Connection stalls until I do ping/traceroute in router

Hi, so this just happened a couple mins ago and is an example of what
happens fairly frequently to me...

- browsing web using FireFox (Windows XP, latest SP)
- suddenly online music stops playing and current (& future) web page
loads no longer work (ie. wireless connection seems broken/dropped)
- I use FF to access my Linksys router home page (which works fine)
- go to Administration->Diagnostics, click on Traceroute button
- window takes several long seconds to come up but as soon as it does,
music starts again and web page loading works fine again

Other things *sometimes* work (like ipconfig /release & /renew) but
clicking Traceroute or Ping on the router page almost always fixes the
issue.

Is this definitely a router issue or could some other component be
contributing (Windows, wireless adapter, ISP)? If router, how to fix/
minimize? (settings? firmware?) Thanks!

ps. I've written about this previously a while ago here:
http://groups.google.com/group/micro...62a537078bfd6e

Disable power management on the network interface in the computer. It's
probably losing connection when it tries to idle the port.

On Mar 26, 6:12 am, "Bill Kearney" <wkearne...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Disable power management on the network interface in the computer. It's
> probably losing connection when it tries to idle the port.

Thanks for the quick reply! That's probably causing some of my lost
connection issues so I'll definitely do that. I think the situation
earlier may have been different though since I could access the router
(wirelessly) no problem - it's just that sites/nodes beyond that
weren't accessible until bringing up the Traceroute dialog/window
somehow reset something.

On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 05:51:02 -0700 (PDT), sdaws <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Is this definitely a router issue or could some other component be
>contributing (Windows, wireless adapter, ISP)? If router, how to fix/
>minimize? (settings? firmware?) Thanks!

What is a Linksys "54G" router?
Do you have a real model number?
If yes, look on the serial number tag and include the hardware
revision number. (v1 thru v8).
What firmware version are you using? Look on the setup status page.

>ps. I've written about this previously a while ago here:
>http://groups.google.com/group/micro...62a537078bfd6e

Check the WAN "idle timeout" settings. Set it to zero. You might be
disconnecting from the ISP.

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mar 26, 9:50 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 05:51:02 -0700 (PDT), sdaws <sdaw...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Is this definitely a router issue or could some other component be
> >contributing (Windows, wireless adapter, ISP)? If router, how to fix/
> >minimize? (settings? firmware?) Thanks!
>
> What is a Linksys "54G" router?
> Do you have a real model number?
> If yes, look on the serial number tag and include the hardware
> revision number. (v1 thru v8).
> What firmware version are you using? Look on the setup status page.
>
> >ps. I've written about this previously a while ago here:
> >http://groups.google.com/group/micro....networking.wi...
>
> Check the WAN "idle timeout" settings. Set it to zero. You might be
> disconnecting from the ISP.
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your reply.

Here are the details on the router:
http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satel...=0034939789B04

WRT45G v2.2
Firmware Version: v3.03.1, Oct. 18, 2004

I wasn't able to find the WAN "idle timeout" settings.

sdaws wrote:
> On Mar 26, 9:50 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 05:51:02 -0700 (PDT), sdaws <sdaw...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Is this definitely a router issue or could some other component be
>>> contributing (Windows, wireless adapter, ISP)? If router, how to fix/
>>> minimize? (settings? firmware?) Thanks!
>>>
>> What is a Linksys "54G" router?
>> Do you have a real model number?
>> If yes, look on the serial number tag and include the hardware
>> revision number. (v1 thru v8).
>> What firmware version are you using? Look on the setup status page.
>>
>>
>>> ps. I've written about this previously a while ago here:
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/micro....networking.wi...
>>>
>> Check the WAN "idle timeout" settings. Set it to zero. You might be
>> disconnecting from the ISP.
>>
>> --
>> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
>> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
>> Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
>> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>>
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> Here are the details on the router:
> http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satel...=0034939789B04
>
> WRT45G v2.2
> Firmware Version: v3.03.1, Oct. 18, 2004
>
> I wasn't able to find the WAN "idle timeout" settings.
>
You are well behind on firmware as it is now on 4.21.1 1/30/2007

Idle time or keep alive does not show if you are using "Auto DHCP" or
"Static IP"
http://ui.linksys.com/files/WRT54G/v...etup_PPPoE.htm

On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 05:05:55 -0700 (PDT), sdaws <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>WRT45G v2.2
>Firmware Version: v3.03.1, Oct. 18, 2004

Old version of the firmware. The current version for the v2.2 router
is 4.21.1. See:
<http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_CASupport_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayo ut&cid=1166859837401&packedargs=sku%3DWRT54G&pagen ame=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper&lid=37401374 01B01&displaypage=download#versiondetail>
Download and install please.

