Connecting router to router question

I posted a question a week ago regarding a ADSL modem/router and a
safecom wired/wireless router.

The ADSL modem+router is the BT Voyager 105.
Thw wireless/wired router is a safecom 5400 (802.11G, 4 LAN ports, 1
WAN port)

I managed to get the two to work with each other, but the configuration
needs a little tweaking.

Someone told me that access point mode would solve all of this.

I did a google search and access point refers to wireless. I use 2 of
the LAN ports to the Safecom router as well as 2 machines using the
wireless connection.

The way I have it set up at the moment, is that each PC has their own
IP address.
The PCs and the Safecom router are all on the same subnet mask

ie 192.168.123.xyz

The default gateway is set to the IP address of the Voyager ie
192.168.1.1
On the Safecom DCHP is set to off.

I still feel that surfing was slightly faster when the PCI ADSL modem
was in, and I didnt have to mess about with port forwarding when using
Bittorent.
Im trying to get the optimum speed from the current setup before I mess
about with ports for p2p programs to work.



Someone suggested that I set the router to access point mode. This is
where I am confused.

Is access point applicable to wired or wireless connections?
As I have both.

I came accross this site:

http://www.ezlan.net/router_AP.html

The inference I draw from this is an access point is a switch.
In effect I am turning the router into a glorified switch.

I'll try it later this weekend and see how things go.

On 14 Aug 2005 09:15:54 -0700, "Aosmosis" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I posted a question a week ago regarding a ADSL modem/router and a
>safecom wired/wireless router.
>The ADSL modem+router is the BT Voyager 105.

205 :-)

>The wireless/wired router is a safecom 5400 (802.11G, 4 LAN ports, 1
>WAN port)

>Someone suggested that I set the router to access point mode. This is
>where I am confused.
>
>Is access point applicable to wired or wireless connections?
>As I have both.

it will do both wired and wireless, as I told you last time. I guess
you have some psychological need to "ask the audience" and get a
majority vote so let's have a show of hands, folks :-)

>I came accross this site:
>
>http://www.ezlan.net/router_AP.html
>
>The inference I draw from this is an access point is a switch.
>In effect I am turning the router into a glorified switch.

correct, because the Voyager 205 is already a router all you need is a
glorified switch to connect the wired and wireless bits to it. An
access point with wired ports bridges wired and wireless LAN together.

That site describes what you have done already, doesn't it. The next
step is to put the Safecom *into Access Point mode* and away you go. I
did this with a Belkin "wireless broadband router" and it worked a
treat.

Phil
--
Remember - Global Warming is only a weather forecast :-)

On 14 Aug 2005 09:15, "Aosmosis" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Someone told me that access point mode would solve all of this.

A single unit having ADSL modem / router / wireless would really solve
it. I don't have wireless here (and have plenty of other things to do
without wanting to spend money and then time on messing about with the
wireless kit to check different wireless kit config options... However
I did set up a modestly priced Belkin F5D7630 (I think...) for friends
a year ago and I believe most of these wireless units have 4 ports for
connecting wired systems in (handy/essential for setup, too :-) Peter

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Thanks Phil,

No I wasnt doubting you expertise, was just confused lol.

I found the following link on Safecom's site

http://adsltech.com/portal/forum

Very useful. There isnt an option to use it as an access point, however
I was nearly there previously.
Then I came accross this site:

http://www.tech24.arce.co.uk/rap.htm

Which shows how to use the router as an access point.
Only downside is that I use a LAN port, so only have 1 spare

I came accross another safecom product similar to what I have but it
can be configured as an access point.

http://www.safecom.cn/code/sub/categ...=30&subcatid=2

Now I wonder if the 2 products are the same, but they run different
firmware. Basically I feel it converts the WAN port to a LAN port so
you can still use the existing LAN port. Anyone know any different?
I'm not going to risk mis-flashing :P

Thanks for your help.

On 14 Aug 2005 12:37:23 -0700, "Aosmosis" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Now I wonder if the 2 products are the same, but they run different
>firmware. Basically I feel it converts the WAN port to a LAN port so
>you can still use the existing LAN port. Anyone know any different?

that would sound right. Disable routing, firewall, NAT etc and make
the WAN port into a LAN uplink and you have an access point.

