Church Wireless network implementation.

I am in the process of implementing a wireless network at my church.
Being this it is a fairly large area that needs to be covered. This
network requires about 3+ wireless-g routers that are evenly spaced
through out the area (2 buildings). There is 1 DSL internet
connection. All routers need to talk to each other in some fashion.

How would this be accomplished?

My concern is if the wireless routers talk to each other wirelessly
there could be a significant decrease in performance. I'm not sure if
this will be important though.

What type of router or specific features of a router should I pay
attention to.

What routers are build so that don't crash or lose connection with the
master internet line. My cheap netgear and belkin routers ($40) do
this every so often with my cable connection.

Most important is stability and reliability.

On 15 Feb 2007 17:32:08 -0800, "(E-Mail Removed)" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote in <(E-Mail Removed) .com>:

>I am in the process of implementing a wireless network at my church.

God help you!

>Being this it is a fairly large area that needs to be covered. This
>network requires about 3+ wireless-g routers that are evenly spaced
>through out the area (2 buildings). There is 1 DSL internet
>connection. All routers need to talk to each other in some fashion.
>
>How would this be accomplished?

Preferably by cable, Ethernet, powerline network, phone line network, or
coax.

>My concern is if the wireless routers talk to each other wirelessly
>there could be a significant decrease in performance. I'm not sure if
>this will be important though.

You are correct. Each repeater cuts network speed in half, and you
probably have a big enough area that speed will be much less than the
maximum even without repeaters. But much depends on how many
simultaneous clients you will be serving and what they will be doing.

>What type of router or specific features of a router should I pay
>attention to.

Security.
Quality of Service.
Stability.
Reliability.
Ease of management.

>What routers are build so that don't crash or lose connection with the
>master internet line. My cheap netgear and belkin routers ($40) do
>this every so often with my cable connection.
>
>Most important is stability and reliability.

Agreed. So use enterprise grade gear (e.g., Cisco).

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

John Navas wrote:
> God help you!

And use a WPA key, not a church key.

On Feb 15, 8:40 pm, John Navas <spamfilt...@navasgroup.com> wrote:
> On 15 Feb 2007 17:32:08 -0800, "jerem...@gmail.com" <jerem...@gmail.com>
> wrote in <1171589528.689406.151...@s48g2000cws.googlegroups .com>:
>
> >I am in the process of implementing a wireless network at my church.
>
> God help you!
>
> >Being this it is a fairly large area that needs to be covered. This
> >network requires about 3+ wireless-g routers that are evenly spaced
> >through out the area (2 buildings). There is 1 DSL internet
> >connection. All routers need to talk to each other in some fashion.
>
> >How would this be accomplished?
>
> Preferably by cable, Ethernet, powerline network, phone line network, or
> coax.
>
> >My concern is if the wireless routers talk to each other wirelessly
> >there could be a significant decrease in performance. I'm not sure if
> >this will be important though.
>
> You are correct. Each repeater cuts network speed in half, and you
> probably have a big enough area that speed will be much less than the
> maximum even without repeaters. But much depends on how many
> simultaneous clients you will be serving and what they will be doing.
>
> >What type of router or specific features of a router should I pay
> >attention to.
>
> Security.
> Quality of Service.
> Stability.
> Reliability.
> Ease of management.
>
> >What routers are build so that don't crash or lose connection with the
> >master internet line. My cheap netgear and belkin routers ($40) do
> >this every so often with my cable connection.
>
> >Most important is stability and reliability.
>
> Agreed. So use enterprise grade gear (e.g., Cisco).
>
> --
> Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
> John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
> Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
> Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

You didn't really answer the question. What's the most optimal
solution?

On 15 Feb 2007 17:32:08 -0800, "(E-Mail Removed)"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I am in the process of implementing a wireless network at my church.

I'm curious. Why? Do you expect parishioners to bring laptops during
services?

(Drivel: The local temple once asked me about cell phone jammers for
preventing cell phones from interrupting the services. About 6 months
later, someone else from the temple asked me about cell phone
repeaters to improve cellular coverage inside the building.)

>Being this it is a fairly large area that needs to be covered.

What's that in square feet? Inside topography is very important. If
there are large obstruction inside the "large area", there may be
coverage problems.

