Choosing the right adapter (PCI/USB) together withe a Linksys WRT54G

Hi!

I'm needing some help to choose the right wireless adapter to my WRT54G
router.

Distance to the comp. is app. 20 m, 5 walls of 90 cm together. Line of
sight is perpendicular to these walls.

PCI: WMP54G, the comp. have an onboard LAN (SIS).

USB: WUSB54G might give some more freedom to direct the antenna.

Is it possible to use WPA with both these adapters?
The User Guide from Linksys.com indicates that this is only possible
together with a RADIUS-server.

/Ib

On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 16:18:14 +0200, "Ib" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>I'm needing some help to choose the right wireless adapter to my WRT54G
>router.
>
>Distance to the comp. is app. 20 m, 5 walls of 90 cm together. Line of
>sight is perpendicular to these walls.

Line of sight is always a straight line. If you don't have a straight
line, you don't have line of sight.
>
>PCI: WMP54G, the comp. have an onboard LAN (SIS).

http://www.linksys.com/products/prod...id=520&scid=36
The data sheet claims WPA support.

>USB: WUSB54G might give some more freedom to direct the antenna.

http://www.linksys.com/products/prod...id=36&prid=578
The data sheet does NOT claim WPA support and only lists WEP. WPA is
buit into XP SP2 only using Wireless Zero Config.
For W2K, use Funk Software's WPA client:
| http://linksys.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/...p?p_faqid=1021
WPA is not available for W98 and WinME.

>Is it possible to use WPA with both these adapters?
>The User Guide from Linksys.com indicates that this is only possible
>together with a RADIUS-server.

There are two types of WPA. One requires a RADIUS server for
authorization and authentication. The other uses a pre-shared key, no
RADIUS server, and it commonly called WPA-PSK. Use WPA-PSK.

I would go with the WUSB54G. The WMP54G usually requires an
additional external antenna to get decent performance in non line of
sight situations. Having the antenna buried behind the PC, between
the wall and the metal case, in the middle of a bunch of wires, and
low on the floor, is about the worst possible antenna location. Most
coax cables are limited to about 1 meter. The WUSB54G offers much
better antenna positioning and 16ft maximum USB cable. Make sure your
machine has USB2 support.


--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
....
>
>>USB: WUSB54G might give some more freedom to direct the antenna.
>
>
> http://www.linksys.com/products/prod...id=36&prid=578
> The data sheet does NOT claim WPA support and only lists WEP. WPA is

Are you sure? I'm assuming you are referring to the wusb54g. The
datasheet makes no mention, but the (online) instruction manual does of WPA:

"5. Select the method of security you want to use: WEP, PSK, PSK +
RADIUS, or RADIUS. WEP stands for Wired
Equivalent Privacy, and PSK stands for Pre-Shared Key. RADIUS stands for
Remote Authentication Dial-In User
Service.
NOTE: If your network is using WPA-Personal or WPA-PSK security, then
select PSK. If your network is using WPA-Enterprise or WPA-RADIUS security,
then select PSK + RADIUS."

(and more later)

> buit into XP SP2 only using Wireless Zero Config.

Or are you saying the support is by XP not the wireless unit?

I'm confused.... and having just ordered one of these would like to know
what the situation is please!

--
Please use the corrected version of the address below for replies.
Replies to the header address will be junked, as will mail from
various domains listed at www.scottsonline.org.uk
Mike Scott Harlow Essex England.(unet -a-t- scottsonline.org.uk)

On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 18:42:52 GMT, Mike Scott
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>> http://www.linksys.com/products/prod...id=36&prid=578
>> The data sheet does NOT claim WPA support and only lists WEP. WPA is

>Are you sure? I'm assuming you are referring to the wusb54g. The
>datasheet makes no mention, but the (online) instruction manual does of WPA:

No, I'm not 100% sure. I just did some digging in the Linksys
Knowledge pile and found that item on the WUSB54G and WPA. Digging a
bit further, I find:
http://linksys.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/...hp?p_faqid=802
which shows which product support WPA. The reason I didn't find it
before was that the WUSB54G is missing from the "products" section on
the left of the page. Unfortunately, it doesn't specify which
operating systems are supported.

A bit of history first. WPA was suppose to be a fix for the failings
of WEP encryption. It's primary goal was to supply a software fix
that did not require new hardware. In other words, it could be
implemented on WEP enabled hardware without requiring new hardware.

