Choosing a Netgear Wireless router

After reading some earlier posts I've been looking at the Netgear DG834
range or wireless routers.

The benefits of these are wireless, ADSL2+ and Dynamic DNS which my
present Speedtouch 510 does not offer.

The DG834PN with 'Rangemax' claims an increased range but am I right in
thinking that I would only benefit from this if I also used a Netgear
'Rangemax' network adapter? - or are there other adapters which use the same
'MIMO' technology? Also I assume that a Rangemax USB network adapter would
not offer any benefit over a standard inbuilt laptop wireless adapter when
the laptop is used at some random site?

The concept of Rangemax appeals to me as the router will be attached to my
BT master socket sited in my attic, and ideally the wireless network should
work on the ground floor of my two storey house.

There is also the DG834N which can work at a higher speed. However I read an
Ebuyer review which said that it would enter some 'strange state' if it is
powered down and then powered up after less than 5 minutes! Does anyone else
have experience of this?

A tolerance of power cuts of any length is an essential requirement where I
live!



--
Michael Chare

In message <QMCdnfZL3NK45tTanZ2dnUVZ8h-(E-Mail Removed)>
at 13:39:49 on Sun, 25 Nov 2007, Michael Chare
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>There is also the DG834N which can work at a higher speed. However I
>read an Ebuyer review which said that it would enter some 'strange
>state' if it is powered down and then powered up after less than 5
>minutes! Does anyone else have experience of this?
>
I've got the DG834GT about 3 years ago based on a review I read on
thinkbroadband and it's mostly flawless. If the power goes off (which
it has done a couple of times today for less than a second funnily
enough) then I've had to wait 5 minutes to resynch to the exchange like
this

Sat, 2000-01-01 00:00:22 - Initialize LCP.
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:00:22 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:00:32 - CHAP authentication failed
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:00:32 - LCP down.

I guess this authentication failure is due to the Orange servers going
down at the exchange too. The router retries every minute, and then
gets a successful connection after 5 minutes

The only trouble I did have was upgrading the firmware to 1.02.13 which
seemed to completely disable the wireless - and not just me too from
looking at google.

Also occasionally had to reboot my PC in the past when rebooting the
router (even doing ipconfig /release, renew etc) didn't work, but apart
from that nothing bad to say about it in all the time I've had it
--
Mike News

"Michael Chare" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:QMCdnfZL3NK45tTanZ2dnUVZ8h-(E-Mail Removed)...
> After reading some earlier posts I've been looking at the Netgear DG834
> range or wireless routers.
>

Good choice. I have a DG834G v3 and it has never gone wrong in the 2 years
I have had it switched on 24hours a day.

> The benefits of these are wireless, ADSL2+ and Dynamic DNS which my
> present Speedtouch 510 does not offer.
>

No idea what the ADSL2+ is, probably the much higher speed connections. I
tried the Dynamic DNS and it made absolutely no difference to performance.
You usually need to pay a service charge if you want fancy settings that
will cope if your ISP DNS goes off. It's not worth using it.

> The DG834PN with 'Rangemax' claims an increased range but am I right in
> thinking that I would only benefit from this if I also used a Netgear
> 'Rangemax' network adapter? - or are there other adapters which use the
> same 'MIMO' technology? Also I assume that a Rangemax USB network adapter
> would not offer any benefit over a standard inbuilt laptop wireless
> adapter when the laptop is used at some random site?
>

I have found you are best sticking to the same make of adapter as router, it
avoids complications.
I would disagree about the range being further, it generally is less than a
standard router. The only reason i say that is because the bandwidth of a
MIMO is either 20MHz or a maximum of 40MHz. It spreads itself across the
channels available, so you might knock out any neighbours signals or even
suffer if they use a similar one. The wider the bandwidth the stronger the
signal needs to be. Think about an FM stereo radio, when it hisses and you
flick it to mono it's fine - that is because the bandwidth is smaller. Or
think of a standard TV signal - the bandwidth taken up is a lot more than a
digital one. That's to make it simple, without technical bits.

