Cat5 Woes

Hi there,

I purchased a 100m reel of Cat5e cable with a view to networking the two
computers upstairs for broadband. I have a D-Link router which the ADSL will
plug into when it comes.

The electrician was here today and cabled up everything but here the
problems start. The computer downstairs is about 2 metres from the router
and the cable that was made up by the spark works fine, and I can see/use
the web interface fine from that machine. Cable 2 (for names sake) runs up
to a laptop upstairs and about 20 metres of cable run to it. Cable 3 runs
alongside cable2 for a while but then goes further up the outside wall and
round to the other room where the other desktop is.

So.. the laptop for cable 2 can SEE the cable (says connected) but nothing
will happen. Can't pickup DHCP from the router, can't ping anything
internally.

Desktop on cable 3 cannot even see the cable! Not a dicky bird.

I took the laptop downstairs and plugged it into the working cable and it
recognises the cable, but again does nothing!

Is there anything that would affect the signal strength to the computer on
cable 3 since it is further away? I know about the 100m rule but I haven't
used 100m of cable to this point.

Is there anything known about DIY cables (even those made by sparks) and
laptops? I know the laptop works because I tried it with the straightthrough
cat5 cable that came with the router.

I'm tearing my hair out over this one (electrician too!) so any help would
be very much appreciated!!!


--

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 19:32:03 +0100, "George Hewitt"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Hi there,
>
>I purchased a 100m reel of Cat5e cable with a view to networking the two
>computers upstairs for broadband. I have a D-Link router which the ADSL will
>plug into when it comes.
>
>The electrician was here today and cabled up everything but here the
>problems start. The computer downstairs is about 2 metres from the router
>and the cable that was made up by the spark works fine, and I can see/use
>the web interface fine from that machine. Cable 2 (for names sake) runs up
>to a laptop upstairs and about 20 metres of cable run to it. Cable 3 runs
>alongside cable2 for a while but then goes further up the outside wall and
>round to the other room where the other desktop is.
>
>So.. the laptop for cable 2 can SEE the cable (says connected) but nothing
>will happen. Can't pickup DHCP from the router, can't ping anything
>internally.
>
>Desktop on cable 3 cannot even see the cable! Not a dicky bird.
>
>I took the laptop downstairs and plugged it into the working cable and it
>recognises the cable, but again does nothing!
>
>Is there anything that would affect the signal strength to the computer on
>cable 3 since it is further away? I know about the 100m rule but I haven't
>used 100m of cable to this point.
>
>Is there anything known about DIY cables (even those made by sparks) and
>laptops? I know the laptop works because I tried it with the straightthrough
>cat5 cable that came with the router.
>
>I'm tearing my hair out over this one (electrician too!) so any help would
>be very much appreciated!!!

Have you checked that the cable wiring is correct?
(You want "Straight-Through Wiring Using The 586A Standard" about 1/3
of the way down the page:
<http://www.bluemax.net/techtips/networking/Wiring_Tips/Wiring100TX/colorcodestandards.htm>
)

Derek
--
"We're born with a number of powerful instincts, which are found across all
cultures. Chief amongst these are a dislike of snakes, a fear of falling,
and a hatred of popup windows. --Vlatko Juric-Kokic

"George Hewitt" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


>Desktop on cable 3 cannot even see the cable! Not a dicky bird.

If you bend the cable in a too small radius it will affect the signal.
Electricians tend to think a cable is a cable. Did he use a big
special device to test the cables? Those boxes are somewhat expensive
and most companies avoid buying one, not knowing that they can be
rented. You should always require a testing protocol if you let a
"prof" do the job. Otherwise you could have done it all alone.

>I took the laptop downstairs and plugged it into the working cable and it
>recognises the cable, but again does nothing!

It did not work with the working cable?
Then the cable is obviously not the cause.

>Is there anything that would affect the signal strength to the computer on
>cable 3 since it is further away? I know about the 100m rule but I haven't
>used 100m of cable to this point.

With Cat5e it should not matter how close the cables are to eachother.
If there were any electrical line too close to the cables though it
would matter. Another source of errors is the bending radius and
possible squeezes. Also the quality of the crimping does matter. See
if you can get those plastic caps on the plugs away and have a look at
the grounding. Is it accurately connected to the sheet metal of the
plug or is it even removed or loosely woud around the brackets of the
plug?


regards
André

> Have you checked that the cable wiring is correct?
> (You want "Straight-Through Wiring Using The 586A Standard" about 1/3
> of the way down the page:
>
<http://www.bluemax.net/techtips/netw...100TX/colorcod
estandards.htm>
> )
>
> Derek

Can't get into that page right now but we did check the wiring when we
couldn't find a problem. We had two test cables made up just to see what was
going on, one to the 586A and one to the electrician's own brand of wiring.
The electrician's own form worked but the 586A didn't. The working cable is
now between PC1 and the router.

