
> grief getting the onboard DS21143 nic working.
>
> It refuses to bring up a link. I saw at scyld.com that this is a
> known issue and several posts to use tulip. The one that comes w/ RH9
> doesn't work. I tried to get the new one from scyld but it gave me
> problems compiling (and I'm pretty much limited to "rpm -ivf " when it
> comes to getting stuff installed.
>
> I also tried the de4x5 w/ no joy.
>
> Second problem:
>
> My initial attempt at the etherboot was to use the ds21142 (and
> various others) rom from rom-o-matic (floppy boot) but it refused to
> bring up a link as well, so even if I get the nic working under Redhat
> I still need to figure out the boot rom. Is it possible to compile a
> boot rom image via Redhat?
>
> I did pop a 3com 3c905 in it and used the boot rom for it and it
> worked fine etherbooting a thinstation image.
>
> I posted this 2nd problem on the etherboot list but there doesn't
> appear to be a lot of activity there so thought I'd cross-post it here
> as well.
>
> Many thanks,
> Rusty

Rusty;

Re the built-in ethernet, I have been able to have my installs find and
apply the correct driver to my Celebris P6200. I use it for either a
workstation with GUI or web server from a command prompt, depending on what
hard drive I boot. I used to use Red hat 5.2 and needed the tulip driver,
but with 7.3 and newer I have not had an issue. Maybe linuxconf would help?

Maybe the NIC is not enabled in the BIOS?

I don't have a clue on your second question.

Doug

Rusty wrote:
> SYN,
>
> I've got a roomfull of DEC Celebris pcs, vintage 1997, that I'm trying
> to turn into PXES etherboot thin clients.
>

when i used to work at DEC we used to call the Celebris "the Celebral
Hemorrhage". Pain in the A$$.

> First problem:
>
> I'm using Redhat 9 for the initial build but it's giving me lots of
> grief getting the onboard DS21143 nic working.
>
> It refuses to bring up a link. I saw at scyld.com that this is a
> known issue and several posts to use tulip. The one that comes w/ RH9
> doesn't work. I tried to get the new one from scyld but it gave me
> problems compiling (and I'm pretty much limited to "rpm -ivf " when it
> comes to getting stuff installed.
>

what do you mean by "refuses to bring up a link"? do you get a link at
all? or does it not pass traffic? post a kernel boot log to see if the
kernel loads the module at all. sometimes the 21142/3 doesnt
autonegotiate correctly and might give the false impression that it is
not working. you might need to pass kernel boot params to it so it can
set the link right.

> I also tried the de4x5 w/ no joy.
>

i believe there are 2 tulip drivers available. one works better than
the other.

> Second problem:
>
> My initial attempt at the etherboot was to use the ds21142 (and
> various others) rom from rom-o-matic (floppy boot) but it refused to
> bring up a link as well, so even if I get the nic working under Redhat
> I still need to figure out the boot rom. Is it possible to compile a
> boot rom image via Redhat?
>
> I did pop a 3com 3c905 in it and used the boot rom for it and it
> worked fine etherbooting a thinstation image.
>
> I posted this 2nd problem on the etherboot list but there doesn't
> appear to be a lot of activity there so thought I'd cross-post it here
> as well.
>
> Many thanks,
> Rusty

Marco Benton <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<2qb642-(E-Mail Removed)>...
> Rusty wrote:
> > SYN,
> >
> > I've got a roomfull of DEC Celebris pcs, vintage 1997, that I'm trying
> > to turn into PXES etherboot thin clients.
> >
>
> when i used to work at DEC we used to call the Celebris "the Celebral
> Hemorrhage". Pain in the A$$.
>

A DEC man! Whew - I'm a VMS guy since the 11/780. DEC support has
been hands down the best after almost 20 years in this business (Cisco
running a close 2nd).

> > First problem:
> >
> > I'm using Redhat 9 for the initial build but it's giving me lots of
> > grief getting the onboard DS21143 nic working.
> >
> > It refuses to bring up a link. I saw at scyld.com that this is a
> > known issue and several posts to use tulip. The one that comes w/ RH9
> > doesn't work. I tried to get the new one from scyld but it gave me
> > problems compiling (and I'm pretty much limited to "rpm -ivf " when it
> > comes to getting stuff installed.
> >
>
> what do you mean by "refuses to bring up a link"? do you get a link at
> all? or does it not pass traffic? post a kernel boot log to see if the
> kernel loads the module at all. sometimes the 21142/3 doesnt
> autonegotiate correctly and might give the false impression that it is
> not working. you might need to pass kernel boot params to it so it can
> set the link right.
>

during boot when briging up eth0 it fails w/ a "no link present"
error.
Same thing for an "ifup eth0" after boot.