>I wasn't able to find the WAN "idle timeout" settings.

You're right. No WAN "timeout" or "idle timeout" setting for DHCP or
Static connections:
<http://ui.linksys.com/files/WRT54G/v1-v4/3.01.3/Setup-DHCP.htm>
However, I made a guess(tm) that you have a PPPoE setup, which does
have a "Connect on Demand: Max Idle Time". See:
<http://ui.linksys.com/files/WRT54G/v1-v4/3.01.3/Setup-PPPoE.htm>

It's common to have the DSL modem do the PPPoE login, where the DSL
modem does the PPPoE login. It will also have an "idle timeout" type
of setting.

I looked at your previously referenced article yesterday, but forgot
the details of your setup. Today, Google complains that it can't
display the article:
<http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windows.networking.wireless/browse_thread/thread/257d63174b49a76b/b162a537078bfd6e>
"An error occurred while processing your request..."
I'm not even sure you have DSL, cable, satellite, etc. Could you
please describe your setup again? Makers, models, versions, and such?

Also, simply complaining that you are effectively disconnected doesn't
tell anyone at which point you are getting disconnected. It could be
between your computah and the WRT54G v2.2. It could be the router
timing out. It could be the DSL modem timing out. It could be your
ISP "rotating" IP addresses or rebooting their routers. It could be
between your ISP and their connection to the interknot.

When it happens again, get ready to use ping to see where it's broken.
I'll assume that your WRT54g v2.2 is at 192.168.1.1. Go to the
"status" page in the WRT54G and write down the gateway IP address of
your ISP. Then, try this with a working system to see how the results
look. Then, unplug something and watch it fail.

For Windoze:
Start -> run -> cmd <Enter>
ping 192.168.1.1 (ping the router)
If that works, try:
ping gateway_ip_address_of_ISP (ping the ISP)
If that works, try:
ping www.google.com (check if DNS is working)
and
ping xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx (IP address of anything on the internet)

The point where pings fail will give you a clue as to WHERE you are
being disconnected (and possibly why). If this is a common problem,
you might wanna do the above continuously. For that, I use "FreePing"
at:
<http://www.tools4ever.com/products/free/freeping/>
I setup the various IP addresses as previously itemized and let it
run. However, pinging too often is impolite, so I set the ping
interval for 5 minutes for each system. This also acts as a keep
alive and prevents idle out timers from disconnecting.

Also, if the updated firmware doesn't fix the problem, you might want
to try one of the alternative firmware releases, such as DD-WRT.
<http://www.dd-wrt.com>
I'm running v24 RC6.2 on literally all my similar routers, without
good success. However, it is a much more complex setup and
configuration.

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> Also, if the updated firmware doesn't fix the problem, you might want
> to try one of the alternative firmware releases, such as DD-WRT.
> <http://www.dd-wrt.com>
> I'm running v24 RC6.2 on literally all my similar routers, without
> good success.
Did you mean "with good success"?
> However, it is a much more complex setup and
> configuration.
>
>

On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:25:59 +0000, LR <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> Also, if the updated firmware doesn't fix the problem, you might want
>> to try one of the alternative firmware releases, such as DD-WRT.
>> <http://www.dd-wrt.com>
>> I'm running v24 RC6.2 on literally all my similar routers, without
>> good success.

>Did you mean "with good success"?

Groan. Yes, DD-WRT works for me. One of my friends ended up with a
WRT54G v5 router. Using the stock firmware, it was hanging and doing
strange things every few hours. Uptime was maybe a day, at best. I've
had no luck with DD-WRT fixing v5 and v6 routers in the past, but I
thought it wouldn't hurt to try again. I just checked his splash
page, which shows 22 days uptime. Nice.

Looks like we came to about the same conclusions on the router
problem. It's amazing what supplying a few numbers can do.

Anyways, it's 6:30AM here. I've had about 3 hours of snooze. Brain
is only semi-functional, at best. I just wrote a long reply to
another question, and fortunately didn't post it. It was all wrong.
Sun is starting to come up. Maybe I should go back to sleep.....

>> However, it is a much more complex setup and
>> configuration.

