Configuring a pair of asus rt-n12 routers. Pls. help

Hi!

1st. of all sorry for the big post but I think this should be enough
simple and clear for experts :-)

I have a netgear cable modem/router configured for 192.168.1.0 network.
Addresses 192.168.1.70-79 are reserved for dhcp. 192.168.1.1 is the gateway.

I bougth 2 rt-n12: one to serve as a router (AP?) and the other as a
repeater.

I could not understand what is the difference between AP and router. So,
I configured the 1st router as AP because there are too much fields to
fill if I chose the router mode. I also set up the trivial wpa-2 AES
wireless. Changed the entry address (browser access) from 192.168.1.1 to
192.168.1.2 - This one was unused.

Everything went fine so far. All PCs see and work with this new
roouter/AP. The problem came withe the second router set as repeater:

There, it is supposed to choose a SSID from a list, insert its pass
phrase (wpa-2 AES) and the router should be repeating it. There is also
the possibility of choosing a LAN ip address (defaults to 192.168.1.1) -
this is also the entry addresse for the browser access - or choose DHCP.
If I change the address, I can also specify a gateway - Whenever I
choosed this, I used 192.168.1.1 here. I cannot understand the role of
this except as the address for the browser.

Having said this let's see what happens:

When I choose my SSID from the presented list *imediatelly after the
router-repeater being reset*, it "loops" a big while saying it is
connecting. Then it stops with the message "RT-N12 failed to
automatically obtaining a new IP address from DHCP server. Please try
again.". After this, choosing any SSID or the same again, I got
imediatelly "Connection failed. The network you are trying to connect to
may not exist. Please select another network to connect to."
After this I need to reset to factory defaults to change this behaviour!

I already played with the LAN IP thing changing its address. No success.

Thanks for any comments/help.

On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 23:15:25 +0100, Paulo da Silva
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Hi!
>
>1st. of all sorry for the big post but I think this should be enough
>simple and clear for experts :-)
>
>I have a netgear cable modem/router configured for 192.168.1.0 network.
>Addresses 192.168.1.70-79 are reserved for dhcp. 192.168.1.1 is the gateway.

Model number would be nice.

>I bougth 2 rt-n12: one to serve as a router (AP?) and the other as a
>repeater.

What problems were you trying to solve?

>I could not understand what is the difference between AP and router.

Start here:
Wireless Router: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_router>
Wireless Access Point: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Access_point>

>I configured the 1st router as AP because there are too much fields to
>fill if I chose the router mode.

Heh, the usual approach is to use the mode that meets your needs, not
the mode that's easier to configure. See above, what problems are
you trying to solve? That will dictate how the equipment should be
configured.

>I also set up the trivial wpa-2 AES
>wireless. Changed the entry address (browser access) from 192.168.1.1 to
>192.168.1.2 - This one was unused.

So far, so good.

>Everything went fine so far. All PCs see and work with this new
>roouter/AP. The problem came withe the second router set as repeater:

Do you really need a repeater? Wireless throughput will be cut in
half, or less.

>There, it is supposed to choose a SSID from a list, insert its pass
>phrase (wpa-2 AES) and the router should be repeating it. There is also
>the possibility of choosing a LAN ip address (defaults to 192.168.1.1) -
>this is also the entry addresse for the browser access - or choose DHCP.
>If I change the address, I can also specify a gateway - Whenever I
>choosed this, I used 192.168.1.1 here. I cannot understand the role of
>this except as the address for the browser.

192.168.1.1 is already being used by your Netgear modem/router, so
you'll either want to use DHCP here or manually configure an IP
address that's not already being used and does not fall within the
DHCP scope. 192.168.1.3 should be fine, with a Netmask of
255.255.255.0 and a Gateway of 192.168.1.1.

Em 21-04-2011 03:15, Char Jackson escreveu:
> On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 23:15:25 +0100, Paulo da Silva
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
....

>>
>> I have a netgear cable modem/router configured for 192.168.1.0 network.
>> Addresses 192.168.1.70-79 are reserved for dhcp. 192.168.1.1 is the gateway.
>
> Model number would be nice.
This is a customized model for my ISP.