The device you originally pointed us to was listed as having an access
point mode.
http://www.safecom.cn/code/sub/categ...158&subcatid=2

if it is in fact a
http://safecom.cn/code/sub/category....=30&subcatid=2 then that
doesn't list an access point mode. So best read the labels and decide
what it is you are dealing with before going any further :-)

Backwards feeding via a LAN port is another viable approach.

Phil
--
Remember - Global Warming is only a weather forecast :-)

Phil Thompson wrote:
> On 14 Aug 2005 12:37:23 -0700, "Aosmosis" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> >Now I wonder if the 2 products are the same, but they run different
> >firmware. Basically I feel it converts the WAN port to a LAN port so
> >you can still use the existing LAN port. Anyone know any different?
>
> that would sound right. Disable routing, firewall, NAT etc and make
> the WAN port into a LAN uplink and you have an access point.
>
> The device you originally pointed us to was listed as having an access
> point mode.
> http://www.safecom.cn/code/sub/categ...158&subcatid=2
>
> if it is in fact a
> http://safecom.cn/code/sub/category....=30&subcatid=2 then that
> doesn't list an access point mode. So best read the labels and decide
> what it is you are dealing with before going any further :-)
>
> Backwards feeding via a LAN port is another viable approach.
>
> Phil


Hi Phil,

What is backward feeding?

Let me see if I correctly understand what converting a router into a
switch involves.


1) As The Safecom wireless/wired router has 1 IP address and the
Voyager another, the IP addresses must be of the same subnet.

Safecom is 192.168.123.254
Voyager is 192.168.1.1

The PCs connected via wire & wireless have IP addresses 192.168.123.xyz

So it would be easier to change the IP address of the Voyager.
The voyager needs to have its DCHP switched to on. I need to make sure
that the safecom "switch" and all the PCs do not have IP address that
are allocated to the DCHP pool range on the voyager.

Would this be ok?

IP address of Voyager 192.168.123.1
DCHP pool range 192.168.123.100 to 192.168.123.150

Safecom "switch" IP 192.168.123.60
PC 1 192.168.123.65
PC 2 192.168.123.70
PC 3 192.168.123.75
PC 4 192.168.123.80


I then turn DCHP on the safecom to off.
>From what I can remember there is a box in the safecom that asks me for
the default gateway IP. As the Voyager is not connected to the Safecom
via the WAN port, I dont think its going to autodetect.
Would the default gateway be the IP address of the Voyager ie
192.168.123.1


Also as I have manually supplied the IP address for all the PCs, tehre
is a box for the default gateway.

Would this be the IP address for the Voyager or Safecom.
I am thinking of the Voyager, as Gateways FWIU are found between WANs
and LANs

Also in the dialog box where you manually specify the IP addresses in
windows XP there is a box that asks for

1) Primary DNS
2) Secondary DNS

I guess I would need to manually specify it.


Is my logic correct?


Also, If I set the IP address of all the PCs to automatic, DCHP on the
safecom set of off, will the voyager give the DNS and automatically
asign the IP addresses to all 4 PCs? Will it automatically work out
what the defualt gateway is?

Thanks for your help

"Aosmosis" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
> Let me see if I correctly understand what converting a router into a
> switch involves.
>
> 1) As The Safecom wireless/wired router has 1 IP address and the
> Voyager another, the IP addresses must be of the same subnet.
>
> Safecom is 192.168.123.254
> Voyager is 192.168.1.1
>
> The PCs connected via wire & wireless have IP addresses 192.168.123.xyz
>
> So it would be easier to change the IP address of the Voyager.

Yep.

> The voyager needs to have its DCHP switched to on.

Yes, and the Safecom needs to have its DHCP server switched off.

> I need to make sure that the safecom "switch" and all the PCs do not have
> IP address that are allocated to the DCHP pool range on the voyager.

Yes, assuming "all the PCs" means "all the PCs with static IP
configuration".

> Would this be ok?
>
> IP address of Voyager 192.168.123.1
> DCHP pool range 192.168.123.100 to 192.168.123.150
>
> Safecom "switch" IP 192.168.123.60
> PC 1 192.168.123.65
> PC 2 192.168.123.70
> PC 3 192.168.123.75
> PC 4 192.168.123.80

Yes, assuming you use the same subnet mask (eg 255.255.255.0) throughout.