In the case of USB wireless devices, almost everything is done in the
driver software. If there's WPA support, it's usually in the driver.
However, Windoze XP offers Wireless Zero Config (WZC) which replaces
large parts of the driver pretzel. Instead of having the Linksys
driver do the WPA, Windoze XP WZC does it for you. For details, see:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=815485

However, that doesn't apply to other Windoze versions. This seems to
suggest that W2K requires Funk Software's client to get WPA support.
http://linksys.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/...p?p_faqid=1021

>"5. Select the method of security you want to use: WEP, PSK, PSK +
>RADIUS, or RADIUS. WEP stands for Wired
>Equivalent Privacy, and PSK stands for Pre-Shared Key. RADIUS stands for
>Remote Authentication Dial-In User
>Service.
>NOTE: If your network is using WPA-Personal or WPA-PSK security, then
>select PSK. If your network is using WPA-Enterprise or WPA-RADIUS security,
>then select PSK + RADIUS."

>> buit into XP SP2 only using Wireless Zero Config.
>Or are you saying the support is by XP not the wireless unit?

Well, the document at:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=815485
sure reads like WPA is an XP WZC feature.

If the WPA support is NOT in the Linksys driver, it will be in the XP
WZC driver config. What I'm not sure is if Linksys worked WPA into
their driver. It's an either/or situation. You can use the Linksys
driver, or you can use XP WZC, one at a time. There's a check box in
the WZC setup for "Let Windoze manage the wireless connection" which
if unchecked, reverts control to the Linksys driver. If checked, the
WUSB54G is run by the Linksys driver.

However, all this assumes you have XP. If not, methinks there may be
problems if WPA is not supported in the Linksys driver.

>I'm confused.... and having just ordered one of these would like to know
> what the situation is please!

Well, I can pull one off the shelf and try it to see if WPA is
supported. However, I probably won't have time to do that. Best to
ask someone that owns a working WUSB54G. Sorry that I can't be more
certain.


--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 22:55:49 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>There's a check box in
>the WZC setup for "Let Windoze manage the wireless connection" which
>if unchecked, reverts control to the Linksys driver. If checked, the
>WUSB54G is run by the Linksys driver.

Oops. The last line should read:
"If checked, the WUSB54G is run by the Windoze XP driver."

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 18:42:52 GMT, Mike Scott
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>> http://www.linksys.com/products/prod...id=36&prid=578
>> The data sheet does NOT claim WPA support and only lists WEP. WPA is
>
>Are you sure? I'm assuming you are referring to the wusb54g. The
>datasheet makes no mention, but the (online) instruction manual does of WPA:

I forgot about this item.
http://www.wirelesssecuritycorp.com/...PAAssistant.do
This is a *possibly* free WPA client that works with W98SE, WinME,
W2K, and XP. I can't figure out if the WPA part of the software is
free or if you have to pay $5/month. Whatever "free functionality"
means is a bit cryptic. I guess(tm) it's free, but it's certainly not
clear.



--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 18:42:52 GMT, Mike Scott
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>> http://www.linksys.com/products/prod...id=36&prid=578
>>> The data sheet does NOT claim WPA support and only lists WEP. WPA is
>>
>> Are you sure? I'm assuming you are referring to the wusb54g. The
>> datasheet makes no mention, but the (online) instruction manual does of WPA:
>
> I forgot about this item.
> http://www.wirelesssecuritycorp.com/...PAAssistant.do
> This is a *possibly* free WPA client that works with W98SE, WinME,
> W2K, and XP. I can't figure out if the WPA part of the software is
> free or if you have to pay $5/month. Whatever "free functionality"
> means is a bit cryptic. I guess(tm) it's free, but it's certainly not
> clear.

I installed "WSC Guard" software on a WinMe machine. In the setup I chose to not
register and use just the FREE functions. I am currently not using any
encryption on my network. (yes, shame on me) But apparently I could have used
WSC to setup WPA and I will give that a try later. But it is FREE and it does
work with my WRT54GS router and a WMP54GS wireless PCI card. I set it up
entirely from the wireless computer and NOT with a direct CAT5 cable as the
instructions seemed to indicate.
So far I like it better than the Linksys config utility. It is less resource
hungry and ends gracefully. In my case... after connecting I can right click on
the notification icon and choose quit. The 2 tray icons disappear and the
program items are gone from the Cnt Alt Del menu and 7% of the system resources
are immediately freed up. That's important to me. I remain connected to my
network and the Internet. The Linksys config utility could also be ended after
connecting but I had to do it with the Cnt Alt Del menu (end task) and about 1/3
of the time would get the "blue screen of death". "Any Key" would take me back
to Windows and all was apparently OK.
So... it is FREE and it does work but I haven't tried to configure WPA yet...
and that is really the point of the post. I have 3 other XP computers on the
network and will attempt to set up WPA for the network. One of the XP machines
is old and slow and I wonder what overhead WPA will have on it. (Jeff?)