The annoying thing is that if these machines were 1 year OLDER this
project would be a peice-o-cake! (The S3 Virge is also giving me lots
of X fits.)

I didn't really see any boot options that seemed applicable. Install
didn't put any in modules.conf either. Of course, that doesn't mean
it's correct.

The bizarre thing is that I've got a pc at home w/ a DE500 with the
same 21143 chipset. It's worked flawlessly under RH 6-9 with the tulip
driver.

I'll post a dmesg output Monday.

> > I also tried the de4x5 w/ no joy.
> >
>
> i believe there are 2 tulip drivers available. one works better than
> the other.
>
> > Second problem:
> >
> > My initial attempt at the etherboot was to use the ds21142 (and
> > various others) rom from rom-o-matic (floppy boot) but it refused to
> > bring up a link as well, so even if I get the nic working under Redhat
> > I still need to figure out the boot rom. Is it possible to compile a
> > boot rom image via Redhat?
> >
> > I did pop a 3com 3c905 in it and used the boot rom for it and it
> > worked fine etherbooting a thinstation image.
> >
> > I posted this 2nd problem on the etherboot list but there doesn't
> > appear to be a lot of activity there so thought I'd cross-post it here
> > as well.
> >
> > Many thanks,
> > Rusty

Marco Benton <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<2qb642-(E-Mail Removed)>...
> Rusty wrote:
> > SYN,
> >
> > I've got a roomfull of DEC Celebris pcs, vintage 1997, that I'm trying
> > to turn into PXES etherboot thin clients.
> >
>
> when i used to work at DEC we used to call the Celebris "the Celebral
> Hemorrhage". Pain in the A$$.
>
> > First problem:
> >
> > I'm using Redhat 9 for the initial build but it's giving me lots of
> > grief getting the onboard DS21143 nic working.
> >
> > It refuses to bring up a link. I saw at scyld.com that this is a
> > known issue and several posts to use tulip. The one that comes w/ RH9
> > doesn't work. I tried to get the new one from scyld but it gave me
> > problems compiling (and I'm pretty much limited to "rpm -ivf " when it
> > comes to getting stuff installed.
> >
>
> what do you mean by "refuses to bring up a link"? do you get a link at
> all? or does it not pass traffic? post a kernel boot log to see if the
> kernel loads the module at all. sometimes the 21142/3 doesnt
> autonegotiate correctly and might give the false impression that it is
> not working. you might need to pass kernel boot params to it so it can
> set the link right.
>
> > I also tried the de4x5 w/ no joy.
> >
>
> i believe there are 2 tulip drivers available. one works better than
> the other.
>

RE the drivers - I only saw one at scyld. I was going to try it if I
can figure out how to get it compiled. The one that ships w/ RH9 is
circa 2002 and there's a tulip_old that's circa 1999. (all hail Mr.
Becker!). Both that come w/ redhat appear to be sliced and diced (eg
have plugins and hearders for different chipsets) where the one at
scyld.com appears to be all inclusive.

I haven't tried the tulip_old since I just discovered it on my home
machine
:-/. I'll try it on monday and post results.

Thanks again!


> > Second problem:
> >
> > My initial attempt at the etherboot was to use the ds21142 (and
> > various others) rom from rom-o-matic (floppy boot) but it refused to
> > bring up a link as well, so even if I get the nic working under Redhat
> > I still need to figure out the boot rom. Is it possible to compile a
> > boot rom image via Redhat?
> >
> > I did pop a 3com 3c905 in it and used the boot rom for it and it
> > worked fine etherbooting a thinstation image.
> >
> > I posted this 2nd problem on the etherboot list but there doesn't
> > appear to be a lot of activity there so thought I'd cross-post it here
> > as well.
> >
> > Many thanks,
> > Rusty

Rusty wrote:

<...snip...>

>
> RE the drivers - I only saw one at scyld. I was going to try it if I
> can figure out how to get it compiled. The one that ships w/ RH9 is
> circa 2002 and there's a tulip_old that's circa 1999. (all hail Mr.
> Becker!). Both that come w/ redhat appear to be sliced and diced (eg
> have plugins and hearders for different chipsets) where the one at
> scyld.com appears to be all inclusive.
>
> I haven't tried the tulip_old since I just discovered it on my home
> machine
> :-/. I'll try it on monday and post results.
>
> Thanks again!
>
>

i'm having a brain cramp trying to remember how the Celebris had the
card embedded. i do remember the Prioris HX/MX embedded tulips had 3
media connectors. although i havent had thinwire or an AUI connector
for quite some time, i beleive it did pick the right port. and again
there was a kernel and module parameter to pass to force AUI, thinwire
(10base2), and UTP (10/100). check out http://www.scyld.com/tulip.html
for what params are needed.

an old example i had (for module loading) /etc/modules.conf:
alias eth0 de4x5
options de4x5 args="eth0:hdx"

or for most modern tulip you can use the MII transceiver:
/sbin/mii-tool -F 100baseTx-FD

Hi again,


I downloaded the pci-scan.c, pci-scan.h, kern_compat.h, tulip.c and
the makefile from scyld.

I compiled w/ just "make tulip.o" and make "tci-scan.o"

The make commands returned no errors and created the objects fine.

Then insmod pci-scan.o and insmod tulip.o. The pci-scan inserted
correctly but tulip.o puked a LOT of output (which I tried to capture
with a > redirect but couldn't) and ended with a bad eip value and
kernel panic.

dmesg doesn't show anything useful.

It would appear that my "make" attempt at compiling the source from
scyld failed. a "depmod -a" shows "unresolved symbols in
/lib/modules/yadayad/tulip.o"

Rusty wrote:
> It would appear that my "make" attempt at compiling the source from
> scyld failed. a "depmod -a" shows "unresolved symbols in
> /lib/modules/yadayad/tulip.o"

did you try the de4x5 or tulip_old drivers?

i've never seen a problem in using the supplied drivers from the kernel.
usually if the drivers say "...no link..." , that could mean wrong
media being used (like AUI port, etc...) or link speed is incorrect and
it autonegotiated wrong.

sample kernel/driver msg from the de4x5 driver w/ 21142 chip and AUI
transceiver:
eth0: media is unconnected, link down or incompatible connection.

i still would try passing module params to force it to use the UTP port.
i even remember the DE205/435 had a jumper that you had to move to use
the UTP port.

woah... just got a flashback... i had a Celebris XL (2x90MHz CPU) on
my desk (running linux 2.0) and that didnt have built in ethernet...
but the desktop model had a 21040 ethernet. have you tried plain old
10/half on your switch? isnt the 3c905 a PCI 10meg card? are you sure
it's a 2114x in there?

Marco Benton <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<rqjg42-(E-Mail Removed)>...
> Rusty wrote:
> > It would appear that my "make" attempt at compiling the source from
> > scyld failed. a "depmod -a" shows "unresolved symbols in
> > /lib/modules/yadayad/tulip.o"
>
> did you try the de4x5 or tulip_old drivers?
>
> i've never seen a problem in using the supplied drivers from the kernel.
> usually if the drivers say "...no link..." , that could mean wrong
> media being used (like AUI port, etc...) or link speed is incorrect and
> it autonegotiated wrong.
>
> sample kernel/driver msg from the de4x5 driver w/ 21142 chip and AUI
> transceiver:
> eth0: media is unconnected, link down or incompatible connection.
>
> i still would try passing module params to force it to use the UTP port.
> i even remember the DE205/435 had a jumper that you had to move to use
> the UTP port.
>
> woah... just got a flashback... i had a Celebris XL (2x90MHz CPU) on
> my desk (running linux 2.0) and that didnt have built in ethernet...
> but the desktop model had a 21040 ethernet. have you tried plain old
> 10/half on your switch? isnt the 3c905 a PCI 10meg card? are you sure
> it's a 2114x in there?

I decided to start from square one and rolled back to the RH9 OEM
tulip and it worked fine. Go figure.

Unfortuantely I can't find an Etherboot image that works (timeout
reaching dhcp server and won't bring up a link. There're several
comments in the Etherboot forum archives about Etherboot and the 21143
not playing well together) nor can I get X to work (with out spending
many hours in the process) so I think the project is basically
still-born with that hardware. 300 PC's End-Of-Life!

Many thanks for all the input!