How can BT tell the # of actual users? Also service levels?

BT offer a "single PC" BB package. I spoke to them yesterday and they
say they have software to detect multiple users. I asked how can they
tell, given that they even give people a NAT router which conceals all
stuff behind it? They said they can still tell, and kick people off.

I suppose they could detect usage which is unlikely to come from a
single *human* user, e.g. concurrent HTTP sessions. But they could
come from a piece of software.... like a www browser!! Perhaps
concurrent POP sessions?

So, how can they tell?

I am after two fixed IPs, and no restriction on the # of PCs. In
reality, it will be very light usage, although we will be running a
www and email server on the end of it.

The other thing is whether going to BT for BB is likely to get a
better service than using another BB ISP.

AFAIK, the only physical presence of another ISP is that ISP's
building, plus a fibre connection from them to BT. After that,
everything is over the BT network anyway. And given that the ISP will
have a very big incentive to keep their fibre to BT going at all
costs, I don't see how *BT* BB will be less likely to fail than
somebody else's BB.

I have to buy an analog line anyway (have 4xISDN at present which we
need for other stuff) and for £3/qtr I can get a 4hr response time
from BT on the analog line (only). Nobody will offer any response
level on BB, it seems, so what is the chance of BB failing but the
underlying analog line still working?

The ISPs I am looking at are Clara (currently use them with a 64k
dial-up and they are generally up OK, if unresponsive to customer
service issues) and Onyx (who I have used for about 10 years for www
hosting).

Any comments would be appreciated.


Peter.
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On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:15:06 +0100, (E-Mail Removed) (Peter) wrote:

>
>BT offer a "single PC" BB package. I spoke to them yesterday and they
>say they have software to detect multiple users. I asked how can they
>tell, given that they even give people a NAT router which conceals all
>stuff behind it? They said they can still tell, and kick people off.
>
>I suppose they could detect usage which is unlikely to come from a
>single *human* user, e.g. concurrent HTTP sessions. But they could
>come from a piece of software.... like a www browser!! Perhaps
>concurrent POP sessions?
>
>So, how can they tell?

Sequence numbering on the packets is one indication. While it's not
going to be 100% conclusive it will (especially if Windows is the OS
in use) be indicative of more than one TCP/IP stack in use. ie there's
more than one machine behind the NAT.

Why they should give a damn is another matter entirely.
--
John Naismith

Peter <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> I am after two fixed IPs, and no restriction on the # of PCs. In
> reality, it will be very light usage, although we will be running a
> www and email server on the end of it.

PlusNet will offer two static IPs as part of their unrestricted BB
packages. I don't know about other providers.

> The other thing is whether going to BT for BB is likely to get a
> better service than using another BB ISP.

No. The general consensus appears to be that there are better ISPs
around. Check out adslguide.org.uk for details.

> AFAIK, the only physical presence of another ISP is that ISP's
> building, plus a fibre connection from them to BT. After that,
> everything is over the BT network anyway.

ADSL gets you from your premises to the ISP. After that there's the
ISP's equipment (routers, proxies, caches, mail servers, and whatnot),
and after that there's the connection to "The Internet" (whatever you
like to define that as).

> And given that the ISP will
> have a very big incentive to keep their fibre to BT going at all
> costs, I don't see how *BT* BB will be less likely to fail than
> somebody else's BB.

Ah. BT Broadband is not BT Openworld is not
BT-the-ADSL-transport-layer-provider. Honest.

> Nobody will offer any response level on BB, it seems

Yes, that's right (except *possibly* Andrews & Arnold), as the ADSL
layer is not under the direct control of any single ISP (including BT).

> so what is the chance of BB failing but the underlying analog line
> still working?

Fair.

> The ISPs I am looking at are Clara (currently use them with a 64k
> dial-up and they are generally up OK, if unresponsive to customer
> service issues)

Surely that's a problem when you have an issue? I'm generally very happy
with PlusNet (I've been with them just about a year for BB; before that I
used Demon, Freeserve, and UKU for analogue dialup), and would be happy
to recommend them to you.

Chris

chris-(E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>ADSL gets you from your premises to the ISP. After that there's the
>ISP's equipment (routers, proxies, caches, mail servers, and whatnot),
>and after that there's the connection to "The Internet" (whatever you
>like to define that as).

Surely, ADSL is just the data encoding method used on the local loop.
From the local exchange, all the way back through BT's network, it is
ATM, 155mbits/sec. A neighbouring business has just got 2mbit/sec DSL
put in - cost them a fortune but it is just a different box at the
local exchange. I don't think the ISP knows any different.

Yes, the ISP can fall over but they have a big incentive to get back
up. Whereas if I get a problem between (or in) the local exchange and
my premises, absolutely nobody will fix it unless I complain and it
will have to be BT doing the work because all the equipment is BT's.


Peter.
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On 12 Aug 2004 in uk.telecom.broadband, Peter wrote:

>From the local exchange, all the way back through BT's network, it is

>Whereas if I get a problem between (or in) the local exchange and
>my premises, absolutely nobody will fix it unless I complain and it
>will have to be BT doing the work because all the equipment is BT's.

There are options using other equipment than BT's network. Certainly
not available nationwide, but Easynet and Bulldog have their own kit
in some exchanges. Anyway, the general advice is that you will find
better deals looking around... There have also been comments which
are positive about BT's services (under their several brandings, in
that you can get BT Broadband or BT Yahoo! Broadband depending on
what you are after. I don't remember seeing either listed in the
'top 10' at ADSLguide.org but maybe I just didn't spot the month(s)
where they managed it. Speed isn't everything, of course, and you
might want a fixed IP address or to use some other facilities which
another ISP offers... Down to you to choose. Good luck with BT !!


--
PlusNet <http://tinyurl.com/24ymz> - I recommend them and save some cash.

chris-(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>ADSL gets you from your premises to the ISP. After that there's the
>ISP's equipment (routers, proxies, caches, mail servers, and whatnot),
>and after that there's the connection to "The Internet" (whatever you
>like to define that as).

Peter <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Surely, ADSL is just the data encoding method used on the local loop.
> From the local exchange, all the way back through BT's network, it is
> ATM, 155mbits/sec.

Yes. From your questions I figured it was better to simplify that part
of the description, though, and call the entire DSL/ATM bit "ADSL".

Chris