Unless you are going to have a few computers connected, all going like hell,
a WiFi radio and are streaming video/audio and files between each computer
there is no need for anything other than a standard wireless router. The
only thing that affects range on a normal router is the position of it and
the computer. You can make a small reflector to go around the aerial to
boost the signal.

> The concept of Rangemax appeals to me as the router will be attached to
> my BT master socket sited in my attic, and ideally the wireless network
> should work on the ground floor of my two storey house.
>

A normal router would cover the house easily, unless you have foil lined
plasterboard!

> There is also the DG834N which can work at a higher speed. However I read
> an Ebuyer review which said that it would enter some 'strange state' if it
> is powered down and then powered up after less than 5 minutes! Does anyone
> else have experience of this?
>

Not sure of what that is - the DG834G just fires back in to life again and
keeps going from where it left off.

> A tolerance of power cuts of any length is an essential requirement where
> I live!
>
>
An idea might be to buy a cheap UPS (Uninterruptable Power Supply) so that
if the mains goes off the router will never know. You can pick them up for
around £50.

>
> --
> Michael Chare

i use an 834gt quite happily, get a sky branded one from ebay for about a
tenner and flash it with netgera firmware - Bargain!


"Frank" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:47498661$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Michael Chare" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:QMCdnfZL3NK45tTanZ2dnUVZ8h-(E-Mail Removed)...
>> After reading some earlier posts I've been looking at the Netgear DG834
>> range or wireless routers.
>>
>
> Good choice. I have a DG834G v3 and it has never gone wrong in the 2
> years I have had it switched on 24hours a day.
>
>> The benefits of these are wireless, ADSL2+ and Dynamic DNS which my
>> present Speedtouch 510 does not offer.
>>
>
> No idea what the ADSL2+ is, probably the much higher speed connections. I
> tried the Dynamic DNS and it made absolutely no difference to performance.
> You usually need to pay a service charge if you want fancy settings that
> will cope if your ISP DNS goes off. It's not worth using it.
>
>> The DG834PN with 'Rangemax' claims an increased range but am I right in
>> thinking that I would only benefit from this if I also used a Netgear
>> 'Rangemax' network adapter? - or are there other adapters which use the
>> same 'MIMO' technology? Also I assume that a Rangemax USB network adapter
>> would not offer any benefit over a standard inbuilt laptop wireless
>> adapter when the laptop is used at some random site?
>>
>
> I have found you are best sticking to the same make of adapter as router,
> it avoids complications.
> I would disagree about the range being further, it generally is less than
> a standard router. The only reason i say that is because the bandwidth of
> a MIMO is either 20MHz or a maximum of 40MHz. It spreads itself across
> the channels available, so you might knock out any neighbours signals or
> even suffer if they use a similar one. The wider the bandwidth the
> stronger the signal needs to be. Think about an FM stereo radio, when it
> hisses and you flick it to mono it's fine - that is because the bandwidth
> is smaller. Or think of a standard TV signal - the bandwidth taken up is
> a lot more than a digital one. That's to make it simple, without
> technical bits.
>
> Unless you are going to have a few computers connected, all going like
> hell, a WiFi radio and are streaming video/audio and files between each
> computer there is no need for anything other than a standard wireless
> router. The only thing that affects range on a normal router is the
> position of it and the computer. You can make a small reflector to go
> around the aerial to boost the signal.
>
>> The concept of Rangemax appeals to me as the router will be attached to
>> my BT master socket sited in my attic, and ideally the wireless network
>> should work on the ground floor of my two storey house.
>>
>
> A normal router would cover the house easily, unless you have foil lined
> plasterboard!
>
>> There is also the DG834N which can work at a higher speed. However I read
>> an Ebuyer review which said that it would enter some 'strange state' if
>> it is powered down and then powered up after less than 5 minutes! Does
>> anyone else have experience of this?
>>
>
> Not sure of what that is - the DG834G just fires back in to life again and
> keeps going from where it left off.
>
>> A tolerance of power cuts of any length is an essential requirement where
>> I live!
>>
>>
> An idea might be to buy a cheap UPS (Uninterruptable Power Supply) so that
> if the mains goes off the router will never know. You can pick them up
> for around £50.
>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Chare
>
>

