Centrino 11g connection problems

Hi,
I have a Sony Vaio laptop with a built-in Centrino 11g NIC (Intel/PRO
Wireless 2200BG) running XP SP2. I've had wireless connection troubles
with it from day one. I've done a bunch of research on the issue, and
heard about the typical problem areas such as WZC service and such.

What I've come to realize is that in every situation where the laptop
can't maintain a decent connection, it's linked at "G" speeds. And when
linked at "B" speeds, it has perfect (or nearly perfect) connectivity.

Anyway, I don't want to re-hash all the troubleshooting I've done, but I
did have 2 new thoughts on the matter and I would like people's opinions:

1) I noticed Netgear wireless routers have a "Centrino" label on them,
and claim to be tested with Centrino devices. Is this sticker an empty
marketing creation or does it mean Netgear devices are likely to be a
bit better with Centrino clients?

2) I know I have a fair amount of interference because I live in a
high-density area, with many other wireless networks around, plus
cordless phones, etc. Would one of the new access points with MIMO make
an appreciable difference in such an environment?

TIA,
Jonathan

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 21:54:24 -0500, Jonathan <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>1) I noticed Netgear wireless routers have a "Centrino" label on them,
>and claim to be tested with Centrino devices. Is this sticker an empty
>marketing creation or does it mean Netgear devices are likely to be a
>bit better with Centrino clients?

Chuckle. When the first Centrino chips appeared, Intel made a huge
mess of the driver, which broke plenty of wireless access points.
Netgear was among the unlucky few to get burned by the first Centrino
devices. For example see the "changes" section below:
http://kbserver.netgear.com/support_...asp?dnldID=574
Rather than wait for Intel to get it together, Netgear and others
tweaked their wireless access point and router firmware to work with
Centrino. The previous issue of Network Magazine had an article that
covers some of the Centrino history and roadmap for the future:

http://www.networkmagazine.com/share...cleId=57701962
Well, that's not the article I was thinking about, but it does have
some interesting things to say about Centrino.

>2) I know I have a fair amount of interference because I live in a
>high-density area, with many other wireless networks around, plus
>cordless phones, etc. Would one of the new access points with MIMO make
>an appreciable difference in such an environment?

Sorry, no personal experience yet.


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831.336.2558 voice http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
# (E-Mail Removed)
# (E-Mail Removed) AE6KS

"Jonathan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:meudnY_LVMNwmqzfRVn-(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi,
> I have a Sony Vaio laptop with a built-in Centrino 11g NIC (Intel/PRO
> Wireless 2200BG) running XP SP2. I've had wireless connection troubles

It's not Centrino that determines whether this stuff works, it's the IEEE.
So if you happen to have a laptop that doesn't seem to work well with a
router, you have two options: get a new IEEE-certified PC Card, or get a new
router.
>

> cordless phones, etc. Would one of the new access points with MIMO make
> an appreciable difference in such an environment?

MIMO does two things: it increases speed (to 35 Mbps), and it increases
range (to 1500 feet). There is very little improvement (if any) when it
comes to things like interference, channel conflicts, and signal congestion.

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:33:47 -0600, "JB"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>It's not Centrino that determines whether this stuff works, it's the IEEE.

Not exactly. It's the Wi-Fi forum that certifies compliance to a
multitude of IEEE 802.11(a->z) mutations:
http://www.wi-fi.org
Note that they only certify the base 802.11a/b/g compliance. WPA,
WPA2, and WMM are seperate certifications:
http://www.wi-fi.org/OpenSection/cer...ucts.asp?TID=2

>So if you happen to have a laptop that doesn't seem to work well with a
>router, you have two options: get a new IEEE-certified PC Card, or get a new
>router.

Or just update the firmware, operating system, drivers, etc.

>> cordless phones, etc. Would one of the new access points with MIMO make
>> an appreciable difference in such an environment?
>
>MIMO does two things: it increases speed (to 35 Mbps), and it increases
>range (to 1500 feet). There is very little improvement (if any) when it
>comes to things like interference, channel conflicts, and signal congestion.
>

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831.336.2558 voice http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
# (E-Mail Removed)
# (E-Mail Removed) AE6KS

"Jeff Liebermann" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:33:47 -0600, "JB"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>It's not Centrino that determines whether this stuff works, it's the IEEE.
>
> Not exactly. It's the Wi-Fi forum that certifies compliance to a

Funny. But you knew what I meant - Centrino follows the standards groups.

