Connecting 2 Wifi Networks Via Cantenna

I live in the boondocks, so no cable. Neighbor has Satellite internet
and is willing to share. I am about 1/4 mile line of site. If I walk
1/2 way with laptop I get a connection. Was hoping to establich a
connection house to house using a cantenna. With that connection
established I need to then provide wireless coverage in my home for
multiple client PC's.

What does the cantenna connect to? A WAP or a router? Then how is the
wireless network re-created on my end?

I don't have much wireless experience but I'm an EE and software guy,
so a basic explaination of what hardware is required and best brands
would help a lot.

Thanks,

On 30 Apr 2007 11:05:10 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) wrote in
<(E-Mail Removed) .com>:

>I live in the boondocks, so no cable. Neighbor has Satellite internet
>and is willing to share. I am about 1/4 mile line of site. If I walk
>1/2 way with laptop I get a connection. Was hoping to establich a
>connection house to house using a cantenna. With that connection
>established I need to then provide wireless coverage in my home for
>multiple client PC's.
>
>What does the cantenna connect to? A WAP or a router? Then how is the
>wireless network re-created on my end?
>
>I don't have much wireless experience but I'm an EE and software guy,
>so a basic explaination of what hardware is required and best brands
>would help a lot.

You need:
1. Wireless Ethernet client bridge with high-gain directional antenna to
connect to your neighbor; connected by Ethernet cable to:
2. Wireless access point (or wireless router configured as an access
point as described in the How To wiki below) on a different primary
channel (1, 6, 11) with a different and unique SSID.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

What John said.

First question is if your neighbor's AP/router can have an external
directional antenna. Is he using it for wireless there or just as a
router? If he's not using wireless in his house, then connect a
cantenna or a panel antenna or a yagi via a short as possible low-loss
cable to that router. Point it towards you.

Next, whether you can get that directional antenna or have to stick
with the omni that came with his, you definitely want a directional
antenna on your end to connect with him using a wireless client
bridge

The Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 would be a good consumer level router that can
also function as a client. BestBuy or NewEgg will have them. They
are popular. The HP is preferred, for it's "high-power".

Again, be carefull about cable loss. It's critical. If possible, put
the client bridge close to or directly connected to the antenna. I
generally avoid antennas with their own cables unless they are short
and LMR200 or better. This calculator helps you decide the cable
part: http://www.timesmicrowave.com/cgi-bin/calculate.pl

>From there, run an ethernet cable to:
1) your pc and be done but not wireless in your house.
2) another router set up as an AP

Another option if wired is ok is to buy a USB adapter with external
antenna jack and put that same directional antenna on it. In this
case, it will only serve for one pc. http://pnt.zoovy.com/product/SUB-362EXT

To determine what gain you need for your antenna(s), read the wireless
wiki in John's signature and check out the link calculations for
standard operating margin, SOM. You should aim for 20db minimum of
signal to noise ratio. u

Cantennas may be great, but you can find hi gain antennas online for
just a little more. http://pnt.zoovy.com/c=vuiCGe6ygfLUy...gory/antennas/

Cheers,
Steve

An aside: Once you get hooked up, make sure you understand the FAP
policy with the Satellite connection. It is restrictive and can be
punishing if you are not careful with downloading.

The great thing is that with two of you, you can upgrade to a higher
service level without too much pain.

Steve

(E-Mail Removed) hath wroth:

>I live in the boondocks, so no cable. Neighbor has Satellite internet
>and is willing to share.

See comments by John and Seaweed for what you need. However, be
prepared for a problem. My guess is that the satellite is either
HughesNet (Direcway) or Wild Blue service. Both have severe
limitations on use called FAP (fair access policy). I know of several
small groups that are sharing a satellite connection. It takes
considerable communal effort and some yelling to make it usable. There
are also some service limitations. VoIP is half duplex with about a 2
second delay. It works but takes practice learning to say "over" at
the end of each "transmission". Uploads are incredibly slow. VPN's
are a lost cause. I suggest you try the neighbors satellite system
before you spend much time and money.

Also, there are often better ways to do this than wireless. If you
can run cable across the 1/4 mile between houses, methinks it's better
to run fiber, coax, and twisted pair, than to rely on wireless.
Wireless is fine, but is subject to interference problems. If you
have a bunch of nearby Wi-Fi networks, this may be a problem. Details
of various methods on request.


--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Thanks for all the tips folks. I may actually get my own dish, but I
have several other projects brewing that require the same type of
setup including a robo mower to cut the 6 acres that I currently mow.
I'd like to be able to use winsock for control and monitoring as well
as a DGPS setup. In addition I have city rental properties that are
subject to frequent vandalism. If I can get a sat or cable connection
at one site and beam wifi around to the other sites using directional
antennas I can use it for monitored alarm systems and surveilance
cameras. This one is probably going to be more challenging than it is
worth, due to obstructed line of site issues. But maybe not completely
as I have a few properties that are near each other. Just the same I'm
considering alternatives such as trac phones or cell family plans.
These systems will only have to send a heartbeat (I'm still here) for
monitoring and then data in the infrequent (hopefully) alarm event.

