Communicating directly with a Wireless LAN Card

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Dear All,
Does anyone know if it is possible to communicate directly with a
Wireless LAN card in Windows or Linux? The reason I ask this is because
whenever I go out with either my PDA or Laptop, I notice that the channels
keep going from 1-14 randomly. Also, sometimes it will stay on one channel
(for example, stay on channel 5) but it will not connect to an AP. I am
curious as to what the WLAN card is picking up and possibly view that data,
whatever it may be. Thank you very much in advance for your time and
consideration in this matter.
Sincerely,
Christopher Koeber




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On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 03:17:33 -0400, "Christopher Kurtis Koeber"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

[att.wireless deleted from distribution]

>Does anyone know if it is possible to communicate directly with a
>Wireless LAN card in Windows or Linux?

With the proper psychic medium, it would even be possible to
communicate directly with the dead.

>The reason I ask this is because
>whenever I go out with either my PDA or Laptop, I notice that the channels
>keep going from 1-14 randomly. Also, sometimes it will stay on one channel
>(for example, stay on channel 5) but it will not connect to an AP.

Sounds like Windoze XP. Windoze will scan the channels until it finds
an SSID, any SSID. If you haven't specified a "preferred access
point" it will continue to scan for the best signal, even if it has
already found an access point. This is normal and desireable behavior
if you have a roaming situation (skool, metro wlan, airport, hotel)
where the provider has deployed multiple radios with the same SSID in
an area. Your laptop will always select the *best* access point to
use. When you're not doing anything on the channel, it will scan for
a better access point.

>I am
>curious as to what the WLAN card is picking up and possibly view that data,
>whatever it may be. Thank you very much in advance for your time and
>consideration in this matter.

Are you suggesting that Microsoft actually provide troubleshooting,
monitoring, and diagnostic information? Surely you jest. MS is
committed to Wireless Zero Configuration, which actually means "we are
in control. You don't have to know what's happening. Trust us". If
you want diagnostics, you'll need to disarm WZC, and use some utility
provided by the manufactory of your card or PDA. The problem is that
the behaviour will change and you won't get to see WZC doing its
thing. Even Linux has this problem. If you fire up a diagnostic, the
diagnostic will affect the sequence of operation.

Methinks you would be better served by doing a "site survey" or sniff
of the area to see what your laptop or pda are hearing. Netstumbler
for Windoze and Kismet for Linux are the most popular. Make a
wireless "map" of the area, which should give you a clue as to what
it's hearing.


--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

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"Jeff Liebermann" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 03:17:33 -0400, "Christopher Kurtis Koeber"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> [att.wireless deleted from distribution]
>
>>Does anyone know if it is possible to communicate directly with a
>>Wireless LAN card in Windows or Linux?
>
> With the proper psychic medium, it would even be possible to
> communicate directly with the dead.

Cool, let's get cracking!!!

>
>>The reason I ask this is because
>>whenever I go out with either my PDA or Laptop, I notice that the channels
>>keep going from 1-14 randomly. Also, sometimes it will stay on one channel
>>(for example, stay on channel 5) but it will not connect to an AP.
>
> Sounds like Windoze XP. Windoze will scan the channels until it finds
> an SSID, any SSID. If you haven't specified a "preferred access
> point" it will continue to scan for the best signal, even if it has
> already found an access point. This is normal and desireable behavior
> if you have a roaming situation (skool, metro wlan, airport, hotel)
> where the provider has deployed multiple radios with the same SSID in
> an area. Your laptop will always select the *best* access point to
> use. When you're not doing anything on the channel, it will scan for
> a better access point.

But what about when it locks on a single channel, yet doesn't connect? It
has to be looking at something, right?

>
>>I am
>>curious as to what the WLAN card is picking up and possibly view that
>>data,
>>whatever it may be. Thank you very much in advance for your time and
>>consideration in this matter.
>
> Are you suggesting that Microsoft actually provide troubleshooting,
> monitoring, and diagnostic information? Surely you jest. MS is
> committed to Wireless Zero Configuration, which actually means "we are
> in control. You don't have to know what's happening. Trust us". If
> you want diagnostics, you'll need to disarm WZC, and use some utility
> provided by the manufactory of your card or PDA. The problem is that
> the behaviour will change and you won't get to see WZC doing its
> thing. Even Linux has this problem. If you fire up a diagnostic, the
> diagnostic will affect the sequence of operation.
>
> Methinks you would be better served by doing a "site survey" or sniff
> of the area to see what your laptop or pda are hearing. Netstumbler
> for Windoze and Kismet for Linux are the most popular. Make a
> wireless "map" of the area, which should give you a clue as to what
> it's hearing.

Thanks for the program, I am trying it out and it seems pretty cool.
What will be even better for people deploying wireless networks in my
opinion is if they can see the raw data that is being sent and received over
the wireless card. This can be better since you can see exactly what is
interfering your signals.

Any comments or ways to view this data?

>
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558




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On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:28:15 -0400, "Christopher Kurtis Koeber"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>But what about when it locks on a single channel, yet doesn't connect? It
>has to be looking at something, right?

It has to be done in stages. My guess(probably wrong) is that it's
something like:
1. Hears data. Scanning stops.
2. Decodes management frames looking for SSID.
3. Switches speed from 1Mbit/sec to perhaps 11Mbits/sec.
4. Listens for valid data (if any).
5. If data received, determine encyption method and try WEP/WPA.
6. If decrypted, try 802.1x and RADIUS authentication.
7. If successfully authenticated, display SSID and associate.
8. If not successful, resume scanning.

Each one of the steps above involves a timeout. Switching from
802.11g to 802.11b and back again may take a full 60 seconds. My
guess is the other steps are much less, but the total might be perhaps
another minute.

>Thanks for the program, I am trying it out and it seems pretty cool.
>What will be even better for people deploying wireless networks in my
>opinion is if they can see the raw data that is being sent and received over
>the wireless card. This can be better since you can see exactly what is
>interfering your signals.
>
>Any comments or ways to view this data?

Yes but there's a problem. 802.11a/b/g is nothing more than
encapsulated 802.3 ethernet packets. Programs such as Ethereal will
docode them into readable form. The problem is that Windoze has no
standard way of putting your wireless card into promiscuous mode.
There is a method using the drivers from WildPacket's Airopeek demo
program to do the trick, but that's far from ethically correct. With
Linux, it's much easier, as promiscuous mode is supported by almost
every LAN driver.

What you'll see in the clear are all the management frames, containing
s/n radio, signal strength, SSID, MAC addresses, and basically the
stuff in the 802.3 ethernet header. The IP layer payload will be
encrypted.


--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558