>>So if you happen to have a laptop that doesn't seem to work well with a
>>router, you have two options: get a new IEEE-certified PC Card, or get a
>>new
>>router.
>
> Or just update the firmware, operating system, drivers, etc.

I doubt it -- there's no specific driver update for the notebook.

"Jonathan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:meudnY_LVMNwmqzfRVn-(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi,
> I have a Sony Vaio laptop with a built-in Centrino 11g NIC
(Intel/PRO
> Wireless 2200BG) running XP SP2. I've had wireless connection
troubles
> with it from day one. I've done a bunch of research on the issue,
and
> heard about the typical problem areas such as WZC service and such.

I also have the 2200BG and it works flawlessy with WZC with my Linksys
wap or wrt54.

>
> What I've come to realize is that in every situation where the
laptop
> can't maintain a decent connection, it's linked at "G" speeds. And
when
> linked at "B" speeds, it has perfect (or nearly perfect)
connectivity.

>
> Anyway, I don't want to re-hash all the troubleshooting I've done,
but I
> did have 2 new thoughts on the matter and I would like people's
opinions:
>
> 1) I noticed Netgear wireless routers have a "Centrino" label on
them,
> and claim to be tested with Centrino devices. Is this sticker an
empty
> marketing creation or does it mean Netgear devices are likely to be
a
> bit better with Centrino clients?
>
> 2) I know I have a fair amount of interference because I live in a
> high-density area, with many other wireless networks around, plus
> cordless phones, etc. Would one of the new access points with MIMO
make
> an appreciable difference in such an environment?

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 08:22:08 -0600, "JB"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>"Jeff Liebermann" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed).. .
>> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:33:47 -0600, "JB"
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>It's not Centrino that determines whether this stuff works, it's the IEEE.
>>
>> Not exactly. It's the Wi-Fi forum that certifies compliance to a
>
>Funny. But you knew what I meant - Centrino follows the standards groups.

I'm sure Intel will be gratified to know that their Centrino
marketting conspiracy is under the control of the Wi-Fi Forum which is
currently dominated by their wireless competitors. Also, the IEEE
does not currently have a certification program. They publish and
hammer out the specifications, but other organizations provide the
certification.

Centrino is a marketing term. It applies to a growing number of late
to market chips. Not all the chips come from Intel. The first and
2nd generation of Centrino wireless chips were from Philips and Texas
Instruments.

>>>So if you happen to have a laptop that doesn't seem to work well with a
>>>router, you have two options: get a new IEEE-certified PC Card, or get a
>>>new
>>>router.
>>
>> Or just update the firmware, operating system, drivers, etc.
>
>I doubt it -- there's no specific driver update for the notebook.

No driver updates for an unspecified model Sony Vaio laptop? I can't
find an update without the specific model number. Maybe by the Intel
Pro 2200BG card, but we don't know the current driver version. Can I
test drive your crystal ball?

I would be entertained to know how you determined that there was a
compatibility issue from the sparce original evidence. There are such
problems, and I slammed into one last night, but they are rare. Most
devices claiming to do 802.11g will function adequately if one turns
off all the enhancements and performance boosters. However, Wi-Fi
certification does not insure that things will be *TOTALLY*
compatible. For example, last nights horror story was a Linksys
WUSB11v2.8 and my office DLink DI-614+. I couldn't get the 64 bit WEP
key to work with either hex or ascii. When I rolled back the WUSB11
driver from 2.1 to 2.0, it magically started to work in hex only
because Dlink and Linksys use different ascii to hex conversion
algorithms. Both devices carry Wi-Fi Forum compliance to 802.11b. So
much for compatible.

However, there are still interoperability problems:
http://www.newswireless.net/index.cfm/article/786
where they can't even blame the right company.

Anyway, what I'm trying to demonstrate (between visitors, phone calls,
interruptions, IM's) is that that a Wi-Fi sticker does not guarantee
very much beyond the basic 802.11a/b/g features and functions. Those
usually work. It's all the other stuff that is NOT involved in the
certification ordeal process, that usually causes interoperability
problems.