>
>> I bougth 2 rt-n12: one to serve as a router (AP?) and the other as a
>> repeater.
>
> What problems were you trying to solve?
Increasing the distance and quality.

>
>> I could not understand what is the difference between AP and router.
After playing with configurations I could see the difference.
....

>
>> I configured the 1st router as AP because there are too much fields to
>> fill if I chose the router mode.
>
> Heh, the usual approach is to use the mode that meets your needs, not
> the mode that's easier to configure. See above, what problems are
> you trying to solve? That will dictate how the equipment should be
> configured.
After understanding these concepts I still prefer, at least by now, the
AP. To have a permenent configuration as router I need to change lots of
things including all PCs firewalls and hosts permissions and names. I am
using local fix IP addresses.
I did an ad hoc configuration using only one PC and got all the same
symptoms! So the problem is not here.

....
>
> Do you really need a repeater? Wireless throughput will be cut in
> half, or less.

I only have cable on one side of the house and the signal does not reach
the other end using the netgear. With rt-n12, it seems better but I need
more tests. It depends on how many people is using wireless around on
the same channel and perhaps on the weather.
So, a repeater seems a good solution.

>
>> There, it is supposed to choose a SSID from a list, insert its pass
>> phrase (wpa-2 AES) and the router should be repeating it. There is also
>> the possibility of choosing a LAN ip address (defaults to 192.168.1.1) -
>> this is also the entry addresse for the browser access - or choose DHCP.
>> If I change the address, I can also specify a gateway - Whenever I
>> choosed this, I used 192.168.1.1 here. I cannot understand the role of
>> this except as the address for the browser.
>
> 192.168.1.1 is already being used by your Netgear modem/router, so
> you'll either want to use DHCP here or manually configure an IP
> address that's not already being used and does not fall within the
> DHCP scope. 192.168.1.3 should be fine, with a Netmask of
> 255.255.255.0 and a Gateway of 192.168.1.1.
>
I tried that - fix and dhcp. No luck.

I am almost sure that the second message
"Connection failed. The network you are trying to connect to
may not exist. Please select another network to connect to."
is a bug. I need to restore to factory defaults to get rid of this
message. May be there is another way but I could not find it.

But what is the meaning of
"RT-N12 failed to automatically obtaining a new IP address from DHCP
server. Please try again." ?

It is possible to obtain a dhcp address both from the netgear and the
RT-N12 (when configured as router). I checked it using eth0 and wlan0
connections!

Thanks

On Thu, 21 Apr 2011 06:33:54 +0100, Paulo da Silva
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Em 21-04-2011 03:15, Char Jackson escreveu:
>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 23:15:25 +0100, Paulo da Silva
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>...
>
>>>
>>> I have a netgear cable modem/router configured for 192.168.1.0 network.
>>> Addresses 192.168.1.70-79 are reserved for dhcp. 192.168.1.1 is the gateway.
>>
>> Model number would be nice.
>This is a customized model for my ISP.
>
>>
>>> I bougth 2 rt-n12: one to serve as a router (AP?) and the other as a
>>> repeater.
>>
>> What problems were you trying to solve?
>Increasing the distance and quality.

First, I don't understand why you bought two units, and second, is
there a reason why you're not using powerline networking rather than
trying to get a repeater to work? If powerline is an option there,
it'll almost certainly be much faster and way more reliable,
especially the newer stuff.


>>> I could not understand what is the difference between AP and router.
>After playing with configurations I could see the difference.
>...
>
>>
>>> I configured the 1st router as AP because there are too much fields to
>>> fill if I chose the router mode.
>>
>> Heh, the usual approach is to use the mode that meets your needs, not
>> the mode that's easier to configure. See above, what problems are
>> you trying to solve? That will dictate how the equipment should be
>> configured.
>After understanding these concepts I still prefer, at least by now, the
>AP. To have a permenent configuration as router I need to change lots of
>things including all PCs firewalls and hosts permissions and names. I am
>using local fix IP addresses.

Not to mention that a second router piggybacked onto the first router
will mean two separate subnets and all of the fun that goes with that.


>I did an ad hoc configuration using only one PC and got all the same
>symptoms! So the problem is not here.

What problem? What symptoms? Ad hoc is PC to PC, so how do you do ad
hoc with a single PC?


