Bundled and LLU, what does it all mean?

I often hear the terms, bundled and un-bundled and LLU etc., as regards
broadband and some ISPs.

I'm guessing it's when the particular ISP use their own cables at the
exchange, so, you pay the ISP directly for line rental and not BT, I can't
see though, how this applies to the actual line from the exchange to the
house, unless I'm on the wrong track entirely!

Can someone explain please?


Brian (Slaithwaite, Huddersfield)

That Man! wrote:
> I often hear the terms, bundled and un-bundled and LLU etc., as
> regards broadband and some ISPs.
>
> I'm guessing it's when the particular ISP use their own cables at the
> exchange, so, you pay the ISP directly for line rental and not BT, I
> can't see though, how this applies to the actual line from the
> exchange to the house, unless I'm on the wrong track entirely!
>
> Can someone explain please?

This is a good place to start


http://www.thinkbroadband.com/



Peter Crosland

"Peter Crosland" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> That Man! wrote:
>> I often hear the terms, bundled and un-bundled and LLU etc., as
>> regards broadband and some ISPs.
>>
>> I'm guessing it's when the particular ISP use their own cables at the
>> exchange, so, you pay the ISP directly for line rental and not BT, I
>> can't see though, how this applies to the actual line from the
>> exchange to the house, unless I'm on the wrong track entirely!
>>
>> Can someone explain please?
>
> This is a good place to start
>
>
> http://www.thinkbroadband.com/
>
>
>
> Peter Crosland
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Peter

But it dosent really explain what I was asking.

Brian

That Man! wrote:
> I often hear the terms, bundled and un-bundled and LLU etc., as regards
> broadband and some ISPs.
>
> I'm guessing it's when the particular ISP use their own cables at the
> exchange, so, you pay the ISP directly for line rental and not BT, I can't
> see though, how this applies to the actual line from the exchange to the
> house, unless I'm on the wrong track entirely!
>
> Can someone explain please?

I am excepting VirginMedia cable internet/phone from what follows.

The lines between the exchange at the premises are owned/maintained by
Openreach. "Normally" this line has been connected at the exchange to
BTwholesale phone systems and can be connected to BTwholesale DSLAMS for
ADSL services etc.

Other operators are able to share this copper pair, either by having it
connected to their ADSL equipment (and someone else such as BTwholesale
for phone) or to their phone equipment (and someone else such as
BTwholesale for ADSL). This is SMPF - shared metallic path facility.

Further operators are able to have the copper connected to their
equipment for both telephone and broadband - i.e. it is not connected to
BTwholesale at all. This effectively puts another operator in the same
position that BT traditionally have been in. This is known as MPF (or
FMPF) and is usually described as the line being "fully unbundled". In
this situation you as the user do not get a bill from BT at all, as they
are not providing you with any service.

All operators using LLU (including BT) pay the independent Openreach to
do any work on the copper pairs from your master socket back to the
cabling in the exchange.

Regards,

"Paul Cupis" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:fni9n2$2ial$(E-Mail Removed)...
> That Man! wrote:
>> I often hear the terms, bundled and un-bundled and LLU etc., as regards
>> broadband and some ISPs.
>>
>> I'm guessing it's when the particular ISP use their own cables at the
>> exchange, so, you pay the ISP directly for line rental and not BT, I
>> can't see though, how this applies to the actual line from the exchange
>> to the house, unless I'm on the wrong track entirely!
>>
>> Can someone explain please?
>
> I am excepting VirginMedia cable internet/phone from what follows.
>
> The lines between the exchange at the premises are owned/maintained by
> Openreach. "Normally" this line has been connected at the exchange to
> BTwholesale phone systems and can be connected to BTwholesale DSLAMS for
> ADSL services etc.
>
> Other operators are able to share this copper pair, either by having it
> connected to their ADSL equipment (and someone else such as BTwholesale
> for phone) or to their phone equipment (and someone else such as
> BTwholesale for ADSL). This is SMPF - shared metallic path facility.
>
> Further operators are able to have the copper connected to their equipment
> for both telephone and broadband - i.e. it is not connected to BTwholesale
> at all. This effectively puts another operator in the same position that
> BT traditionally have been in. This is known as MPF (or FMPF) and is
> usually described as the line being "fully unbundled". In this situation
> you as the user do not get a bill from BT at all, as they are not
> providing you with any service.
>
> All operators using LLU (including BT) pay the independent Openreach to do
> any work on the copper pairs from your master socket back to the cabling
> in the exchange.
>
> Regards,
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Paul ...........

What an excellent reply, thank you.

I have been searching for an explanation on several sites, most seem to
presume you understand

all the principles already, which I didn't, hence the request.

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply, I understand

what's going on now.