I'll be reading the FAQ's and may have more questions.

Thanks again!!

On 1 May 2007 08:09:00 -0700, seaweedsteve <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Another option if wired is ok is to buy a USB adapter with external
>antenna jack and put that same directional antenna on it. In this
>case, it will only serve for one pc. http://pnt.zoovy.com/product/SUB-362EXT
>
>To determine what gain you need for your antenna(s), read the wireless
>wiki in John's signature and check out the link calculations for
>standard operating margin, SOM. You should aim for 20db minimum of
>signal to noise ratio. u
>
>Cantennas may be great, but you can find hi gain antennas online for
>just a little more. http://pnt.zoovy.com/c=vuiCGe6ygfLUy...gory/antennas/

Good advice and good products. I use them on my boat with good
results, sometimes over 3 miles.

On May 1, 11:32 am, Jeff Liebermann <j...@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us>
wrote:

>..... be prepared for a problem. My guess is that the satellite is either
> HughesNet (Direcway) or Wild Blue service. Both have severe
> limitations on use called FAP (fair access policy). I know of several
> small groups that are sharing a satellite connection. It takes
> considerable communal effort and some yelling to make it usable.



The trick here, if it's Hughes is to combine your resources to get a
business-level plan. This actually makes it better to share a
dish. For example, 1 person on the Hughes Home plan gets, supposedly
200 MB a...um, let's say day, at "up to" 700 Kbps and 50 kbps recovery
for $70 a month. Upgrading to the Small-Business plan, for $100 a
month you can have more than double all those numbers for $50 each.

And it's better than that, because to the degree that you don't
overlap in usage, each of you can enjoy the full bandwidth to
yourselves at times. Especially if you coordinate/cooperate. We have
8 people (obviously not power users at all) sharing that $100
account. We may add two more and move to the $200 account, but that's
still cheap !

>From my experience, the secret to making Sat internet work is to gang
up and share a bigger account/fatter pipe. It's like the difference
between running one 2" water pipe to your neighborhood to service 20
houses vs running 20 1/2" pipes. Which is more efficient? Which
gives better pressure/flow?

Still won't help for VoIP or VPN no matter what account you have.

Note: FAP for Hughes net is extremely complex and had just changed
this month. Also, they are not disclosing any real numbers. Look to
the sat forum for more info. http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...s?lnk=li&hl=en

Still Hughes is probably the best of the consumer level systems.

Steve

>From my experience, the secret to making Sat internet work is to gang


I don't know why I keep getting those arrows > > inserted in the
middle of my messages. Makes it hard to sort out who is saying what.

Steve

seaweedsteve <(E-Mail Removed)> hath wroth:

>From my experience, the secret to making Sat internet work is to gang
>up and share a bigger account/fatter pipe. It's like the difference
>between running one 2" water pipe to your neighborhood to service 20
>houses vs running 20 1/2" pipes. Which is more efficient? Which
>gives better pressure/flow?

If you include wall drag (Bernoulli's equation), then the plumbing
system with the smallest wall area gives less pressure loss:
<http://www.efunda.com/formulae/fluids/calc_pipe_friction.cfm>
This assumes incompressible fluid flow, which isn't a very good
analogy for typical web data traffic.

I sorta help with 3 different systems that share a satellite link. All
are HughesNet (DirecWay). The planned Wild Blue system fell through.
The problem is that all 3 of these have DSL or cable available within
wire or wireless range. However, they all have also successfully
precipitated a war with the neighbors making a wired or wireless link
somewhat problematic. I've been elected official diplomat and am
trying to negotiate a peacful compromise that will allow them to
obtain a terrestial alternative. However, no sooner do I obtain some
sort of verbal agreement, someone always manages to restart the
battle. I'm scheduled for yet another non-billable endless debate
this weekend. Sigh.

I've suggested getting wider bandwidth connections. One of these has
just done that. I haven't seen the results. The others are still
waiting for me to "somehow" provide them with a terrestial solution
and therefore don't want to invest in a 1 year HughesNet commitment.

>Still won't help for VoIP or VPN no matter what account you have.

Yep. Physics can only be overcome by politics.

>Note: FAP for Hughes net is extremely complex and had just changed
>this month. Also, they are not disclosing any real numbers. Look to
>the sat forum for more info. http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...s?lnk=li&hl=en

Ouch. I hadn't noticed. Kinda reminds me of trying to come up with
the ultimate fair equitable and manageable ISP billing system. Little
wonder the industry has almost universally gone to flat rate. It's
really difficult to be fair and equitable.

>Still Hughes is probably the best of the consumer level systems.


--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558