Can excessive downloading mess up the router?

Hi everyone,

I basically need to know one thing: if someone downloads several
gigabytes every night via a shared wireless connection, is that in
itself capable of messing up the wireless router to the point where it
has to be set-up all over again?

The situation is this: me and my boyfriend live together and we
recently had a tenant move into the spare room. All 3 of us divide the
cable broadband costs between us, therefore all 3 of us have a right to
use the connection. We have a Linksys wireless router ( WRT54G ) for a
2MB broadband connection, where our ISP imposes no limitations on our
download quota. My boyfriend does not have wireless so he just uses a
cable going direct from the router into his PC. Myself and the tenant
share the wireless connection.

I've noticed however that ever since he moved in, we seem to have
constant connection problems with the router. Firstly, I had to endure
slow web browsing because he was constantly using 'Bit Torrent'
programs to download huge files. Then our connection died a couple of
times and it was blamed on our ISP or the router being unplugged
accidentally. But now it's happening every couple of days.
Frustratingly, each time it happens, the only thing that fixes it is to
reset the router and re-configure it again using the Linksys CD,
creating a new SSID and passwords. Then it works fine again for
another couple of days and then it's back to 'Limited or no connection'
messages and then finally it goes dead. When all this happens, the
actual internet connection still works fine when the main ISP cable is
removed from the router and plugged directly into a PC, so the problem
is definitely happening within the router, not from our ISP.

After resetting the router 3 days ago I was exasperated to see the
connection dying again last night - but it happened to be the one night
where our new tenant had been at his PC all evening. A bit
suspicious, I went into my Linksys admin control panel, and I could see
(to my anger) that our new tenant was now using TWO computers to
download files (his laptop and his PC) - I can see in the log which
ports he's using and they are all associated with those bit torrent
programs. (And it's definitely him, not an unknown wireless
free-loader, because firstly both computers have his name and secondly
we have a WEP key/hidden network - so hacking is unlikely).

So once again, the router is screwed and my patience is wearing thin.
The thing is - before we have the inevitable 'house meeting', I'd like
to be a little more clued up before I make any accusations - because he
takes advantage of my wireless-ignorance. Firstly, it was already
accepted that when one person downloads large files (which 95% of the
time is our bandwidth-happy tenant) the other 2 users inevitably suffer
from a slower browsing speed. But having to actually reset the router
now because of this is way too much.

I want to be able to 'prove' that his excessive downloading is jamming
the router and this means we have to reset it each time. I have to
show that his greed is spoiling the connection for everyone else and he
needs to cut it out - but I want to have my facts straight first.

So is this possible? Can excessive downloading mess up the wireless
router?

Thanks in advance,

A weary Theresa

Theresa wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I basically need to know one thing: if someone downloads several
> gigabytes every night via a shared wireless connection, is that in
> itself capable of messing up the wireless router to the point where it
> has to be set-up all over again?
>
> The situation is this: me and my boyfriend live together and we
> recently had a tenant move into the spare room. All 3 of us divide the
> cable broadband costs between us, therefore all 3 of us have a right to
> use the connection. We have a Linksys wireless router ( WRT54G ) for a
> 2MB broadband connection, where our ISP imposes no limitations on our
> download quota. My boyfriend does not have wireless so he just uses a
> cable going direct from the router into his PC. Myself and the tenant
> share the wireless connection.
>
> I've noticed however that ever since he moved in, we seem to have
> constant connection problems with the router. Firstly, I had to endure
> slow web browsing because he was constantly using 'Bit Torrent'
> programs to download huge files. Then our connection died a couple of
> times and it was blamed on our ISP or the router being unplugged
> accidentally. But now it's happening every couple of days.
> Frustratingly, each time it happens, the only thing that fixes it is to
> reset the router and re-configure it again using the Linksys CD,
> creating a new SSID and passwords. Then it works fine again for
> another couple of days and then it's back to 'Limited or no connection'
> messages and then finally it goes dead. When all this happens, the
> actual internet connection still works fine when the main ISP cable is
> removed from the router and plugged directly into a PC, so the problem
> is definitely happening within the router, not from our ISP.
>
> After resetting the router 3 days ago I was exasperated to see the
> connection dying again last night - but it happened to be the one night
> where our new tenant had been at his PC all evening. A bit
> suspicious, I went into my Linksys admin control panel, and I could see
> (to my anger) that our new tenant was now using TWO computers to
> download files (his laptop and his PC) - I can see in the log which
> ports he's using and they are all associated with those bit torrent
> programs. (And it's definitely him, not an unknown wireless
> free-loader, because firstly both computers have his name and secondly
> we have a WEP key/hidden network - so hacking is unlikely).
>
> So once again, the router is screwed and my patience is wearing thin.
> The thing is - before we have the inevitable 'house meeting', I'd like
> to be a little more clued up before I make any accusations - because he
> takes advantage of my wireless-ignorance. Firstly, it was already
> accepted that when one person downloads large files (which 95% of the
> time is our bandwidth-happy tenant) the other 2 users inevitably suffer
> from a slower browsing speed. But having to actually reset the router
> now because of this is way too much.
>
> I want to be able to 'prove' that his excessive downloading is jamming
> the router and this means we have to reset it each time. I have to
> show that his greed is spoiling the connection for everyone else and he
> needs to cut it out - but I want to have my facts straight first.
>
> So is this possible? Can excessive downloading mess up the wireless
> router?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> A weary Theresa
>
You might want to look into using alternate drivers on your router. The
dd-wrt drivers (version 23 currently) let you use QOS to allocate
resources (you can give torrent downloads a lower priority). You can
also set number of connections and connection timeouts to improve response.