Brian (Huddersfield)

In message <fni9n2$2ial$(E-Mail Removed)>, Paul Cupis
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

[snip useful explanation]

>Further operators are able to have the copper connected to their
>equipment for both telephone and broadband - i.e. it is not connected
>to BTwholesale at all. This effectively puts another operator in the
>same position that BT traditionally have been in. This is known as MPF
>(or FMPF) and is usually described as the line being "fully unbundled".
>In this situation you as the user do not get a bill from BT at all, as
>they are not providing you with any service.

As I understand it, whether or not you get LLU depends on your local
exchange, and from what you say, you will *not* get a BT bill if you
*are* unbundled, but *will* get a BT bill if you are *not* unbundled. Is
this correct?

My situation:

1. I am on cable at present.

2. I have a BT line wired to the house, but left BT over 10 years ago,
so the line is just unused copper.

3. Samknows tells me that at my local exchange there are 3 services
specifically designated as non-LLU. Does this mean that the many other
services on offer *are* LLU?

4. If I sign up with an LLU service, can I use the existing BT line
without signing up to BT as well?

--
Ian

On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 09:46:54 +0000, Ian wrote:

> As I understand it, whether or not you get LLU depends on your local
> exchange, and from what you say, you will *not* get a BT bill if you
> *are* unbundled,

Depends how much you unbundle. I have Be, I pay Be for broadband and BT
for line rental. It is possible to go 100% unbundled and not pay BT
directly at all, but currently Be do not offer this. Tiscali [spit] do.

> but *will* get a BT bill if you are *not* unbundled. Is this correct?

If you go with a service provider who use BT's Wholesale Line Rental
product, then you won't be unbundled, but you won't be paying BT directly
either. The short answer is that there is no short answer!

> My situation:
>
> 1. I am on cable at present.
>
> 2. I have a BT line wired to the house, but left BT over 10 years ago,
> so the line is just unused copper.

I think it costs about 130 quid to get re-connected.

> 3. Samknows tells me that at my local exchange there are 3 services
> specifically designated as non-LLU. Does this mean that the many other
> services on offer *are* LLU?

Use the wholesale checker at samknows.com and look at what it says under
"The following services are available in your location:".

> 4. If I sign up with an LLU service, can I use the existing BT line
> without signing up to BT as well?

Depends if the LLU operators at your exchange want to offer you that as a
service. Not all [any?] do. If they do, then the amount they charge you
won't be much less than BT, and if they don't charge you upfront for it,
it'll be incorporated into your bill anyway.

--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ((E-Mail Removed))
21:28:00 up 24 days, 11:53, 2 users, load average: 1.15, 1.11, 1.14
2x Broadband/IT/Telecoms support positions in Newcastle city centre.
For more info call 0191 229 8870 and ask for Steve. No agencies.

Ian wrote:
> As I understand it, whether or not you get LLU depends on your local
> exchange,

Whether or not you /can/ get "LLU" depends on whether there are any
operators who have unbundled your local exchange.

> and from what you say, you will *not* get a BT bill if you
> *are* unbundled, but *will* get a BT bill if you are *not* unbundled. Is
> this correct?

If you are fully unbundled, you will not get a BT bill. If you are
partially unbundled, you /may/ get a BT bill. If you are "not unbundled"
at all, you may get a bill from BT.

The company providing your phone service may be a WLR provider or an LLU
operator. In either case you do not get a BT bill, but in the first case
BT are the wholesaler actually providing your service.

> My situation:
>
> 1. I am on cable at present.
>
> 2. I have a BT line wired to the house, but left BT over 10 years ago,
> so the line is just unused copper.
>
> 3. Samknows tells me that at my local exchange there are 3 services
> specifically designated as non-LLU. Does this mean that the many other
> services on offer *are* LLU?

Technically, all services are LLU. Do you want to give us some more
details, please?

> 4. If I sign up with an LLU service, can I use the existing BT line
> without signing up to BT as well?

An LLU operator can get Openreach to "activate" the existing copper
pair, just as easily as BT can. Whether or not they want to or not is a
decision each LLU operator can make. Some will require you to get a BT
line for them to take over, but this is a commercial/operational
decision, not a technical limitation.

"Paul Cupis" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:fno7ga$nqt$(E-Mail Removed)...
> The company providing your phone service may be a WLR provider or an LLU
> operator. In either case you do not get a BT bill, but in the first case
> BT are the wholesaler actually providing your service.

BT Retail has already moved some phone lines to WLR and all the 20+ million
of them should be moved to WLR within 18 months or so. At that time BT
Retail will be a full WLR provider like the others, so meeting Ofcom's goal
of equivalence in that part of the market.

The part of BT that is doing the WLR wholesaling is Openreach.

http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/products/wlr/wlr.do