Building To Building

Hello,

I'm certain the question has been asked before about how to setup a simple
wireless connection between two buidlings; so, I apologize for being
repetive.

The application is on a farm. I am using PC's running Windows 98se.
Presently I have a wired network setup. There is a cable modem, hooked into
a router. Two PCs are also hooked into the router; these PCs share files
and the internet connection. There are also two network webcams hooked into
the router (this provides us with offsite, remote monitoring ability). None
of this equipment is wireless. (The router is about 50' from the exterior
wall of the building that faces Bldg2 - see below.) All of the above is in
Bldg1.

There is a second building, Bldg2. A stand-alone PC is in Bldg2, it has no
network connection. Bldg1 and Bld2 are 150' apart and in direct line of
site. The computer in Bldg2 is about 15' into the interior and not in
direct line of site with Bldg1. I want to connect the PC in Bldg2 with my
network in Bldg1 in order to share the internet connection. It is not
practical to run a wire between these buildings.

Any suggestions on how to do this. I am willing to replace the router in
Bldg1 with a wireless one (prefer to use Linksys). Also, I prefer to hook
into the PC in Bldg2 using a wired ethernet card (already installed in the
computer) so I assume that I will need either a wireless router or AP in
Bldg2 which I then plug the computer into.

Thank you for any guidance you can give me.

Bruce

BL wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm certain the question has been asked before about how to setup a
> simple wireless connection between two buidlings; so, I apologize for
> being repetive.
>
> The application is on a farm. I am using PC's running Windows 98se.
> Presently I have a wired network setup. There is a cable modem,
> hooked into a router. Two PCs are also hooked into the router; these
>
> Thank you for any guidance you can give me.
>
> Bruce

Where does it get it's electrical power from? Think about doing it in a low
cost way, rather than think about doing things the high tech expensive way.
Chances are, if it is a building on a farm, the electrical comes off a
transformer by the street and, then routed to the buildings.. Means there is
already wiring between the buildings. They not only make "power line
networking", but they also have phones, intercoms, radios, tv, multimedia,
etc over power lines. For devices with a ethernet and/or USB jacks that
plugs into AC plugs, and run at speeds of about 10 Mbps... Check out
http://www.plugtek.com

If you are curious, the devices that plug in at various locations are about
$50 each. (you will need two, so it will be about $100)

Thanks for the suggestion about powerline networking devices. I had
considered this; however, the two building are on two completely different
services (meters, drops, etc.) Also, there is not common telephone service
between the buildings.

Bruce

On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 03:08:11 -0600, in alt.internet.wireless , "BL"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

(snip long description of what is essentially: two buildings ~150ft apart,
router in one 50ft from wall, PC in 2nd, unspecified distance from wall)

Aside from using powerline networking, I'd suggest putting a wireless AP
close to the outer wall of building 1, with an antenna on the outside
facing building 2, and a similar wireless reciever in building 2 with an
antenna facing building 1. Some APs can be set in reciever mode (i forget
the proper name for the mode).


--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.ungerhu.com/jxh/clc.welcome.txt>

"BL" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bUzWd.6748$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hello,
>
> I'm certain the question has been asked before about how to setup a
simple
> wireless connection between two buidlings; so, I apologize for being
> repetive.
>
> The application is on a farm. I am using PC's running Windows 98se.
> Presently I have a wired network setup. There is a cable modem,
hooked into
> a router. Two PCs are also hooked into the router; these PCs share
files
> and the internet connection. There are also two network webcams
hooked into
> the router (this provides us with offsite, remote monitoring
ability). None
> of this equipment is wireless. (The router is about 50' from the
exterior
> wall of the building that faces Bldg2 - see below.) All of the
above is in
> Bldg1.
>
> There is a second building, Bldg2. A stand-alone PC is in Bldg2, it
has no
> network connection. Bldg1 and Bld2 are 150' apart and in direct
line of
> site. The computer in Bldg2 is about 15' into the interior and not
in
> direct line of site with Bldg1. I want to connect the PC in Bldg2
with my
> network in Bldg1 in order to share the internet connection. It is
not
> practical to run a wire between these buildings.
>
> Any suggestions on how to do this. I am willing to replace the
router in
> Bldg1 with a wireless one (prefer to use Linksys). Also, I prefer
to hook
> into the PC in Bldg2 using a wired ethernet card (already installed
in the
> computer) so I assume that I will need either a wireless router or
AP in
> Bldg2 which I then plug the computer into.
>
> Thank you for any guidance you can give me.
>
> Bruce

Seeing how you like linksys, a couple of wap54g's would work.
You can run them both in bridge mode, or if you want wireless in
Bldg1 you can run one of them in AP mode and the other in
AP Client mode.Just connect the one in Bldg1 to your existing router
and the one in Bldg2 to the ethernet card.
If you can place both near a window facing each other it might work
right out of the box. If you dont get a good connection you can always
put a different antenna setup on them.

