Can I by-pass my ISP to email?

The user interface and text-handling facilities of my
LinuxETHoberon is so nice, that I hate to have to paste
the text to something like `evolution` to send it,
especially since I fetch mail by LinuxETHoberon.

The first time my ISP introduced sendAuthorisation,
I modified my LinuxETHoberon to handle it. Then a
few years later the ISP used a different type of
sendAuthorisation. And I'm not interested to
modify my code again. The novelty had gone.

Some one said "use sendmail or equivalent to
bypass your ISP's mail-server".
Which sounds feasible.
If I've got an inet connection, I can ping any IP.
and telnet any IP. So I can talk to the recipient's
mail-server.

During the week I've only got access to a wireless
connection, for which I had to buy a win7 netbook,
because the wireless-terminal has no linux driver.
So there I can reluctantly use win7's emailer crap.

Since Win7 can telnet, I'd like to experiment, first just
telneting to my own gmail & non-gmail accounts.
And if that works I'll see about linux-sendmail to
bypass my weekend land-line ISP.

How would I do that?

OK, it's easy to telnet my non-gmail pop & smtp, since
I know the IPs, and have logs of doing it previously.
But how would I telnet my gmail account?
Or even telnet the gmail server?

Although apparently sendmail is a pain to setup,
perhaps that's easier than first trying some DNS to
get the IP of the email of the recipient?

Can I by-pass my ISP to email?

==TIA

NoHtmlMailsPlease wrote:

>
> During the week I've only got access to a wireless
> connection, for which I had to buy a win7 netbook,
> because the wireless-terminal has no linux driver.

Pull another one.

This total fabrication will never fly.

And wehn you claim something about linux, make sure the next time that you
have actually seen a linux machine running

Don't you wintrolls have a life?

On 2011-08-11, NoHtmlMailsPlease <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> The user interface and text-handling facilities of my
> LinuxETHoberon is so nice, that I hate to have to paste
> the text to something like `evolution` to send it,
> especially since I fetch mail by LinuxETHoberon.
>
> The first time my ISP introduced sendAuthorisation,
> I modified my LinuxETHoberon to handle it. Then a
> few years later the ISP used a different type of
> sendAuthorisation. And I'm not interested to
> modify my code again. The novelty had gone.
>
> Some one said "use sendmail or equivalent to
> bypass your ISP's mail-server".
> Which sounds feasible.

Short answer: it isn't.

Long answer: it is _if_

1) You've got a static IP address, and

2) You set up an MX record for the address from which you're sending.

3) Nobody else at your ISP ever does something dumb and get your IP
address range blacklisted.

> If I've got an inet connection, I can ping any IP.
> and telnet any IP. So I can talk to the recipient's
> mail-server.

Many/most e-mail servers will ignore mail sent from dynamic IP
addresses, from IP addresses that don't belong to machines pointed to
by MX records, from IP addresses in blacklisted ranges that contain a
lot of 'bots, and so on.

I used to use qmail (a sendmail replacement) configure to send mail
directly to the destination. It stopped working consistently years
and years ago because of restrictions many servers are placing on
inbound mail.

> Can I by-pass my ISP to email?

Yes. You don't need to use your ISP, but you do need to use a "real"
relay server that the rest of the world trusts. It's possible, but
difficult to set one up yourself. It's easier to use Google's (though
there are issues with using arbitrary "from" addresses). You could
also sign up for an account with some other provider that provides
e-mail service (panix.com, et.).

--
Grant

On Thu, 11 Aug 2011 20:54:54 +0200
"NoHtmlMailsPlease" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> LinuxETHoberon
> ...
> Some one said "use sendmail or equivalent to
> bypass your ISP's mail-server".
> Which sounds feasible.

If you are on a linux box, you also have the option
to offload the authentication to a local MTA.

I'm using ssmtp on several gentoo boxes to this effect.

If your system can't deal with calling sendmail directly,
but requires a SMTP connection, you can still use something
like postfix, exim or sendmail, listening on 127.0.0.1 only,
to receive unauthenticated messages from localhost only,
while using your ISP's smarthost/mailhub with authentication
to get the mail off your box.

HTH,
s.

Hello,

Grant Edwards a écrit :
>
> Many/most e-mail servers will ignore mail sent [...]
> from IP addresses that don't belong to machines pointed to
> by MX records,

How do you know that somewhere in the DNS space there is an MX record
which points to a host name which points to a given IP address ?