Note: If you are using a WRT54G version 5 router, you can't load
alternate drivers. If the serial number on your router does NOT end in
'CDFB', you can.

http://dd-wrt.com/

"Theresa" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...

[snip]

Two points:

First, Your tennant's use of bittorrent will hog your bandwidth, and you can
get around this by messing with QoS in the router's configuration pages (at
http://192.168.1.1), under Applications & Gaming, I think. You can specify
which IPs or MAC addresses get priority.

Secondly, Disconnects sounds like other 2.4GHz interference, so you might
want to Google on how to minimise that .

In answer to your question, I shouldn't think high levels of internet
activity will kill your router!

Thanks both of you for the suggestions. .. I've followed your advice
and this is what I done:

I setup the router again, all working as usual, and I went into the
Applications & Gaming and put HTTP on "High Priority" and manually
added port 6881 and put it on Low priority..

Hopefully this means that browsing will be better and Bittorrent will
not affect it ... did I do right?

__spc__ wrote:
> "Theresa" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
>
> [snip]
>
> Two points:
>
> First, Your tennant's use of bittorrent will hog your bandwidth, and you can
> get around this by messing with QoS in the router's configuration pages (at
> http://192.168.1.1), under Applications & Gaming, I think. You can specify
> which IPs or MAC addresses get priority.
>
> Secondly, Disconnects sounds like other 2.4GHz interference, so you might
> want to Google on how to minimise that .
>
> In answer to your question, I shouldn't think high levels of internet
> activity will kill your router!

Theresa wrote:
> Thanks both of you for the suggestions. .. I've followed your advice
> and this is what I done:
>
> I setup the router again, all working as usual, and I went into the
> Applications & Gaming and put HTTP on "High Priority" and manually
> added port 6881 and put it on Low priority..
>
> Hopefully this means that browsing will be better and Bittorrent will
> not affect it ... did I do right?

Might be best not to mention this to the tenant though.

If he realises, he could operate BitTorrent on port 80 rather than 6881
which means his traffic would get priority

"Theresa" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
> Hi everyone,
>
> I basically need to know one thing: if someone downloads several
> gigabytes every night via a shared wireless connection, is that in
> itself capable of messing up the wireless router to the point where it
> has to be set-up all over again?
>
> The situation is this: me and my boyfriend live together and we
> recently had a tenant move into the spare room. All 3 of us divide the
> cable broadband costs between us, therefore all 3 of us have a right to
> use the connection. We have a Linksys wireless router ( WRT54G ) for a
> 2MB broadband connection, where our ISP imposes no limitations on our
> download quota. My boyfriend does not have wireless so he just uses a
> cable going direct from the router into his PC. Myself and the tenant
> share the wireless connection.
>
> I've noticed however that ever since he moved in, we seem to have
> constant connection problems with the router. Firstly, I had to endure
> slow web browsing because he was constantly using 'Bit Torrent'
> programs to download huge files. Then our connection died a couple of
> times and it was blamed on our ISP or the router being unplugged
> accidentally. But now it's happening every couple of days.
> Frustratingly, each time it happens, the only thing that fixes it is to
> reset the router and re-configure it again using the Linksys CD,
> creating a new SSID and passwords. Then it works fine again for
> another couple of days and then it's back to 'Limited or no connection'
> messages and then finally it goes dead. When all this happens, the
> actual internet connection still works fine when the main ISP cable is
> removed from the router and plugged directly into a PC, so the problem
> is definitely happening within the router, not from our ISP.