>> Do you really need a repeater? Wireless throughput will be cut in
>> half, or less.
>
>I only have cable on one side of the house and the signal does not reach
>the other end using the netgear. With rt-n12, it seems better but I need
>more tests. It depends on how many people is using wireless around on
>the same channel and perhaps on the weather.
>So, a repeater seems a good solution.

I think you'll find that a repeater is almost always the worst choice.
Only choose it if everything else has been considered and rejected.


>>> There, it is supposed to choose a SSID from a list, insert its pass
>>> phrase (wpa-2 AES) and the router should be repeating it. There is also
>>> the possibility of choosing a LAN ip address (defaults to 192.168.1.1) -
>>> this is also the entry addresse for the browser access - or choose DHCP.
>>> If I change the address, I can also specify a gateway - Whenever I
>>> choosed this, I used 192.168.1.1 here. I cannot understand the role of
>>> this except as the address for the browser.
>>
>> 192.168.1.1 is already being used by your Netgear modem/router, so
>> you'll either want to use DHCP here or manually configure an IP
>> address that's not already being used and does not fall within the
>> DHCP scope. 192.168.1.3 should be fine, with a Netmask of
>> 255.255.255.0 and a Gateway of 192.168.1.1.
>>
>I tried that - fix and dhcp. No luck.

You might have to move closer to your Netgear router, depending on
what you mean by 'no luck'.


>I am almost sure that the second message
>"Connection failed. The network you are trying to connect to
>may not exist. Please select another network to connect to."
>is a bug. I need to restore to factory defaults to get rid of this
>message. May be there is another way but I could not find it.

When in doubt about your settings, restoring defaults is usually a
good option. Not sure why you think the message you're getting is a
bug. It sounds valid to me. Try moving closer to your router and make
sure it's really your router that you're trying to connect to. If you
haven't changed the SSID away from its default, you probably should.


>But what is the meaning of
>"RT-N12 failed to automatically obtaining a new IP address from DHCP
>server. Please try again." ?

Pretty self-explanatory. The unit wasn't able to communicate with the
DHCP server in your Netgear router. Since that's the case, static
assignment of IP, netmask, and gateway will also fail since either way
it needs to be able to communicate with the Netgear.
Move the Asus closer to the Netgear router and make sure you're really
trying to connect to your own Netgear router rather than a neighbor's.


>It is possible to obtain a dhcp address both from the netgear and the
>RT-N12 (when configured as router). I checked it using eth0 and wlan0
>connections!

Hopefully you'll only enable one DHCP server per subnet or things can
get wacky in a hurry. It's probably best to leave DHCP enabled in the
Netgear and disable it in the Asus units. Then again, you said that
everything has static IP assignments so perhaps you don't need DHCP at
all.

If it were me, I would try a pair of powerline network adapters. The
Netgear router would be cabled to one of the adapters and the second
adapter at the far end of the house would be cabled to a single Access
Point.

Em 21-04-2011 10:52, Char Jackson escreveu:
> On Thu, 21 Apr 2011 06:33:54 +0100, Paulo da Silva
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Em 21-04-2011 03:15, Char Jackson escreveu:
>>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 23:15:25 +0100, Paulo da Silva
>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
....

>>>
>>> What problems were you trying to solve?
>> Increasing the distance and quality.
>
> First, I don't understand why you bought two units, and second,
There are several reasons I don't want to mention here.
> is
> there a reason why you're not using powerline networking rather than
> trying to get a repeater to work? If powerline is an option there,
> it'll almost certainly be much faster and way more reliable,
> especially the newer stuff.
I didn't know they already exist :-(
I searched for wireless solutions and power lines are not wireless.
Thank you very much to make me aware of them. Anyway I already bought
the routers.

BTW, do these powerline adapters work when plugged to different AC
phases? Any need for phase bridges? I also saw some examples needing
windows. I use linux here.

>
....

>
>> I did an ad hoc configuration using only one PC and got all the same
>> symptoms! So the problem is not here.
>
> What problem? What symptoms? Ad hoc is PC to PC, so how do you do ad
> hoc with a single PC?
Sorry. I used the "ad hoc" term in common language sense, i.e. "for the
strict purpose". So what I did was to setup a temporary configuration
with two subnets using a PC and a RT-N12 configured as a router to make
some experiments.