On Thu, 2011-08-11, NoHtmlMailsPlease wrote:
> The user interface and text-handling facilities of my
> LinuxETHoberon is so nice, that I hate to have to paste
> the text to something like `evolution` to send it,
> especially since I fetch mail by LinuxETHoberon.

What's "a LinuxETHoberon"? I remember hearing about the Oberon
environment, but that was 20 years ago. I will assume below that it
is (among other things) a mail client.

> The first time my ISP introduced sendAuthorisation,
> I modified my LinuxETHoberon to handle it. Then a
> few years later the ISP used a different type of
> sendAuthorisation. And I'm not interested to
> modify my code again. The novelty had gone.

Your only realistic options are

- Your mail program relays mail to your ISP's server. Then it has to
support whatever unfortunate authentication mechanisms your ISP
chooses to use. (Mine chooses none: it relays all mail which comes
from inside the ISP's network.)

- Your mail program can feed mail into the MTA of your Linux system
(sendmail, postfix, exim ...) and let that one be resposible for
relaying through the ISP's server. Any decent MTA has support for
your ISP's authentication mechanism.

If "LinuxETHoberon" cannot do either of those and you don't want to
hack it, you're out of luck.

/Jorgen

--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .

"Dave {Reply Address In.Sig}" <noone$$@llondel.org> wrote in message
news:9rcih8-(E-Mail Removed)...
> NoHtmlMailsPlease wrote:
>
>>
>> Although apparently sendmail is a pain to setup,
>> perhaps that's easier than first trying some DNS to
>> get the IP of the email of the recipient?
>>
>> Can I by-pass my ISP to email?
>>
> The acid test is often whether you're on a dynamic or static IP address.
> Many mail servers won't accept traffic from dynamic IP addresses outside
> their own allocation. I run sendmail on a static IP address and don't have
> any problem.

I get an IP dynamically

> Some ISPs also block port 25 outbound from their own address
> space, or intercept it and redirect it to their own servers.
> --
Does that mean that when I telnet <IP> : port 25,
or any IPort
my ISP might not allow it?
That would mean that my basic assumption that I can ping anything is wrong.
When I previously extended my mailer to handle SendAuthorisation, I used
telnet repeatedly to test it -- obviously; and got no indication of
restrictions
on telnet -- yet.
What does an ISP mean that they can "provide you with a basic 8nix account"?

Thanks,

Chris Glur.

"Stefan Schmiedl" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Thu, 11 Aug 2011 20:54:54 +0200
> "NoHtmlMailsPlease" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> LinuxETHoberon
>> ...
>> Some one said "use sendmail or equivalent to
>> bypass your ISP's mail-server".
>> Which sounds feasible.
>
> If you are on a linux box, you also have the option
> to offload the authentication to a local MTA.
>
Yes I started investigating that possibility, and afterwards I even
noticed from the code that OberonV4 [less preferred than LEO for me]
does pass the text to `sendmail`.

> I'm using ssmtp on several gentoo boxes to this effect.
>
> If your system can't deal with calling sendmail directly,
> but requires a SMTP connection, you can still use something
> like postfix, exim or sendmail, listening on 127.0.0.1 only,
> to receive unauthenticated messages from localhost only,
> while using your ISP's smarthost/mailhub with authentication
> to get the mail off your box.
>
I'd have to to look in my linux-files for my log-details, but
I failed to confirm:
1. LEO can communicate with 127.0.0.1
2. 127.0.0.1 can communicate with sendmail

OK, now I remember !
LEO, altho 'running on Linux [being a port of standAlone
Oberon] doesn't use the *nix tcp-stack. It's got a `ppp` module
which talks to a serial-port module which talks to the dial-up modem.

The whole intention of 'hiding the complexity' has succeeded in
fooling me.

As a great believer in 'successive refinement' I note that by just
pasteing/importing my LEO composed text into the <what's its name>
mailer, I'm simulating <sending it to a MTA> so that should work.

The problem is that I don't get any feed-back from `sendmail` and
my connection/testing costs are high.

