BT's procedure's for line tests, does anyone outside know what your rights are?

Hi,

Let me set the scene, I lived in North London (Edgware) - had b-band happily
for 12months, then moved to North West London (Harrow). Naturall, living on
the outskirts of the biggest metropolitan area in the world I didn't bother
checking before I moved to see whether I could get b-band. Imagine the
nightmare having been told that I live too far away from an exchange!

The phone line is also "patched" together and the first BT engineer told me
that its not standard wiring (at least inside the property) and in the fuse
box outside the flat (inside though) it looks like rats have had a go at it.
Anyway, even with a 56k modem I get, at best 31kbps (3.x KB/s downloads) So,
I called the BT out, asked him to "fix it" but he said it wouldn't make any
difference, did some tests and charged me £50 for the pleasure. Hmmm....

Recently I re-checked the avail. checker and it said that b-band was now
available, so I ordered a 1Mb line and had some more tests, first time round
the bt guy wrote down these resutlts (approx) 46.5db and the other one I
can't remember, anyway he said that above 60db loss you can't get it. Great!
I thought. He goes away, then comes back and says he's been to the exchange
and all this time a (I quote) "plug had come out at the exchange, and I need
to re-test" This time his test was 36db (again first figure only) and he
said that this was looking much much better for the 1Mb line that I wanted.
Christmas! I thought. Its definitely going ahead now, 36db thats way below
the 60db mark. And my dialup connection has improved from below 30 to
36kbps, a marked improvement. So, I waited like a good boy for the x number
of working days to pass before ringing the ISP who said that BT had failed
me on the test! No 1Mb line for you sir, 512kbps perhaps? Does a bear s**t
in the woods? was my answer. But its left a sour aftertaste in my mouth and
questions that I would like to put to the group:

1. Can I request BT to re-wire my connection to the outside world, I'm
talking to the telegraph pole perhaps?

2. Am I obliged to pay for that? Or since the in-house wires were not put
there by BT, should they replace them?

3. Is there any point? My main concern is whether I will have a trouble free
time on the existing wires with the 0.5Mb, if so I will definitely get onto
BT.

4. Would it change the readings so as to allow me to get the desired 1Mb
line?

I do apologise to those that can't get it if this sounds like bitching but
its going to really do my head in if I find myself in a "got broadband-but
its not working properly/at all"

If anyone could shine some light on this for me I would be VERY grateful.

--
Bartek Borek

(E-Mail Removed) *

* (replace isp name with tiscali for email)

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:55:57 +0100, "Bartek"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Let me set the scene, I lived in North London (Edgware) - had b-band happily
>for 12months, then moved to North West London (Harrow). Naturall, living on
>the outskirts of the biggest metropolitan area in the world I didn't bother
>checking before I moved to see whether I could get b-band. Imagine the
>nightmare having been told that I live too far away from an exchange!
>
<snip>

Congratulations on a well presented and well thought out post. Makes a
change from the usual moan moan moan gripe gripe gripe drivel. But the
answers to your lucidly placed points must be:
1) No
2) No
3) No
and
4) er.......No.

Makes it all worthwhile really,

"Bartek" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Recently I re-checked the avail. checker and it said that b-band was now
> available, so I ordered a 1Mb line and had some more tests, first time
round
> the bt guy wrote down these resutlts (approx) 46.5db and the other one I
> can't remember, anyway he said that above 60db loss you can't get it.
Great!
> I thought. He goes away, then comes back and says he's been to the
exchange
> and all this time a (I quote) "plug had come out at the exchange, and I
need
> to re-test" This time his test was 36db (again first figure only) and he
> said that this was looking much much better for the 1Mb line that I
wanted.
> Christmas! I thought.

Its less than 41dB (remote test) for 1MB (45dB if the engineer is present)
Its less than 59dB (remote test) for 512K (<64 if engineer is present)

If you applied for 1MB reapply but for 512K this time.

What does http://www.bt.com/broadband/ say for your number?

> 1. Can I request BT to re-wire my connection to the outside world, I'm
> talking to the telegraph pole perhaps?

Yes - but its their choice whether to do so or not.