....
>
> You might have to move closer to your Netgear router, depending on
> what you mean by 'no luck'.

All tests were made less from 2m from the netgear/RT-N12 pair.

>
>
>> I am almost sure that the second message
>> "Connection failed. The network you are trying to connect to
>> may not exist. Please select another network to connect to."
>> is a bug. I need to restore to factory defaults to get rid of this
>> message. May be there is another way but I could not find it.
>
> When in doubt about your settings, restoring defaults is usually a
> good option. Not sure why you think the message you're getting is a
> bug. It sounds valid to me. Try moving closer to your router and make
> sure it's really your router that you're trying to connect to. If you
> haven't changed the SSID away from its default, you probably should.
>
>
>> But what is the meaning of
>> "RT-N12 failed to automatically obtaining a new IP address from DHCP
>> server. Please try again." ?
>
> Pretty self-explanatory. The unit wasn't able to communicate with the
> DHCP server in your Netgear router. Since that's the case, static
> assignment of IP, netmask, and gateway will also fail since either way
> it needs to be able to communicate with the Netgear.
> Move the Asus closer to the Netgear router and make sure you're really
> trying to connect to your own Netgear router rather than a neighbor's.
As I said I am less than 2m from the router.
The signal the "repeater" shows is at its maximum level.
Here is what happens:

1. I reset the router.
2. Set it as a repeater (there is a switch for that).
3. Connect my browser.
4. Choose some IP+gateway or try DHCP. I played with these things a lot.
5. Then I click on a button to choose the SSID to repeat.
6. A list of SSIDs shows up. My routers SSID has the max. signal. I
choose it.
7. I was asked for the routers pass phrase. After inserting it, I got
two behaviours:
a) If coming from a repeater reset, it "loops" a big while saying it is
connecting. Then it stops with the message "RT-N12 failed to
automatically obtaining a new IP address from DHCP server. Please try
again."
b) After a), every time I insert the pass phrase (point 7) I imediatelly
get the message
"Connection failed. The network you are trying to connect to
may not exist. Please select another network to connect to."

That's why I thing this is a bug.

On Thu, 21 Apr 2011 16:26:48 +0100, Paulo da Silva
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Em 21-04-2011 10:52, Char Jackson escreveu:
>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2011 06:33:54 +0100, Paulo da Silva
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>> Em 21-04-2011 03:15, Char Jackson escreveu:
>>>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 23:15:25 +0100, Paulo da Silva
>>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>...
>
>>>>
>>>> What problems were you trying to solve?
>>> Increasing the distance and quality.
>>
>> First, I don't understand why you bought two units, and second,
>There are several reasons I don't want to mention here.
>> is
>> there a reason why you're not using powerline networking rather than
>> trying to get a repeater to work? If powerline is an option there,
>> it'll almost certainly be much faster and way more reliable,
>> especially the newer stuff.
>I didn't know they already exist :-(
>I searched for wireless solutions and power lines are not wireless.
>Thank you very much to make me aware of them. Anyway I already bought
>the routers.
>
>BTW, do these powerline adapters work when plugged to different AC
>phases? Any need for phase bridges? I also saw some examples needing
>windows. I use linux here.

I'm successfully using some Netgear powerline adapters here. I can't
answer your question about different phases, but I can confirm that
they came with a Windows utility you can use to set or reset a
security code, among other things. I didn't do any of that; I simply
plugged them in and began using them.


>As I said I am less than 2m from the router.
>The signal the "repeater" shows is at its maximum level.

Hmm, using a repeater less than 2m from its source AP isn't going to
work well and may not even work at all. There's nothing ideal about
using a repeater, but ideally the repeater will be physically located
where it has good communication with the source AP, your Netgear in
this case, and where the target PC's can communicate with the repeater
but they can't hear the source AP. If the target PCs can see both the
source AP and the repeater, things get messy from an RF perspective.
Best case, throughput will be in the weeds, but worst case there will
be no throughput at all.


>Here is what happens:
>
>1. I reset the router.
>2. Set it as a repeater (there is a switch for that).
>3. Connect my browser.

Your PC is connected to the repeater with an Ethernet cable, I hope.
Whenever possible, always configure network elements with a wired
connection.