> I then turn DCHP on the safecom to off.

I would do that first, preferably from a machine with static IP
configuration. Then set the machine to use DHCP and connect it to the
Voyager so you can change the Voyager's LAN IP address. Finally, restore the
machine's static configuration and connect everything together.

> >From what I can remember there is a box in the safecom that asks me for
> the default gateway IP. As the Voyager is not connected to the Safecom
> via the WAN port, I dont think its going to autodetect.

The default gateway on the Safecom almost certainly applies to the WAN
interface which is not relevant. In which case you can ignore it.

> Also as I have manually supplied the IP address for all the PCs, tehre
> is a box for the default gateway.
>
> Would this be the IP address for the Voyager or Safecom.
> I am thinking of the Voyager, as Gateways FWIU are found between WANs
> and LANs

Yes, the default gateway should be the LAN IP address of the Voyager
(192.168.123.1 in the above).

> Also in the dialog box where you manually specify the IP addresses in
> windows XP there is a box that asks for
>
> 1) Primary DNS
> 2) Secondary DNS
>
> I guess I would need to manually specify it.

Yes.

> Also, If I set the IP address of all the PCs to automatic, DCHP on the
> safecom set of off, will the voyager give the DNS and automatically
> asign the IP addresses to all 4 PCs? Will it automatically work out
> what the defualt gateway is?

Yes, the router should (at least) provide an IP address, subner mask,
default gateway and DNS server(s) via DHCP.

In fact, if you want to use static configuration (eg because you need port
forwarding) I would temporarily use DHCP to find out what DNS configuration
is provided by the Voyager, and then use that in the static configuration.
(Usually it is either the address of the router or the ISP's DNS servers,
most often the former IME.)

Alex

On 15 Aug 2005 02:17:51 -0700, "Aosmosis" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>What is backward feeding?

putting an input into where an output was planned (feeding a WAN link
into a LAN port, ignoring the designed-in WAN port)

>1) As The Safecom wireless/wired router has 1 IP address and the
>Voyager another, the IP addresses must be of the same subnet.
>So it would be easier to change the IP address of the Voyager.
>The voyager needs to have its DCHP switched to on.

not if you're going to go round giving everything fixed IP addresses
as you suggest below, but you could use DHCP for unplanned arrivals on
the wireless.

>I need to make sure
>that the safecom "switch" and all the PCs do not have IP address that
>are allocated to the DCHP pool range on the voyager.
>
>Would this be ok?
>
>IP address of Voyager 192.168.123.1
>DCHP pool range 192.168.123.100 to 192.168.123.150
>
>Safecom "switch" IP 192.168.123.60
>PC 1 192.168.123.65
>PC 2 192.168.123.70
>PC 3 192.168.123.75
>PC 4 192.168.123.80
>
>
>I then turn DCHP on the safecom to off.
>>From what I can remember there is a box in the safecom that asks me for
>the default gateway IP. As the Voyager is not connected to the Safecom
>via the WAN port, I dont think its going to autodetect.
>Would the default gateway be the IP address of the Voyager ie
>192.168.123.1

that box is for the default gateway to be dished out by the DHCP
server I suspect, so it becomes redundant. Setting it to the Voyage
rmay be a precaution.

>Also as I have manually supplied the IP address for all the PCs, tehre
>is a box for the default gateway.
>Would this be the IP address for the Voyager or Safecom.
>I am thinking of the Voyager, as Gateways FWIU are found between WANs
>and LANs

the gateway has to be a router that is going to handle all non-local
LAN traffic, so you are correct it must be the Voyager.

>Also in the dialog box where you manually specify the IP addresses in
>windows XP there is a box that asks for
>1) Primary DNS
>2) Secondary DNS
>I guess I would need to manually specify it.

could set it to the Voyager, or to the ISP DNS servers.

>Also, If I set the IP address of all the PCs to automatic, DCHP on the
>safecom set of off, will the voyager give the DNS and automatically
>asign the IP addresses to all 4 PCs? Will it automatically work out
>what the defualt gateway is?

the Voyager *is* the default gateway and will dish out that
information to anything that asks for it.

Phil
--
Remember - Global Warming is only a weather forecast :-)