>This
>network requires about 3+ wireless-g routers that are evenly spaced
>through out the area (2 buildings).

OK, Does 3+ equal 4 access points? Access points are fairly cheap.
You can put 3 in each "airspace" on channels 1, 6, and 11 before you
get into overlapping channels. Might as well go for the maximum.

>There is 1 DSL internet
>connection.

At what speed? DSL comes from everything from 384/384 kbits/sec to
about 6000/512 kbits/sec. I'm curious as to how many simultaneous
users you expect to have using the system.

>All routers need to talk to each other in some fashion.

Lots of ways to do that. I suggest you forget about repeaters and WDS
bridges between buildings. I can explain why if you really want. Plan
on running some CAT5 cable from each access point to some central
ethernet router.

>How would this be accomplished?

Find pipe. Push a wire snake through the pipe. Pull a nylon pull
line through the pipe. Attach CAT5 to one end of the pull line. Pull
the CAT5 through. Terminate the ends with RJ45 connectors and plug
into either ethernet switch, router, or access points. You can also
use Coax Cable, phone line, fiber optics, or power line networking to
provide the backbone. However, there's some question as to how many
seperate bridges you can run on these systems. Perhaps a hybrid
approach where you run CAT5 inside the two buildings, and then run
coax, phone, fiber, or power line networking between the buildings.
<http://www.HomePlug.com>
<http://www.HomePNA.com>
<http://www.mocalliance.org>

>My concern is if the wireless routers talk to each other wirelessly
>there could be a significant decrease in performance. I'm not sure if
>this will be important though.

Slight? If you use wireless as a backhaul between access points (as
in a repeater or WDS bridge), you cut your maximum speed in half. I
can't tell if this will be important because I have no clue as to how
this will be used. If you're setting up some kind of multimedia
experience or game network, forget repeaters and WDS. You might get
away with it for light browsing and email. If you have more than one
repeater or WDS bridge between the furthest client and the router, you
will have miserable performance and complaints.

>What type of router or specific features of a router should I pay
>attention to.

Think access points, not routers. There's only one router in the
system. However, realize that you can convert a wireless router into
an access point quite easily. Details on request. Commodity wireless
routers are somewhat cheaper than access points (because of larger
sales volume).

>What routers are build so that don't crash or lose connection with the
>master internet line.

Cisco, 3com, Nortel, Sonicwall, and Siemens.
You will NOT get the level of reliability you are apparently expecting
from commodity routers (Linksys, Belkin, Dllink, and Netgear).

>My cheap netgear and belkin routers ($40) do
>this every so often with my cable connection.

This should be a clue. Are you expecting this wireless network to be
zero administration and 100% uptime once deployed? If so, even the
best of the breed can't do that. The problem is abuse. I can rattle
off horror stories if you're interested. Just think of what happens
if you have a meeting, and everyone turns on their Windoze laptops
simultaneously, which instantly try to update Windoze, the anti-virus
program, Quicktime, Mozilla, etc. Nothing happens while everyone
waits for the updates to finish. Say goodby to about 15-20 minutes.

>Most important is stability and reliability.

What about price? Ok, you wanted a specific recommendation. I
suggest you look into various "Wireless Switch" systems. They are
centrally managed, are easily monitoried, quite reliable, and priced
accordingly.

Wireless Switch vendor list:
Symbol
Airespace (Cisco)
Aruba (HP)
Entrasys
Xirrus
Meru Networks
Foundry Networks
Trapeze (3Com)
Chantry (Siemens)

http://www.arubanetworks.com
http://www.symbol.com/products/wireless/wireless.html
http://www.airespace.com
http://www.chantrynetworks.com
http://www.trapezenetworks.com
http://www.merunetworks.com
(etc)

Also, I suggest you read the Intel Wireless Hotspot Guide, which is
apparently missing from the Intel Web pile. See my copy at:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/Intel%20HotSpot%20Guide.pdf>
There's quite a bit on the basics of setting up such a system in this
document.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On Feb 15, 9:24 pm, Jeff Liebermann <j...@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us>
wrote:
> I'm curious. Why? Do you expect parishioners to bring laptops during
> services?

for when the sermon gets boring

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> I'm curious. Why? Do you expect parishioners to bring laptops during
> services?

Exploding battery fires could be quenched with holy water.