I find if I uses Azerous from one machine on my wireless network the other
PCs' internet access grinds to a halt, as I am using two routers I haven't
quite cracked port forwarding yet!
>
> After resetting the router 3 days ago I was exasperated to see the
> connection dying again last night - but it happened to be the one night
> where our new tenant had been at his PC all evening. A bit
> suspicious, I went into my Linksys admin control panel, and I could see
> (to my anger) that our new tenant was now using TWO computers to
> download files (his laptop and his PC) - I can see in the log which
> ports he's using and they are all associated with those bit torrent
> programs. (And it's definitely him, not an unknown wireless
> free-loader, because firstly both computers have his name and secondly
> we have a WEP key/hidden network - so hacking is unlikely).

Hiding the SSID is not a good idea as.... a. any half serious hacker will
have the ability to find it, and.... b.the chances of interference is higher
because other users can't see yours,
also quote from a recent post
'There's a known fault with some APs and cards that means they lose
connection if the SSID is hidden.
and
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/index.php?p=43


snip

Des

"Theresa" <(E-Mail Removed)> hath wroth:

>I basically need to know one thing: if someone downloads several
>gigabytes every night via a shared wireless connection, is that in
>itself capable of messing up the wireless router to the point where it
>has to be set-up all over again?
(...)
>( WRT54G ) for a
>2MB broadband connection,
(...)

Very nice description. Some questions:
- Which hardware version WRT54G and what version firmware?
Is the firmware the latest version?
- When you say you use the Linksys CD, so you mean that you're
using SES to setup the router?
- Is the router really totally cleared and back to defaults after
one of these incidents? The limited connectivity message implies
that the DHCP server in the router is not working, which means
that it is NOT being cleared, but being trashed instead. See below
for testing proceedure.

I general, there is nothing in the content or traffic that will hang
or crash a router. In reality, there are subtle problems with many
routers that can cause problems. None that I know require that the
router be setup from scratch or are capeable of affecting the
settings. I do know of an obscure bit pattern that will send the
Broadcom ethernet switch into diagnostic mode, but the chances of that
happening regularly are zero.

Some really obscure possibilities worth checking:
1. Loose or excessively sensitive reset button.
2. Nearby radio transmitter. I've reset a BEFW11s4 router with my 5
watt UHF handheld radio.
3. Change the router password and do NOT tell your neighbor. He
might be tinkering with the QoS setting to improve his share of the
bandwidth.
4. Go to:
http://www.pcflank.com/exploits.htm
and run the router exploits test. These are various attacks on
routers some of which can hang a router. I don't know if they can
actually reset a router but it would be an interesting test.
5. Overheating wall wart power supply. The WRT54G can handle a large
variation in power supply output voltage, but apparently can't handle
much in the way of power supply noise. It should be 12VDC 1000ma for
the current models of WRT4G.
6. Turn off remote administration. You may have someone tinkering
from the internet side.
7. Any possibility that there is more than one DHCP server on your
system (including the neighbors)? A 2nd DHCP server would confuse
your clients sufficiently to make it APPEAR that you don't have
connectivity. Power cycling the WRT54G would not fix that.
8. BitTorrent might be using excessive router resources. See below.

That being said, I suggest you have a talk with your neighbor and have
him bring his checkbook. You're paying for a 2Mbit/sec DSL connection
and he is using 100% of it. BitTorrent is a very bandwidth unfriendly
system that will use ALL of the bandwidth available, both in and out.
I'm rather suprised that you are able to even use your DSL line when
he's running BitTorrent. BitTorrent will also open as many streams
(sockets) as possible. This what hangs some routers. The router
tables were never intended or tested for opening hundreds of
simultaneous streams. The number of connections and streams can be
limited in your neighbors BitTorrent client software, so I suggest you
advise him of the problem he might be causeing. However, this would
only hang the router, not clear all the settings. Whatever his
surfing habits, if you must tolerate this bandwidth hog, at least have
him pay his "fair share" of the use. Otherwise, go into the QoS
section of the router and configure his available bandwidth to less
than half based on whatever criteria you find useful.