"Frank" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:47498661$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Michael Chare" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:QMCdnfZL3NK45tTanZ2dnUVZ8h-(E-Mail Removed)...
>> After reading some earlier posts I've been looking at the Netgear DG834
>> range or wireless routers.
>>
>
> Good choice. I have a DG834G v3 and it has never gone wrong in the 2
> years I have had it switched on 24hours a day.
>
>> The benefits of these are wireless, ADSL2+ and Dynamic DNS which my
>> present Speedtouch 510 does not offer.
>>
>
> No idea what the ADSL2+ is, probably the much higher speed connections. I
> tried the Dynamic DNS and it made absolutely no difference to performance.
> You usually need to pay a service charge if you want fancy settings that
> will cope if your ISP DNS goes off. It's not worth using it.

No, Dynamic DNS has noting to do with your ISP's DNS. Some ISPs will
provide you a static IP address, but many allocate your address
dynamically - which means it will change. DDNS is a mechanism for your
router to associate itself with a URL. So you could register a URL of the
form frank-smith.dyndns.org, and when your router establishes its connection
with your ISP it updates the DNS entry so that frank-smith.dyndns.org points
to the external IP address of your router.

--
Graham J

"Michael Chare" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:QMCdnfZL3NK45tTanZ2dnUVZ8h-(E-Mail Removed)...
> After reading some earlier posts I've been looking at the Netgear DG834
> range or wireless routers.
>
> The benefits of these are wireless, ADSL2+ and Dynamic DNS which my
> present Speedtouch 510 does not offer.
>
> The DG834PN with 'Rangemax' claims an increased range but am I right in
> thinking that I would only benefit from this if I also used a Netgear
> 'Rangemax' network adapter? - or are there other adapters which use the same
> 'MIMO' technology? Also I assume that a Rangemax USB network adapter would
> not offer any benefit over a standard inbuilt laptop wireless adapter when
> the laptop is used at some random site?
>
> The concept of Rangemax appeals to me as the router will be attached to my
> BT master socket sited in my attic, and ideally the wireless network should
> work on the ground floor of my two storey house.
>
> There is also the DG834N which can work at a higher speed. However I read an
> Ebuyer review which said that it would enter some 'strange state' if it is
> powered down and then powered up after less than 5 minutes! Does anyone else
> have experience of this?
>
> A tolerance of power cuts of any length is an essential requirement where I
> live!
>

I've got a netgear dg834g V3 and a dg834gt and a dg834N here.

My preference is for the later two as they use the broadcom chipset and allow you
to tweak the Target Noise margin should you need to. The new dg834g V4 also
uses a broadcom chipset. The broadcom based ones sync slightly faster on my
line than the old dg834g V3 (which uses the TI AR7 chipset).

They all seem very stable, although I've not used wireless on any of them
(I don't have a wireless adaptor). I did have a couple of lock-ups with the dg834g v3
but only while I had a line fault that was causing crackling, changes in attenuation and
very frequent disconnects - given the state of the line I was impressed the
router worked at-all while I was waiting for the fault to be fixed

My dg834N seems to run remarkably cool, but that is probably at least in part due to
the size of the case.One possible disadvantage of the N is that the antenna are internal
(6 of them I think) so you can't attach an external antenna.

I have not noticed any issue with switching my N on within 5 minutes of
turning it off, although I haven't turned it off that many times and I usually turn routers
off for at least 10 seconds - I'll try it tomorrow if I remember, but this sounds like
the reviewer had a faulty unit.

"Mel" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:4749c022$0$47135$(E-Mail Removed) reenews.net...
>
> "Michael Chare" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:QMCdnfZL3NK45tTanZ2dnUVZ8h-(E-Mail Removed)...