--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

"Jeff Liebermann" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...

> I'm sure Intel will be gratified to know that their Centrino
> marketting conspiracy is under the control of the Wi-Fi Forum which is

No idea what you are talking baout. Did I say Centrino was anything but a
marketing term?

> No driver updates for an unspecified model Sony Vaio laptop? I can't
> find an update without the specific model number. Maybe by the Intel
> Pro 2200BG card, but we don't know the current driver version. Can I
> test drive your crystal ball?
>
> I would be entertained to know how you determined that there was a
> compatibility issue from the sparce original evidence. There are such

Jeff, this is not a support call. Not every Usenet questiosn requires a
detailed analysis of the facts -- if they did, then we would need to start
charging for that. If an older Sony laptop is flaky, the general guidance
would be: consider a newer PC Card that matches your router. Someone who has
a Linksys router and a Linksys PC Card is in more control over the
connection than someone with Centrino, period, case closed.

Airhead wrote:
> "Jonathan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:meudnY_LVMNwmqzfRVn-(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>>Hi,
>>I have a Sony Vaio laptop with a built-in Centrino 11g NIC
>
> (Intel/PRO
>
>>Wireless 2200BG) running XP SP2. I've had wireless connection
>
> troubles
>
>>with it from day one. I've done a bunch of research on the issue,
>
> and
>
>>heard about the typical problem areas such as WZC service and such.
>
>
> I also have the 2200BG and it works flawlessy with WZC with my Linksys
> wap or wrt54.

My 2200BG works well with my old Linksys WAP11 v1.1, but of course
that's 11b. :-(

What other APs are known to work well with Centrino "G" NICs? I can
keep buying and returning APs I guess but recommendations would be
preferred. It sounds like the WRT54 should be fine. Which others?

thanks,
Jonathan

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 12:01:38 -0600, "JB"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>"Jeff Liebermann" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed).. .
>
>> I'm sure Intel will be gratified to know that their Centrino
>> marketting conspiracy is under the control of the Wi-Fi Forum which is

>No idea what you are talking baout. Did I say Centrino was anything but a
>marketing term?

Sorry, I misread your statement of:
"Funny. But you knew what I meant - Centrino follows the
standards groups."
Since the topic was the Wi-Fi Forum group, I assumed you meant that
Intel followed the Wi-Fi Forum. I didn't realize you mean't the IEEE.

>Jeff, this is not a support call. Not every Usenet questiosn requires a
>detailed analysis of the facts -- if they did, then we would need to start
>charging for that.

I do charge. Try sending me your problem via email and you'll get my
consulting rate card. The difference is that everyone learns from
Usenet answers. Only the person with the problem learns for email. I
consider that consulting and charge for it.

Incidentally, I just bludgeoned Google into disclosing how many
posting I've made on Usenet over the years. 10,400 with my current
email address and about 2,000 with a previous one. Does that qualify
me as a writer?

>If an older Sony laptop is flaky, the general guidance
>would be: consider a newer PC Card that matches your router. Someone who has
>a Linksys router and a Linksys PC Card is in more control over the
>connection than someone with Centrino, period, case closed.

All one manufactory is generally good advice. I prefer all one
chipset and don't worry about the manufactory, but that's a bit
difficult as some Linksys PC Card products have as many a 4 mutations
each with different chipsets. However, we can assume (wrongly) that
LInksys does regression testing on obsolete and out of production
products. However, to play it safe, methinks instead of just buying
from one manufactory, one should throw out even the old Linksys stuff
and purchase everything brand new, from the same product series, and
of course with the Wi-Fi Forum certification sticker. Yep, that's
safe and certainly give "more control". Actually, we can dispense
with the Wi-Fi Forum compliance tests as if everyone followed your
advice and purchased everything from one manufacturer, we wouldn't
need cross vendor standards compliance testing.

Looking around the office, I note a rather wide variety of
manufacturers, chipsets, technologies, and vintage. I even have an
old 802.11 (1 and 2 Mbit/sec only) Teletronics PCMCIA card that's
still in use. Everything talks to everything else. I did have to
play with the preamble length and timing to deal with timing issues,
but that was easy.


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831.336.2558 voice http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
# (E-Mail Removed)
# (E-Mail Removed) AE6KS