I suggest you determine the degree to which one of these hangs or
resets really affects your router. I don't believe that you have to
setup the router from scratch. Try this proceedure:
1. Wait for it to hang. Unscrew both antennas to keep your neighbor
off the WRT54G. Do NOT disconnect the power.
2. Unplug the CAT5 cable to your boyfriends desktop. Wait about 10
seconds. Plug it back in. Test for connectivity with:
http://192.168.1.1
This usually resets the client side ethernet and requests a new DHCP
lease. If not, try:
Start -> Run -> cmd <enter>
IPCONFIG /RELEASE
(wait about 10 seconds)
IPCONFIG /RENEW
If not, try rebooting his computer. If this works, try the internet.
If everything is back to normal, then dive into the router setup at:
http://192.168.1.1
and see if anything has been changed or trashed. If it shows all the
settings at their default value, then other than the obscure
possibilities previously listed, I have no clue. However, if the
setting are still there, then your router is NOT being reset to
defaults and does NOT require setup from scratch.

3. If the above does NOT work, try the above cerimony after
disconnecting the power on the router for about 10 seconds. If the
router has been reset to defaults, the DHCP server should be
functional and deliver an IP address to the client. You may need to
reboot your boyfriends computer to get this to work. If you can get
an IP address try:
http://192.168.1.1
and look at the various pages of setup. DO NOT USE THE CDROM!!!!
Are the settings back to defaults or are they the same as you
previously have setup? If they are the same as before, the router is
only being hung, not reset to defaults.

We can dive deeper after you determine if the router settings have
been left alone, trashed, or reset to defaults.

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"Theresa" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>I basically need to know one thing: if someone downloads several
>gigabytes every night via a shared wireless connection, is that in
>itself capable of messing up the wireless router to the point where it
>has to be set-up all over again?

Your new roommate is definitely abusing a shared resource, I'd tell
him to either limit his client bandwidth to 1/3 of your DSL bandwidth
(up _and_ down), or get his own DSL line. You'll at least get better
response time, though it may not stop the crashing.

I've definitely seen Aezurus(sp?) crash routers, including the WRT54G,
but power cycling them brings them back (until the next crash). It
looks like even limiting the bandwidth and number of connections in
the BitTorrent client doesn't help with the crashing, as you'll still
get bazillions of connection attempts from external clients that the
router has to deal with (and can't).

Now go back and re-read Jeff's post and follow his troubleshooting
steps. 8*)

Theresa <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> All 3 of us divide the cable broadband costs between us, therefore all 3
> of us have a right to use the connection. We have a Linksys wireless
> router ( WRT54G ) for a 2MB broadband connection, where our ISP imposes no
> limitations on our download quota.

But your cable ISP might have a secret quota on uploading, which is
something that BitTorrent "clients" also do a lot of. Your tenant's
online activities might look to the cable company like you're running a
server -- which is exactly what you're doing, thanks to your tenant. ISP
areements or acceptable use policies sometimes explicitly forbid running
servers on consumer accounts. Even without an explicit policy, some
cable ISPs have been known to discourage servers on consumer accounts by
shutting down a connection after a prolonged period of flat-out
uploading.


> When all this happens, the actual internet connection still works fine
> when the main ISP cable is removed from the router and plugged directly
> into a PC, so the problem is definitely happening within the router, not
> from our ISP.

Well, your router is the prime suspect; but the cable modem knows (from
the differing hardware addresses) when you unplug it from the router and
plug it into a computer, and it might reset itself on that event.
Likewise, rebooting the router may also trigger a reset of the cable
modem, restoring your Internet connection.

When you say that your "connection" dies every few days, it sounds like
you mean that it's just your Internet connectivity that is lost. The
router hasn't really crashed if you can still configure it. Check the
its information pages to see what's happening to the router's WAN
connection during these incidents.

In addition to the nuisance you're currently experiencing, your tenant's
activities might bring on other woes. It's extremely unlikely that the
RIAA or MPAA will sic their lawyers on you, but your ISP might take
steps. Maybe it already is.

__spec__ wrote:
> "Theresa" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
>
> [snip]
>
> Two points:
>
> First, Your tennant's use of bittorrent will hog your bandwidth, and you can
> get around this by messing with QoS in the router's configuration pages (at
> http://192.168.1.1), under Applications & Gaming, I think. You can specify
> which IPs or MAC addresses get priority.
>
> Secondly, Disconnects sounds like other 2.4GHz interference, so you might
> want to Google on how to minimise that .
>
> In answer to your question, I shouldn't think high levels of internet
> activity will kill your router!
>
>
Unless, that is, it's overheating.