> HTH,
> s.
>

"Jorgen Grahn" <grahn+(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:slrnj4doqg.gtj.grahn+(E-Mail Removed). ..
> On Thu, 2011-08-11, NoHtmlMailsPlease wrote:
>> The user interface and text-handling facilities of my
>> LinuxETHoberon is so nice, that I hate to have to paste
>> the text to something like `evolution` to send it,
>> especially since I fetch mail by LinuxETHoberon.
>
> What's "a LinuxETHoberon"? I remember hearing about the Oberon
> environment, but that was 20 years ago. I will assume below that it
> is (among other things) a mail client.
>
In 199x when my ISP said that I couldn't use Win3.1 and would have
to buy W95, I said screw-you and looked at linux and Oberon.
Oberon [without the gadgets extension] could be installed from
one 1M4:fd0 and contained pop3, smtp ..etc. for X86.
Oberon the descendant of Modula ..Pascal was developed by Wirth
at the top tech-institute in Switzerland. It's got a brilliant user
interface, which acmelan9 -> wilyublicDomain copied somewhat.

>> The first time my ISP introduced sendAuthorisation,
>> I modified my LinuxETHoberon to handle it. Then a
>> few years later the ISP used a different type of
>> sendAuthorisation. And I'm not interested to
>> modify my code again. The novelty had gone.
>
> Your only realistic options are
>
> - Your mail program relays mail to your ISP's server. Then it has to
> support whatever unfortunate authentication mechanisms your ISP
> chooses to use. (Mine chooses none: it relays all mail which comes
> from inside the ISP's network.)
>
> - Your mail program can feed mail into the MTA of your Linux system
> (sendmail, postfix, exim ...) and let that one be resposible for
> relaying through the ISP's server. Any decent MTA has support for
> your ISP's authentication mechanism.
>
OK, that's what I'd like to try. But as explained, I can't feed into the
'stack'.
I have to feed in the plain-text, to some linux-system.
What I need is a testing procedure:
1. feedback/confirmation that 'linux-system' has correctly received the
various fields: to, from, subject, mail-body.
2. feedback/confirm could be if/when I receive self-mailed to my gmail.

BTW I used to Cc from ISP-accountA to ISP-accountB, as a self-check.
But after the ISP changed its SendAuth protocol these self-checks falsely
confirmed. Only after months of failed self-check to my EXTERNAL gmail,
did I realise that <you know what>.

> If "LinuxETHoberon" cannot do either of those and you don't want to
> hack it, you're out of luck.
>
So now that I've only got access to my landline occasionally.
I had to buy a Win-capable device to access the available wireless
connection.
So in the end M$ screwed me.

> /Jorgen
>

On 2011-08-11, NoHtmlMailsPlease <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> The user interface and text-handling facilities of my
> LinuxETHoberon is so nice, that I hate to have to paste
> the text to something like `evolution` to send it,
> especially since I fetch mail by LinuxETHoberon.
>
> The first time my ISP introduced sendAuthorisation,
> I modified my LinuxETHoberon to handle it. Then a
> few years later the ISP used a different type of
> sendAuthorisation. And I'm not interested to
> modify my code again. The novelty had gone.
>
> Some one said "use sendmail or equivalent to
> bypass your ISP's mail-server".
> Which sounds feasible.
> If I've got an inet connection, I can ping any IP.
> and telnet any IP. So I can talk to the recipient's
> mail-server.

So you can send email to any machine. Whether they will accept it is
another matter. Some systems are picky as to whom they accept mail from.

HOwever receiveing mail is another matter. If you have a permanant IP
address and an always on machine than you can publish your email address
using that address as the MX entry in someone's dns tables to receive
mail Otherwise you are going to have someone else receive you mail for
you, and you pick it up somehow (as you do not with your ISP).


>
> During the week I've only got access to a wireless
> connection, for which I had to buy a win7 netbook,
> because the wireless-terminal has no linux driver.

No idea what this means. The linux driver is needed for th ewireless
card on your laptop/netbook. I have no idea what a "wireless-terminal"
is.


> So there I can reluctantly use win7's emailer crap.
>
> Since Win7 can telnet, I'd like to experiment, first just
> telneting to my own gmail & non-gmail accounts.
> And if that works I'll see about linux-sendmail to
> bypass my weekend land-line ISP.
>
> How would I do that?
>
> OK, it's easy to telnet my non-gmail pop & smtp, since
> I know the IPs, and have logs of doing it previously.
> But how would I telnet my gmail account?
> Or even telnet the gmail server?
>
> Although apparently sendmail is a pain to setup,
> perhaps that's easier than first trying some DNS to
> get the IP of the email of the recipient?

Most linux distros use postfix instead of sendmail


>
> Can I by-pass my ISP to email?

Yes. See above.

>
>==TIA
>