>4. Choose some IP+gateway or try DHCP. I played with these things a lot.
>5. Then I click on a button to choose the SSID to repeat.
>6. A list of SSIDs shows up. My routers SSID has the max. signal. I
>choose it.
>7. I was asked for the routers pass phrase. After inserting it, I got
>two behaviours:
>a) If coming from a repeater reset, it "loops" a big while saying it is
>connecting. Then it stops with the message "RT-N12 failed to
>automatically obtaining a new IP address from DHCP server. Please try
>again."
>b) After a), every time I insert the pass phrase (point 7) I imediatelly
>get the message
>"Connection failed. The network you are trying to connect to
>may not exist. Please select another network to connect to."
>
>That's why I thing this is a bug.

Try it after disabling the wireless security on your Netgear. If it
works, you know it's a security issue.

If at all possible, you should consider running an Ethernet cable
between your Netgear router and your Asus unit so that the Asus can be
configured as an Access Point rather than a repeater. Setup is easier,
and day to day performance will be much better (faster, more reliable,
etc.). If it's not practical to run Ethernet cable, it may not be too
late to try powerline networking to get the AP where you need it.
There's even such a thing as Ethernet over coax, in case that's a
better fit for you. Basically, almost anything is better than a
repeater.

By the way, this is kind of turning into a wireless discussion so you
might consider posting to alt.internet.wireless. There are some great
people over there who know wireless inside and out.

Em 21-04-2011 21:15, Char Jackson escreveu:
> On Thu, 21 Apr 2011 16:26:48 +0100, Paulo da Silva
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
....

>>
>> BTW, do these powerline adapters work when plugged to different AC
>> phases? Any need for phase bridges? I also saw some examples needing
>> windows. I use linux here.
>
> I'm successfully using some Netgear powerline adapters here. I can't
> answer your question about different phases, but I can confirm that
> they came with a Windows utility you can use to set or reset a
> security code, among other things. I didn't do any of that; I simply
> plugged them in and began using them.
And is there any encryption by default?
>
>
>> As I said I am less than 2m from the router.
>> The signal the "repeater" shows is at its maximum level.
>
> Hmm, using a repeater less than 2m from its source AP isn't going to
> work well and may not even work at all.
It is not to be used there! It's just for the first connection.
There is a utility that makes the 1st connection just to configure it.
Then it will be moved to another place in the middle of the house.
It's in the manual ...
....
>
>> Here is what happens:
>>
>> 1. I reset the router.
>> 2. Set it as a repeater (there is a switch for that).
>> 3. Connect my browser.
>
> Your PC is connected to the repeater with an Ethernet cable, I hope.
Yes.
....

>
> By the way, this is kind of turning into a wireless discussion so you
> might consider posting to alt.internet.wireless. There are some great
> people over there who know wireless inside and out.
>
Thanks for the tip.

I think the router is broken. I contacted the co that sold me these
routers and they confirmed this could be a hw problem. I'll send it to
them so they can test it themselves.

Thanks a lot for your answers.
Regards.
Paulo

On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 02:08:08 +0100, Paulo da Silva
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Em 21-04-2011 21:15, Char Jackson escreveu:
>>
>> I'm successfully using some Netgear powerline adapters here. I can't
>> answer your question about different phases, but I can confirm that
>> they came with a Windows utility you can use to set or reset a
>> security code, among other things. I didn't do any of that; I simply
>> plugged them in and began using them.
>And is there any encryption by default?

I'm not sure, but I don't think so. It's not needed here at my place,
but to enable or change the encryption you simply push a button on one
adapter, then within 2 minutes you go push the same button on the
second adapter. The two adapters find each other and negotiate a new
encryption key. No need for any PC (Linux, Windows, whatever).


>There is a utility that makes the 1st connection just to configure it.
>Then it will be moved to another place in the middle of the house.
>It's in the manual ...

I always frown at the use of those automated utilities, greatly
preferring to do the setup manually so I know what's going on.


>I think the router is broken. I contacted the co that sold me these
>routers and they confirmed this could be a hw problem. I'll send it to
>them so they can test it themselves.
>
>Thanks a lot for your answers.

Sure thing. Good luck with everything!