can you have WEP and WPA on the same WAP?

can you have WEP and WPA on the same WAP?

I would like to get a WAP that supports the older wifi client cards
that aren't upgradable to WPA and as well support the newer wifi client
cards that are WPA-able.

If it isn't possible to have both WEP and WPA on the same WAP, do I just
buy two WAPs?

Thanks Joe
--
Joseph Mack NA3T EME(B,D), FM05lw North Carolina
jmack (at) wm7d (dot) net - azimuthal equidistant map
generator at http://www.wm7d.net/azproj.shtml
Homepage http://www.austintek.com/ It's GNU/Linux!

On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 15:00:38 +0000, mack spoketh

>can you have WEP and WPA on the same WAP?
>
>I would like to get a WAP that supports the older wifi client cards
>that aren't upgradable to WPA and as well support the newer wifi client
>cards that are WPA-able.
>
>If it isn't possible to have both WEP and WPA on the same WAP, do I just
>buy two WAPs?
>
>Thanks Joe

No, it's either WEP or WPA. If you need both, you'll need two WAPs.
Wouldn't it be better to replace the older wifi cards?

Lars M. Hansen
www.hansenonline.net
Remove "bad" from my e-mail address to contact me.
"If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?"

"Lars M. Hansen" wrote:

> >can you have WEP and WPA on the same WAP?

> No, it's either WEP or WPA. If you need both, you'll need two WAPs.
> Wouldn't it be better to replace the older wifi cards?

Thanks for your reply.

The setup I'm working on will be for random people with laptops.
I have to handle whatever people bring and I'm not in a position
to tell them that they have old gear and that they should upgrade :-)
My job is to get them linked and smile.

I personally have about 6 older wifi cards which I expected to have a
longer lifetime has turned out. I'm not exactly delighted at the prospect
of them being obsoleted.

Is this situation the result of some physical law that can't be contravened,
or is it that the manufacturers haven't written firmware to handle both
types of encryption, or the drivers for the cards don't handle it ...?

Thanks Joe

--
Joseph Mack NA3T EME(B,D), FM05lw North Carolina
jmack (at) wm7d (dot) net - azimuthal equidistant map
generator at http://www.wm7d.net/azproj.shtml
Homepage http://www.austintek.com/ It's GNU/Linux!

On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 18:35:44 +0000, mack spoketh

>"Lars M. Hansen" wrote:
>
>> >can you have WEP and WPA on the same WAP?
>
>> No, it's either WEP or WPA. If you need both, you'll need two WAPs.
>> Wouldn't it be better to replace the older wifi cards?
>
>Thanks for your reply.
>
>The setup I'm working on will be for random people with laptops.
>I have to handle whatever people bring and I'm not in a position
>to tell them that they have old gear and that they should upgrade :-)
>My job is to get them linked and smile.

For random people with random equipment, you'll have to go for the
lowest common denominator, which would be WEP.

>
>I personally have about 6 older wifi cards which I expected to have a
>longer lifetime has turned out. I'm not exactly delighted at the prospect
>of them being obsoleted.
>

I have 5 older computers, I'm not thrilled that they are obsolete, but
I'll have to live with it.

>
>Is this situation the result of some physical law that can't be contravened,
>or is it that the manufacturers haven't written firmware to handle both
>types of encryption, or the drivers for the cards don't handle it ...?
>
>Thanks Joe

An access point can only be configured with one setting for wireless
security. It's either no encryption, WEP or WPA. There are some
additional settings involving a RADIUS server, but that doesn't change
the encryption options available, it only adds authentication to the
process.



Lars M. Hansen
http://www.hansenonline.net
(replace 'badnews' with 'news' in e-mail address)

Taking a moment's reflection, mack mused:
|
| Is this situation the result of some physical law that can't be
| contravened, or is it that the manufacturers haven't written firmware to
| handle both types of encryption, or the drivers for the cards don't
| handle it ...?

From my understanding, there is something about the 11b architecture
that makes WPA more difficult. It's not impossible, since there are some
11b cards that support WPA, but (also from what I've read) those 11b
products that do not current support WPA will not be updated to support it.
Likely, though, that has more to do with marketing.

An AP could theoretically support both, although it makes no sense for a
client to do so. It would add complexity and cost. The AP would have to
keep a table associating MAC address with encryption type, and it would have
to consult the table for every transmitted frame.