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 17:27:22 GMT, "DanR" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>So... it is FREE and it does work but I haven't tried to configure WPA yet...
>and that is really the point of the post. I have 3 other XP computers on the
>network and will attempt to set up WPA for the network. One of the XP machines
>is old and slow and I wonder what overhead WPA will have on it. (Jeff?)

My rule of thumb is about 10-15% overhead for WEP or WPA as compared
to unencrypted. Some vendors claim 5% overhead. However, that's for
thruput, not for CPU overhead. I don't have a good number because CPU
overhead varies depending on CPU speed, memory speed, what else the
CPU is doing, etc. Different drivers vary radically in coding
efficiency. I could measure a few and see if there's any difference
between WEP and WPA, but unless the driver writers goofed, I don't
expect to see any difference.

WEP and WPA differ only in the way the encryption key tokens are
exchanged. The actual encrypted packets are both RC4 encryption,
which is fairly efficient. You shouldn't notice any difference
between WEP and WPA overhead. There's a remote chance that some
vendor has WEP in the client firmware, but implemented WPA in the
driver software. I haven't seen any like that, but if they exist, you
might notice more overhead for WPA. Since the USB adapters tend to do
everything in the driver, you should not notice any difference between
WEP and WPA overhead.

I won't say anything about running XP on an "old and slow" machine.


--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 17:27:22 GMT, "DanR" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> So... it is FREE and it does work but I haven't tried to configure WPA yet...
>> and that is really the point of the post. I have 3 other XP computers on the
>> network and will attempt to set up WPA for the network. One of the XP
>> machines is old and slow and I wonder what overhead WPA will have on it.
>> (Jeff?)
>
> My rule of thumb is about 10-15% overhead for WEP or WPA as compared
> to unencrypted. Some vendors claim 5% overhead. However, that's for
> thruput, not for CPU overhead. I don't have a good number because CPU
> overhead varies depending on CPU speed, memory speed, what else the
> CPU is doing, etc. Different drivers vary radically in coding
> efficiency. I could measure a few and see if there's any difference
> between WEP and WPA, but unless the driver writers goofed, I don't
> expect to see any difference.
>
> WEP and WPA differ only in the way the encryption key tokens are
> exchanged. The actual encrypted packets are both RC4 encryption,
> which is fairly efficient. You shouldn't notice any difference
> between WEP and WPA overhead. There's a remote chance that some
> vendor has WEP in the client firmware, but implemented WPA in the
> driver software. I haven't seen any like that, but if they exist, you
> might notice more overhead for WPA. Since the USB adapters tend to do
> everything in the driver, you should not notice any difference between
> WEP and WPA overhead.
>
> I won't say anything about running XP on an "old and slow" machine.

Well it turns out that the "old and slow" machine is using a Linksys WMP11
wireless B PCI adaptor. And per Linksys there is no WPA support for that card. I
do appreciate the link to "WSC Guard" site and will continue to use that app as
my means to "connect" on the WinMe machine.
I could go for WEP but apparently it's not difficult to break.

"Jeff Liebermann" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 16:18:14 +0200, "Ib" <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>>I'm needing some help to choose the right wireless adapter to my
>>WRT54G
>>router.

<...>

>>Is it possible to use WPA with both these adapters?
>>The User Guide from Linksys.com indicates that this is only possible
>>together with a RADIUS-server.
>
> There are two types of WPA. One requires a RADIUS server for
> authorization and authentication. The other uses a pre-shared key, no
> RADIUS server, and it commonly called WPA-PSK. Use WPA-PSK.
>
> I would go with the WUSB54G. The WMP54G usually requires an
> additional external antenna to get decent performance in non line of
> sight situations. Having the antenna buried behind the PC, between
> the wall and the metal case, in the middle of a bunch of wires, and
> low on the floor, is about the worst possible antenna location. Most
> coax cables are limited to about 1 meter. The WUSB54G offers much
> better antenna positioning and 16ft maximum USB cable. Make sure your
> machine has USB2 support.
> --
> Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

Tnx for your answer!

I've now bought a WUSB54G.

At first I tried with the Linksys software. It works OK together with my
Win XP PRO SP2++, but req. a Repair-option after a re-boot with the
USB-device connected at start-up or a removal (a proper one: Remove
Hardware in the Systray) + disconnect of the USB-dev. before it works
again - an unusable option!

The Linksys software was then uninstalled and the WUSB54G re-connected
and the Win. Built-In driver used instead.

There have been no problems sofar!

I would now try a couple of days on this machine before I move it to the
target machine, a Win. XP Home SP2++.

Ib