> 2. Am I obliged to pay for that?

Yes - as its not to fix a faulty voice line.

> 3. Is there any point?

Not really.

> 4. Would it change the readings so as to allow me to get the desired 1Mb
> line?

Perhaps.

Regards
Sunil

On 21/10/03 9:13 pm, in article (E-Mail Removed),
"Jasper" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:55:57 +0100, "Bartek"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Let me set the scene, I lived in North London (Edgware) - had b-band happily
>> for 12months, then moved to North West London (Harrow). Naturall, living on
>> the outskirts of the biggest metropolitan area in the world I didn't bother
>> checking before I moved to see whether I could get b-band. Imagine the
>> nightmare having been told that I live too far away from an exchange!
>>
> <snip>
>
> Congratulations on a well presented and well thought out post. Makes a
> change from the usual moan moan moan gripe gripe gripe drivel. But the
> answers to your lucidly placed points must be:
> 1) No
> 2) No
> 3) No
> and
> 4) er.......No.
>
> Makes it all worthwhile really,
>
Well said Jasper - a very clear thinking response to a good set of
questions.

<snip>


Phone BT 151 and report your line crackling when you speak/listen on the
line.

?

Graham

"Graham" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bn48dl$ss9u4$(E-Mail Removed)...
> <snip>
>
>
> Phone BT 151 and report your line crackling when you speak/listen on the
> line.
>
> ?
>
> Graham
>
Or 150 even .

I'll try that, thanks

<snip>

It would appear that it passed the second time round, not sure on the
remote/local type of the testing-it was done at the socket in my flat so I
presume local. So why fail if it was 36db? Hmmmm....

> If you applied for 1MB reapply but for 512K this time.

Have done already, just hoping that the poor quality of the cabling doesn't
cause hassle

> What does http://www.bt.com/broadband/ say for your number?

Since the test, it says that I can get 512, not 1Mb or 2Mb, secretly I was
hoping that it would change the loss readings to my favour if it were
rectified. :-I

> Yes - as its not to fix a faulty voice line.

Ah yes, I remember this being the point of conversation with 150/1 when I
was trying to rectify the poor dialup performance, they're only obligated to
provide voice comms, data comms is not their worry-one for corporate policy,
nil to hopeful consumer :-/

> > 3. Is there any point?
>
> Not really.

:-{

Oh well, just have to wait while they update their network infrastructure
in the future or move (probably also in the future

Thanks

Bartek

> Congratulations on a well presented and well thought out post. Makes a
> change from the usual moan moan moan gripe gripe gripe drivel.

Thanks, I was aiming for that at least

> 1) No
> 2) No
> 3) No
> and
> 4) er.......No.
>
> Makes it all worthwhile really,

Sort of, at least I'm a tad more enlightened than before, which would at
least make my time writing/reading worthwile

Regards

Bartek

"Bartek" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:3f95a943$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > What does http://www.bt.com/broadband/ say for your number?
>
> Since the test, it says that I can get 512, not 1Mb or 2Mb, secretly I was
> hoping that it would change the loss readings to my favour if it were
> rectified. :-I

As per your other post - I understand you are thinking of going via
Bulldog..

Was your 1MB line test via them as well?

Normally they are quite good at customer services - if not, you may want to
apply for the 1MB service again via them - ask them to submit a "manual
order" to BT Wholesale saying that you had been told that your dB was 36db
(or 46.5db - though <45 is better) by an engineer before but you still
failed.

I don't think you are on a Bulldog LLU exchange - so Bulldog are still
dependent on if BT Wholesale "pass" your line.

If you were on a Bulldog LLU exchange - there have been cases were Bulldog
would enable the higher speed and then if you had problems downgrade you -
they can't really do this on non-LLU exchanges.

One of the reasons for this is that on an LLU exchange Bulldog can do an
automatic line test across the whole spectrum to evaluate it - like one or
two routers can do.

BT currently only has limited test capability for ADSL and does not not
broadband spectrum testing capability. When they get their line test systems
upgraded with the Acterna test heads (which they have announced), they'll be
able to better test lines...

Regards
Sunil