BL wrote:
> Thanks for the suggestion about powerline networking devices. I had
> considered this; however, the two building are on two completely
> different services (meters, drops, etc.) Also, there is not common
> telephone service between the buildings.
>
> Bruce

Too bad, when you said it was a farm, I was hoping one drop.. Oh well, If
you ever have a yacht, they work great off a single generator..

In article <422aef6b$0$22518$(E-Mail Removed)> ,
Airhead <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>"BL" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:bUzWd.6748$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm certain the question has been asked before about how to setup a
>simple
>> wireless connection between two buidlings; so, I apologize for being
>> repetive.
>>
>> The application is on a farm. I am using PC's running Windows 98se.
>> Presently I have a wired network setup. There is a cable modem,
>hooked into
>> a router. Two PCs are also hooked into the router; these PCs share
>files
>> and the internet connection. There are also two network webcams
>hooked into
>> the router (this provides us with offsite, remote monitoring
>ability). None
>> of this equipment is wireless. (The router is about 50' from the
>exterior
>> wall of the building that faces Bldg2 - see below.) All of the
>above is in
>> Bldg1.
>>
>> There is a second building, Bldg2. A stand-alone PC is in Bldg2, it
>has no
>> network connection. Bldg1 and Bld2 are 150' apart and in direct
>line of
>> site. The computer in Bldg2 is about 15' into the interior and not
>in
>> direct line of site with Bldg1. I want to connect the PC in Bldg2
>with my
>> network in Bldg1 in order to share the internet connection. It is
>not
>> practical to run a wire between these buildings.
>>
>> Any suggestions on how to do this. I am willing to replace the
>router in
>> Bldg1 with a wireless one (prefer to use Linksys). Also, I prefer
>to hook
>> into the PC in Bldg2 using a wired ethernet card (already installed
>in the
>> computer) so I assume that I will need either a wireless router or
>AP in
>> Bldg2 which I then plug the computer into.
>>
>> Thank you for any guidance you can give me.
>>
>> Bruce
>
>Seeing how you like linksys, a couple of wap54g's would work.
>You can run them both in bridge mode, or if you want wireless in
>Bldg1 you can run one of them in AP mode and the other in
>AP Client mode.Just connect the one in Bldg1 to your existing router
>and the one in Bldg2 to the ethernet card.
> If you can place both near a window facing each other it might work
>right out of the box. If you dont get a good connection you can always
>put a different antenna setup on them.
>


You'll probaly benefit by directioal antennas at one or both ends.
Google for "wifi cantenna", which should be fine. It's eith DIY or can
be purchased.

In general, antennas need to be line-of-sight and the coax cable
between the AP and the antenna should be as short as possible, a small
# of feet, so yoiu wind up pulling enternet insode the house to reach
the AP/antenna location. the AP can be powered over the CTA5 wire
(google "POE power over ethernet") People put the AP antenna outside
in weatherproof plastic boxes.




--

a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.

These are easy to hook up just plug in USB port and will have no problem at
that short of distance.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MESO:IT

"Al Dykes" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:d0f4g8$8ej$(E-Mail Removed)...
> In article <422aef6b$0$22518$(E-Mail Removed)> ,
> Airhead <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>"BL" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>news:bUzWd.6748$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I'm certain the question has been asked before about how to setup a
>>simple
>>> wireless connection between two buidlings; so, I apologize for being
>>> repetive.
>>>
>>> The application is on a farm. I am using PC's running Windows 98se.
>>> Presently I have a wired network setup. There is a cable modem,
>>hooked into
>>> a router. Two PCs are also hooked into the router; these PCs share
>>files
>>> and the internet connection. There are also two network webcams
>>hooked into
>>> the router (this provides us with offsite, remote monitoring
>>ability). None
>>> of this equipment is wireless. (The router is about 50' from the
>>exterior
>>> wall of the building that faces Bldg2 - see below.) All of the
>>above is in
>>> Bldg1.
>>>
>>> There is a second building, Bldg2. A stand-alone PC is in Bldg2, it
>>has no
>>> network connection. Bldg1 and Bld2 are 150' apart and in direct
>>line of
>>> site. The computer in Bldg2 is about 15' into the interior and not
>>in
>>> direct line of site with Bldg1. I want to connect the PC in Bldg2
>>with my
>>> network in Bldg1 in order to share the internet connection. It is
>>not
>>> practical to run a wire between these buildings.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions on how to do this. I am willing to replace the
>>router in
>>> Bldg1 with a wireless one (prefer to use Linksys). Also, I prefer
>>to hook
>>> into the PC in Bldg2 using a wired ethernet card (already installed
>>in the
>>> computer) so I assume that I will need either a wireless router or
>>AP in
>>> Bldg2 which I then plug the computer into.
>>>
>>> Thank you for any guidance you can give me.
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>
>>Seeing how you like linksys, a couple of wap54g's would work.
>>You can run them both in bridge mode, or if you want wireless in
>>Bldg1 you can run one of them in AP mode and the other in
>>AP Client mode.Just connect the one in Bldg1 to your existing router
>>and the one in Bldg2 to the ethernet card.
>> If you can place both near a window facing each other it might work
>>right out of the box. If you dont get a good connection you can always
>>put a different antenna setup on them.
>>
>
>
> You'll probaly benefit by directioal antennas at one or both ends.
> Google for "wifi cantenna", which should be fine. It's eith DIY or can
> be purchased.
>
> In general, antennas need to be line-of-sight and the coax cable
> between the AP and the antenna should be as short as possible, a small
> # of feet, so yoiu wind up pulling enternet insode the house to reach
> the AP/antenna location. the AP can be powered over the CTA5 wire
> (google "POE power over ethernet") People put the AP antenna outside
> in weatherproof plastic boxes.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
>
> Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.