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mar 27, 6:21 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 05:05:55 -0700 (PDT), sdaws <sdaw...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >WRT45G v2.2
> >Firmware Version: v3.03.1, Oct. 18, 2004
>
> Old version of the firmware. The current version for the v2.2 router
> is 4.21.1. See:
> <http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_CASupport_C2&childpagena...>
> Download and install please.
>
> >I wasn't able to find the WAN "idle timeout" settings.
>
> You're right. No WAN "timeout" or "idle timeout" setting for DHCP or
> Static connections:
> <http://ui.linksys.com/files/WRT54G/v1-v4/3.01.3/Setup-DHCP.htm>
> However, I made a guess(tm) that you have a PPPoE setup, which does
> have a "Connect on Demand: Max Idle Time". See:
> <http://ui.linksys.com/files/WRT54G/v1-v4/3.01.3/Setup-PPPoE.htm>
>
> It's common to have the DSL modem do the PPPoE login, where the DSL
> modem does the PPPoE login. It will also have an "idle timeout" type
> of setting.
>
> I looked at your previously referenced article yesterday, but forgot
> the details of your setup. Today, Google complains that it can't
> display the article:
> <http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windows.networking.wi...>
> "An error occurred while processing your request..."
> I'm not even sure you have DSL, cable, satellite, etc. Could you
> please describe your setup again? Makers, models, versions, and such?
>
> Also, simply complaining that you are effectively disconnected doesn't
> tell anyone at which point you are getting disconnected. It could be
> between your computah and the WRT54G v2.2. It could be the router
> timing out. It could be the DSL modem timing out. It could be your
> ISP "rotating" IP addresses or rebooting their routers. It could be
> between your ISP and their connection to the interknot.
>
> When it happens again, get ready to use ping to see where it's broken.
> I'll assume that your WRT54g v2.2 is at 192.168.1.1. Go to the
> "status" page in the WRT54G and write down the gateway IP address of
> your ISP. Then, try this with a working system to see how the results
> look. Then, unplug something and watch it fail.
>
> For Windoze:
> Start -> run -> cmd <Enter>
> ping 192.168.1.1 (ping the router)
> If that works, try:
> ping gateway_ip_address_of_ISP (ping the ISP)
> If that works, try:
> pingwww.google.com (check if DNS is working)
> and
> ping xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx (IP address of anything on the internet)
>
> The point where pings fail will give you a clue as to WHERE you are
> being disconnected (and possibly why). If this is a common problem,
> you might wanna do the above continuously. For that, I use "FreePing"
> at:
> <http://www.tools4ever.com/products/free/freeping/>
> I setup the various IP addresses as previously itemized and let it
> run. However, pinging too often is impolite, so I set the ping
> interval for 5 minutes for each system. This also acts as a keep
> alive and prevents idle out timers from disconnecting.
>
> Also, if the updated firmware doesn't fix the problem, you might want
> to try one of the alternative firmware releases, such as DD-WRT.
> <http://www.dd-wrt.com>
> I'm running v24 RC6.2 on literally all my similar routers, without
> good success. However, it is a much more complex setup and
> configuration.
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff, thanks again for your reply and the troubleshooting tips. I
don't know a lot about all this stuff but I did try to find out where
the connection was failing but it seems to switch around (either I
can't get to the router, or I can't get past it - maybe diff probs/
reasons) but mostly almost nothing works, or everything works - and
what makes things work changes each time (but usually bringing up the
traceroute/ping panel is one of the more likely things to fix it -
note that it never fails somewhere along the trace - either I can't
trace/ping at all, or trace works all the way to the destination -
somewhere just before the trace starts or part way during the trace,
everything else starts working again). Sometimes ipconfig /release & /
renew works (either to get to the router if I couldn't before; or to
get to the rest of the 'net).

Here's what happened earlier tonight (this time with my newer notebook
which has never previously had these types of issues)...

- notebook was on, (wireless) net connection working fine
- left for a while, came back (only screen was in powersave mode)
- 'net not working, nothing would fix it (couldn't get to router)
- unplugged router and modem; plugged both back in
- now could access router (192.168.1.1) but nothing past that
- went to Status page; tried DHCP release & renew (still broken)
- went to diagnostic page; clicked traceroute button -> as window
comes up, everything starts working again

Here are the details you requested...

- DSL (AT&T/Yahoo) [I live near you, btw - our cities have the same
first word ]
- older notebook (Dell Insp 8200, XP, AirLink+ usb adapter)
- newer notebook (Dell Insp1521, Vista, Dell builtin wireless)
- you have the router details; anything else?

I've been hesitant to do a firmware upgrade because I've heard some
people have had more problems after doing that (and it can't be backed
out?) so only do it if you KNOW that the upgrade fixes a problem you
have. But since I AM having issues w/ the router, I'll go ahead and
do it.