There is no design reason why it can't be done, but there might be practical
reasons. WEP and WPA are often implemented in silicon in newer chipsets, The
table and decision-making logic would have to live in a driver, and the chip
interface would have to permit the encryption type to be passed to the
chipset for each frame. I have no hardware manuals for any chipsets, so I
don't know if that kind of interface exists. I suspect - but I don't know -
that the hardware is simply configured during driver initialization to run
WEP or WPA, so changing it on a frame-by-frame basis might imply a reconfig
for every frame. That almost certainly would be a performance disaster! The
only alternative I can think of would involve the AP doing all of the work
at the driver level, which would mean faster cpus and more fast memory.

So, if you can find this feature at all, it will be in expensive commercial
APs and routers. There would have to be a compelling commercial reason for
any vendor to add it, with its associated costs, and I don't think there is
one. At the low end of the price range (home/SOHO), the costs would push the
price too high. At the high end of the price range, the buying community can
easily afford equipment that supports WPA, either through upgrade or
replacement.

"mack" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Lars M. Hansen" wrote:
>
> > >can you have WEP and WPA on the same WAP?
>
> > No, it's either WEP or WPA. If you need both, you'll need two WAPs.
> > Wouldn't it be better to replace the older wifi cards?
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> The setup I'm working on will be for random people with laptops.
> I have to handle whatever people bring and I'm not in a position
> to tell them that they have old gear and that they should upgrade :-)
> My job is to get them linked and smile.
>
> I personally have about 6 older wifi cards which I expected to have a
> longer lifetime has turned out. I'm not exactly delighted at the prospect
> of them being obsoleted.
>
> Is this situation the result of some physical law that can't be
contravened,
> or is it that the manufacturers haven't written firmware to handle both
> types of encryption, or the drivers for the cards don't handle it ...?
>
> Thanks Joe
>
> --
> Joseph Mack NA3T EME(B,D), FM05lw North Carolina
> jmack (at) wm7d (dot) net - azimuthal equidistant map
> generator at http://www.wm7d.net/azproj.shtml
> Homepage http://www.austintek.com/ It's GNU/Linux!
>

On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 19:13:09 GMT, gary spoketh

>An AP could theoretically support both, although it makes no sense for a
>client to do so.

APs do support both WEP and WPA, however, you can't configure the AP to
_use_ both at the same time, which I believe is the OPs question.

Lars M. Hansen
www.hansenonline.net
Remove "bad" from my e-mail address to contact me.
"If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?"

Pardon me if I'm not understanding this one... but if you got a WEP signal
out there then that would be the signal that the hacker would break into.
All the WPA would be useless because a WEP signal would be in the air. The
more different signals you would have the more doors there are to get in.

"mack" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> can you have WEP and WPA on the same WAP?
>
> I would like to get a WAP that supports the older wifi client cards
> that aren't upgradable to WPA and as well support the newer wifi client
> cards that are WPA-able.
>
> If it isn't possible to have both WEP and WPA on the same WAP, do I just
> buy two WAPs?
>
> Thanks Joe
> --
> Joseph Mack NA3T EME(B,D), FM05lw North Carolina
> jmack (at) wm7d (dot) net - azimuthal equidistant map
> generator at http://www.wm7d.net/azproj.shtml
> Homepage http://www.austintek.com/ It's GNU/Linux!

"Lars M. Hansen" wrote:
>
> APs do support both WEP and WPA, however, you can't configure the AP to
> _use_ both at the same time, which I believe is the OPs question.

Thanks everyone, particularly Gary and Lars.

Joe

--
Joseph Mack NA3T EME(B,D), FM05lw North Carolina
jmack (at) wm7d (dot) net - azimuthal equidistant map
generator at http://www.wm7d.net/azproj.shtml
Homepage http://www.austintek.com/ It's GNU/Linux!

"Lars M. Hansen" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 19:13:09 GMT, gary spoketh
>
> >An AP could theoretically support both, although it makes no sense for a
> >client to do so.
>
> APs do support both WEP and WPA, however, you can't configure the AP to
> _use_ both at the same time, which I believe is the OPs question.

Apparently I didn't make it clear that I was talking about the difficulty of
supporting both schemes *concurrently*. Of course, newer chipsets and
drivers support both schemes. As I tried to explain, I think the choice is
made during initialization of the chipset, and never on a
per-transmitted-frame basis, which would be necessary to support dynamic
switching between schemes.

>
> Lars M. Hansen
> www.hansenonline.net
> Remove "bad" from my e-mail address to contact me.
> "If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?"