In reply to Andre's post, no he didn't check it with a tester. I did ask if
he had one but he didn't have one for cat5 since he doesn't do much of this
sort of cabling (filling in for a mate of his while he was away). Elecs in
my area that are willing to do cat5 wiring are VERY hard to come by - we
were just happy to have somewhere there actually laying the stuff.

>>I took the laptop downstairs and plugged it into the working cable and it
>> recognises the cable, but again does nothing!
>
>It did not work with the working cable?
>Then the cable is obviously not the cause.

Sorry I didn't make myself clear. I think it could be a cable issue here
because the short (working) cable 1 did not work with the laptop, and the
long cable2 produced the same effect. The desktop on cable3 (exactly same
makeup as other cables) did not recognise anything. I got him to recrimp
them securely to see if that was an issue, no change.

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 21:47:53 +0100, "George Hewitt"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Can't get into that page right now but we did check the wiring when we
>couldn't find a problem. We had two test cables made up just to see what was
>going on, one to the 586A and one to the electrician's own brand of wiring.

<wince>

>The electrician's own form worked but the 586A didn't. The working cable is
>now between PC1 and the router.

>In reply to Andre's post, no he didn't check it with a tester. I did ask if
>he had one but he didn't have one for cat5 since he doesn't do much of this
>sort of cabling (filling in for a mate of his while he was away). Elecs in
>my area that are willing to do cat5 wiring are VERY hard to come by - we
>were just happy to have somewhere there actually laying the stuff.

All of this is suggesting that the problem lies in the crimping of the
RJ45's to the cable.

(As an aside, am I correct in reading this as you're running cables
directly between the pieces of equipment, without using some form of
wall mounted socket?)

Derek
--
"We're born with a number of powerful instincts, which are found across all
cultures. Chief amongst these are a dislike of snakes, a fear of falling,
and a hatred of popup windows. --Vlatko Juric-Kokic

>
> All of this is suggesting that the problem lies in the crimping of the
> RJ45's to the cable.

Hmm guess so. I'm planning on leaving it until the normal guy gets back from
his holidays and will get him to take a look at it.
>
> (As an aside, am I correct in reading this as you're running cables
> directly between the pieces of equipment, without using some form of
> wall mounted socket?)

Yes. Was cheaper and I didn't see the point. Unless there are advantages
here?

Cheers,
>
> Derek

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 19:32:03 +0100, "George Hewitt"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:



>Is there anything that would affect the signal strength to the computer on
>cable 3 since it is further away? I know about the 100m rule but I haven't
>used 100m of cable to this point.

No - but the wiring standard is important as the pins have to be
connected in the correct pairs. Also the cable should be terminated
in wall mounted connection boxes and patch cables used from those to
the devices. If the electrician has connected RJ45 plugs to the end
of the cables the likelihood is (especially as you mention "his"
standard) that:-

a. He has cocked up the wiring.
b. Solid core Cat5 is not designed to be used with plugs so the
connections as well as being wrong are possibly faulty (note even if
you get them to work there is a good chance they will fail quite
quickly as solid core cable fractures when flexed frequently and
don't form reliable contacts within the plug).

>Is there anything known about DIY cables

If done properly (which is simple) they work reliably first time.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

"George Hewitt" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:5AQ2b.4227$(E-Mail Removed):

>> (As an aside, am I correct in reading this as you're running
>> cables directly between the pieces of equipment, without using
>> some form of wall mounted socket?)
>
> Yes. Was cheaper and I didn't see the point. Unless there are
> advantages here?
>

It's actually much easier wiring up wall sockets because the
connections are (usually) colour-coded on the back of the socket. It
also only needs a cheap (~£1) punch-down tool rather than an RJ45
crimp tool (~£15).

However, the socket facias and boxes add to the cabling cost, plus
you'd need a UTP patch cable to connect each socket to its associated
equipment.

--
BRG
===
http://www.brgservices.co.uk/

> No - but the wiring standard is important as the pins have to be
> connected in the correct pairs. Also the cable should be terminated
> in wall mounted connection boxes and patch cables used from those to
> the devices. If the electrician has connected RJ45 plugs to the end
> of the cables the likelihood is (especially as you mention "his"
> standard) that:-
>
> a. He has cocked up the wiring.

I think I agree with him here in that surely as long as the pairs are in the
same places at both ends (which under his method they are) it will work
exactly the same way?

But I guess its faceplate and patch time...

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 23:46:15 +0100, Derek <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:



>You do that. Make sure all the cables end up wired to to 586A,
>otherwise the longer runs will give you trouble.

There is no difference (other than the colour of wires going to pins)
between 586A and 586B. Either can be used as long as you are
consistent throughout and don't mix them.

586B is usually preferred as most of the equipment such as patch
panels and sockets tends to come pre coded for 586B, not 586A.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/