"BL" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>There is a cable modem, hooked into
>a router. Two PCs are also hooked into the router;
....
>The router is about 50' from the exterior wall
....

>A stand-alone PC is in Bldg2, it has no
>network connection. Bldg1 and Bld2 are 150' apart and in direct line of
>site. The computer in Bldg2 is about 15' into the interior and not in
>direct line of site with Bldg1. I want to connect the PC in Bldg2 with my
>network in Bldg1 in order to share the internet connection. It is not
>practical to run a wire between these buildings.
>
>Any suggestions on how to do this. I am willing to replace the router in
>Bldg1 with a wireless one (prefer to use Linksys). Also, I prefer to hook
>into the PC in Bldg2 using a wired ethernet card (already installed in the
>computer) so I assume that I will need either a wireless router or AP in
>Bldg2 which I then plug the computer into.

Because of the number of devices you currently have connected to
your existing router it probably would be best to keep it as is
and simply add a wireless link between the buildings.

Several different Linksys models will do what you want, as will
equipment from other manufacturers. I personally would use
WRT54G units, even though they are overkill for what you want.
They are very common, inexpensive, and are supported by third
party firmware which makes them very versatile. (Who knows what
you'll think of to use all of this for in the future...)

The trick with a link between buildings in understanding what
"line of sight" means with a 2.4GHz radio path. No trees, no
walls, and no occasional vehicles, all of which can block the
signal. Walls made only of wood are not good, but can be dealt
with. Walls that have aluminum foil backed insulation, have
chicken wire to hold up plaster, or are made of concrete, will
totally block the signal. So will trees or shrubbery that you
cannot see through, as will any vehicle parked in the wrong
place.

Hence... indoor antennas are best if placed in a window on an
upper level. Outdoor antennas are a problem because the gain
they provide is lost in the feedline unless you buy expensive
semi-rigid coax. Mounting the equipment itself outdoors, on an
elevated antenna mount, is another way to provide good service.
Suffice to say, outdoor equipment is significantly more complex
and expensive.

The ideal example would be facing second story windows in each
building. Any number of different kinds equipment models could
be used, but I'll describe a pair of WRT54G's.

Download third party firmware (Satori from Sveasoft or the latest
HyperWRT firmware) and install it. Configure one unit as an AP
and the other as a client. Mount them in the windows and run
CAT5 cable to the router in Bldg1 and to the PC in Bldg2.

At 150' you should have a very solid link.

Note that if you do not mount the units in a window or use an
external antenna that is outdoors, it will probably not work at
all initially, and if it does it will almost certainly suffer
from frequent signal dropouts. However, it might be possible,
with experimentation, to find exactly the right place to locate
the units where they will work.

I do the same thing with a building that is perhaps 100-120 feet
away. The walls don't have any metal in them, and by moving
each unit around and looking at signal strengths, I did find a
place where they do work (one is at ground level, the other is
on the second story because signal loss on the first floor was
too frequent). Typical signal strength runs about -75 dBm or
better, with occasional fades down to -81 dBm or so (caused
mostly by multipath fading when vehicles drive by, or park, on
the street between the two buildings).

Post more information about the specifics and you'll get
significant input on your project as you go along. Different
people here can provide real expertise on just about every
aspect of your project. You don't need to ask right now about
things like how to run CAT5 cable or how to configure your PC or
the WRT54G, but when you get to those points... do post again as
new hurdles need to be jumped.

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) (E-Mail Removed)

Thanks to all who have replied.

Floyd from Alaska seems to have keyed in on a simple setup that I can
handle, but I still have a couple of "novice" questions.

1. Using two WRT54Gs will work for me. When setting these up I presume
that in Bldg1 the WRT54G is configured as an access point and hooked via a
CAT5 cable to my existing router. Is this correct?

2. Bldg2 will have the WRT54G configured as a client and I hook this via
CAT5 cable to the ethernet card in the computer. Correct? The WRT54G in
Bldg2 will sit near a window with clear line of site to Bldg1.

3. Bldg1 is a metal building. I can place the WRT54G near the exterior
wall, but I presume an external antenna placed on the outside of the wall
(facing Bldg2) would greatly help the signal. Any suggestions on which
antenna to buy?

Again thanks to all.