> I have not noticed any issue with switching my N on within 5 minutes of
> turning it off, although I haven't turned it off that many times and I
> usually turn routers
> off for at least 10 seconds - I'll try it tomorrow if I remember, but this
> sounds like
> the reviewer had a faulty unit.

Well there appear to be many of them! Since writing my original post I found
this:

http://forum1.netgear.com/showthread.php?t=13282&page=2

:-)

I have learnt that I must avoid the AR7 chipset. I need a router that will
work well in marginal conditions as I have a high loss line.
My Speedtouch 510 shows (up/down)

Power 12.0 / 15.5
Attenuation 31.5 / 59.0
Noise Margin 13.0 / 6.0
Reserved bandwidth 448 / 1600


--
Michael Chare

Michael Chare wrote:

> After reading some earlier posts I've been looking at the Netgear DG834
> range or wireless routers.
>
> The benefits of these are wireless, ADSL2+ and Dynamic DNS which my
> present Speedtouch 510 does not offer.

Bear in mind that ADSL2+ support is only relevant if your line is ADSL2+.
This will only be the case if you're on LLU; however BT are going to be
moving to ADSL2+ over the next few years as part of 21CN.

> The DG834PN with 'Rangemax' claims an increased range but am I right in
> thinking that I would only benefit from this if I also used a Netgear
> 'Rangemax' network adapter? - or are there other adapters which use the
> same 'MIMO' technology? Also I assume that a Rangemax USB network adapter
> would not offer any benefit over a standard inbuilt laptop wireless
> adapter when the laptop is used at some random site?
>
> The concept of Rangemax appeals to me as the router will be attached to
> my BT master socket sited in my attic, and ideally the wireless network
> should work on the ground floor of my two storey house.

If the wireless is the main reason you're thinking of upgrading, you could
always patch in a wireless access point, and potentially have it nearer to
where you're actually going to be using the wireless.

> There is also the DG834N which can work at a higher speed. However I read
> an Ebuyer review which said that it would enter some 'strange state' if it
> is powered down and then powered up after less than 5 minutes! Does anyone
> else have experience of this?

If any company sells a sufficient amount of any product, you're always going
to be able to find someone who's had problems with it.

--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ((E-Mail Removed))
20:35:18 up 14 days, 9:14, 2 users, load average: 0.20, 0.08, 0.01
50,000 watts of funking power

> If the power goes off (which
> it has done a couple of times today for less than a second funnily enough)

That's intresting, are you in Manchester?

--
Graham

%Profound_observation%

"Mel" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I've got a netgear dg834g V3 and a dg834gt and a dg834N here.


I've also got all 3, but my G is a v1 and I'm on a very bad line -

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 1856 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 61.0 db 31.5 db
Noise Margin 15.2 db 15.0 db


The N keeps dropping the line and quite frankly seems to be a waste of
money. The WN121T USB 2.0 adapter does not impress. It has a very
short fixed lead that is supplied very badly kinked (they wrap it
around the foot to get to in the box). It also keeps falling over.
The earlier WG121 is excellent.

The G has been a good router, but being v1 the firmware it is no
longer being updated and it's been permanently on for several years
now. Time to replace?

The GT is superb ( ex SKY flashed with v1.02.09 - DGTeam Rev. 0743)
The latest firmware from Netgear is also spot on Routerstats shows a
straight line graph for noise margin/time on the Netgear fware.

I only put the DGTeam firmware on because as you can see from above my
Noise Margin was high at 15.2db. I now get higher sync and lower
noise:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 2112 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 61.0 db 31.5 db
Noise Margin 11.0 db 15.0 db

The DGTeam firmware is not quite as good as the latest Netgear
v1.02.13 (for me). It's still based on the earlier v1.02.09 but it
provides a lot more menu items when you log onto the router. A typical
Noise Margin graph is:

http://img41.imagevenue.com/img.php?...122_1035lo.jpg

or (same)

http://tinyurl.com/2bcqku

The GT is highly hackable and Linux based. Extra commands such as
reduce noise can be sent to the router via Telnet, but aren't stored
after a power down. The router does run hot, probably because of the
small case,

Sean B