Creating a network obstructed by concrete

So I've been given the task of finding and setting up the appropriate
equipment to allow WiFi access throughout my compound. Theres one major
obstable though, concrete (or the meshing inside, whichever). I've
included a video to show you what the situation is, please view it
before reading on.

'Video' (http://digitalbound.net/house.avi) (Right click, Save Target
As)

So what kind of setup would be best? My current router is beside the TV
on the first floor, with that I can get a signal at the front of the
other two buildings (note theres one fourth building to my extreme
right, you can ignore that). However, as soon as I enter the other two
buildings or proceed to walk around inside them, the signal is reduced
to nothing because of all the thick walls (I can only get a signal by
the windows).

If you noticed, I've got 3 foneras setup in WDS in the building I
walked through. With those I'm able to get wifi coverage throughout the
first building, but I would like to think of that as a temporary
solution (I had to setup 3 SSIDs due to firmware bugs :/) BTW, the 3
fons are at 0:08 (bottom right), 0:19 (on the corner of the little
shelf to the left of the stairway) and 0:33 (on the tv, connected to my
main router).

I was thinking of getting a Hawking Hi-Gain signal booster, and wiring
that up to the router, and perhaps attaching a Hi-Gain antenna to the
booster. Though I'm not sure how many I'd need, or if I'd have to use
extra repeaters for that matter (slicing the throughput in half isn't
fun). Also please note that running long cables isn't exactly an
option.

Please Advise!


------------------------------------------------------------------------
View this thread: http://www.wirelessforums.org/showthread.php?t=22779
http://www.wirelessforums.org

Wow, those look like they will be hard to penetrate with wireless
signal.

I would recommend putting some sort of commercial-grade equipment in
each of the three buildings doing DWDS between the three devices. The
commercial grade equipment will give you stronger signal power, and
will allow you to really tune in the network.

If you want to talk about this in depth, please give me a call at
866-678-WIFI.

Thanks
Chris Hutchison, CEO
NetSteady
Columbus, Ohio

On Tue, 5 Jun 2007 01:04:23 -0400, Shak
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>'Video' (http://digitalbound.net/house.avi) (Right click, Save Target
>As)

Nice video. Very helpful. The buildings look very new. Didn't
someone run communications conduit for telco and cable somewhere
between buildings? If you've got conduit, just run CAT5 or fiber
between buildings and you're done. If you've got spare telco pairs,
you can run HomePNA over the phone lines. I don't see any vegetation
on the lawn yet. Perhaps doing some digging and burying some conduit
might be more useful than trying to go through the thick walls.

>So what kind of setup would be best?

How much do you wanna spend?

>My current router is beside the TV
>on the first floor, with that I can get a signal at the front of the
>other two buildings (note theres one fourth building to my extreme
>right, you can ignore that). However, as soon as I enter the other two
>buildings or proceed to walk around inside them, the signal is reduced
>to nothing because of all the thick walls (I can only get a signal by
>the windows).

Yep. You're not going to go through the walls no matter how hard you
try. You're also making it difficult by adding an extra wall at your
location. If this is going to a neighborhood WLAN, then the central
access point should probably be in the middle of the houses, possibly
attached to the light posts in the video. A 10dBi omnidirection
antenna on the light post should work. More gain if you want better
penetration. If a central AP and antenna are impossible, at least
move the AP and antenna to somewhere outside.

Also, I think you might be fighting the windows. I can't tell but are
the windows coated with a "low-e" reflective coating? If so, that's
about as bad as the concrete wall. Might was well go wired if your
windows are impervious to RF.

>If you noticed, I've got 3 foneras setup in WDS in the building I
>walked through. With those I'm able to get wifi coverage throughout the
>first building, but I would like to think of that as a temporary
>solution (I had to setup 3 SSIDs due to firmware bugs :/) BTW, the 3
>fons are at 0:08 (bottom right), 0:19 (on the corner of the little
>shelf to the left of the stairway) and 0:33 (on the tv, connected to my
>main router).

Actually, that's what I was going to suggest for a wireless solution.
It doesn't have to be a FON based system as DD-WRT and other firmware
will do WDS quite nicely (hopefully without bugs). Also, you don't
really need WDS as it can be done by setting up the central access
point for "point to multipoint bridging" and then using the clients as
an "ethernet client bridge". There's no real advantage to either
method, but if you're fighting bugs, it does provide an alternative.

>I was thinking of getting a Hawking Hi-Gain signal booster, and wiring
>that up to the router, and perhaps attaching a Hi-Gain antenna to the
>booster. Though I'm not sure how many I'd need, or if I'd have to use
>extra repeaters for that matter (slicing the throughput in half isn't
>fun).

Repeaters are always a problem. You could install one on the
centrally located light pole, instead of installing the central access
point at that location. Your thruput will suffer because there will
be two packets floating through the air instead of one. I can't tell
for sure but my guess is that no amount of power is going to make it
through those concrete walls to the back of the houses. There's
nothing that says it has to be *ALL* wired or *ALL* wireless. Mixing
technologies is fine where appropriate. Use wires to get through the
walls and wireless indoors.

Power amplifiers have a different problem in that they only solve the
signal problem in one direction. With a power amp, everyone can hear
the transmitter, but the ACK's from the users can't be heard by the
receiver. Amps are generally a bad idea (and rather expensive).
Better antennas improve the signal in both directions and don't have
this problem.

>Also please note that running long cables isn't exactly an
>option.

Why not? It's cheaper, faster and better. Get a crew together, rent
a trencher, and start laying PVC pipe. Run CAT5 or fiber. Once you
get the cable inside the house, install a wireless access point inside
the house so that the users don't have to wire the houses.


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

Another candidate Powerline Networking?

http://www.netgear.com/Products/Powe...tAdapters.aspx

seaweedsteve wrote:
> Another candidate Powerline Networking?
>
> http://www.netgear.com/Products/Powe...tAdapters.aspx

For what it's worth, my house has a cement load bearing wall in the middle,
that effectively blocks wireless big time.. I went with multiple wap's (
linksys wrt54g's, same ssid different channels) and powerline networking ((2
of em, $84 at staples ))- second wap plug the cat5 from the powerline unit
into the router part not the wan in)... works like a charm, and I can even
move one unit at will, and now have 2 more to fill in dead spots (had to get
wifi working in the gazebo in the woods out back, so I could lay in the
hammock and surf Hey no football, gotta relax somewhere!

Wondering about speed? Hey, the powerline networking is FASTER than wireless
(85Mbps instead of 54), and yes, got the tivo on the network, and tivo 2 go,
so I can lay on the hammock and watch videos I have recorded.....