BT say "too far" my router says "Noise 40dB/att 17dB"

I recently got ADSL enabled at home.

I'm 1 mile (by the route of the cable) from the exchange and BT would only
provide a 512 service due to "line lenght"

I initially assumed they knew something about a specific line loss problem
such that, despite the short physical length, the line would still be out
of spec for any faster than 512.

Once ADSL was "live" I was able to interrogate my router and it reports:-

Downstream Noise Margin : 40dB
Downstream Attenuation : 17dB

Upstream Noise Margin : 30dB
Upstream Attenuation : 8dB

Does this tie up with the line being only 1 mile or so long?

I'd tink it does. It certainly doensn't seem to be close to the limit for
even 2MB!

Demon (my ISP) refuse to request an upgrade/re-test from BT as they believe
BT's "checker" data must be accurate.

No-one (Demon nor BT) will tell me the actual results of BT's "in depth initial
survey", so I'm left with a 512 service on a line that would seem to be
suitable for more.

Is it possible to get hold of BT's test results, or get them to re-test, and
if so how does one go about this. Demon don't seem to want to try on my behalf.

I realise this might be a FAQ, so forgive me, but if someone could point me
in the right direction I'd be grateful.

--
Cheers,

John - still glad to be on 512 at least.

On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:14:36 +0100, (E-Mail Removed)l (John
P-G) wrote:

>Downstream Noise Margin : 40dB
>Downstream Attenuation : 17dB
>Upstream Noise Margin : 30dB
>Upstream Attenuation : 8dB
>
>Does this tie up with the line being only 1 mile or so long?

yes, at 10-12 dB per km or so its a good fit.

>I'd tink it does. It certainly doensn't seem to be close to the limit for
>even 2MB!

It would do 8M given a chance.

>Demon (my ISP) refuse to request an upgrade/re-test from BT as they believe
>BT's "checker" data must be accurate.

it certainly makes the decisions. Demon get it round their neck
though, failing three upgrades from 512 to 1M when my line was 1M
capable.

>No-one (Demon nor BT) will tell me the actual results of BT's "in depth initial
>survey", so I'm left with a 512 service on a line that would seem to be
>suitable for more.

there isn't a survey, so they can't show you anything.

>Is it possible to get hold of BT's test results, or get them to re-test, and
>if so how does one go about this. Demon don't seem to want to try on my behalf.

your best chance is ADSLguide. Go to http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/ and
search the General Chatter or BT Wholesale or Technical forums and
you'll see how others have got the checker changed. "upgrade" would be
a good search term.

Phil
--
Tiscali - dialup speeds at Broadband prices, see
http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/postlist...&Board=tiscali

AOL - the unlimited ISP of choice for heavy downloaders.

On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:42:45 +0100, Phil Thompson
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:14:36 +0100, (E-Mail Removed)l (John
>P-G) wrote:
>>
>>Does this tie up with the line being only 1 mile or so long?
>
>yes, at 10-12 dB per km or so its a good fit.

Thanks for the info - at least that proves I'm in the right parish.


>>I'd think it does. It certainly doensn't seem to be close to the limit for
>>even 2MB!
>
>It would do 8M given a chance.

Yes, that's what I thought before I ordered ADSL. My original order for
1M was bounced by BT due to "line length".

>
>>Demon (my ISP) refuse to request an upgrade/re-test from BT as they believe
>>BT's "checker" data must be accurate.


>it certainly makes the decisions. Demon get it round their neck
>though, failing three upgrades from 512 to 1M when my line was 1M
>capable.

I've been with eDmon for years on dial-up and have never had to use
their "customer services" until now. I'm glad I hadn't, because they're
not too helpul!

>>No-one (Demon nor BT) will tell me the actual results of BT's "in depth initial
>>survey", so I'm left with a 512 service on a line that would seem to be
>>suitable for more.


>there isn't a survey, so they can't show you anything.
>

That's what I thought, but after eDmon's sales person repeatedly telling
me "BT have done exhaustive line tests and this is the best speed that
can be accomodated on your line" you begin to wonder.

My own feeling is that the ISP (and BT) simply look at the same checker
data that we look at, and assume it's the results of BT actually doing
something to put accurate information there.

>>Is it possible to get hold of BT's test results, or get them to re-test, and
>>if so how does one go about this. Demon don't seem to want to try on my behalf.
>
>your best chance is ADSLguide. Go to http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/ and
>search the General Chatter or BT Wholesale or Technical forums and
>you'll see how others have got the checker changed. "upgrade" would be
>a good search term.
>

Thanks!

Now I see the problem is one of data accuracy not line problem I will
see how others have had incorrect checker data changed!

--
John P-G
Twatt,
Shetland

On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:14:36 +0100, John P-G wrote:

> Once ADSL was "live" I was able to interrogate my router and it reports:-
>
> Downstream Noise Margin : 40dB
> Downstream Attenuation : 17dB
>

Are you by any chance having Netgear DG834GT router? It has bug which
swapped the reading.

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:39:31 +0100, WiraOne <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:14:36 +0100, John P-G wrote:
>
>> Once ADSL was "live" I was able to interrogate my router and it reports:-
>>
>> Downstream Noise Margin : 40dB
>> Downstream Attenuation : 17dB
>>
>
>Are you by any chance having Netgear DG834GT router? It has bug which
>swapped the reading.

No, it's a Zyxel 650HE. I might plug in Demon's speedtouch USB (never
actually used it) and see if it confirms the reading of the Zyxel.

--
John - thinking of moving from Demon - any recommendations?

On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:42:45 +0100, Phil Thompson wrote:
>
>>Is it possible to get hold of BT's test results, or get them to re-test, and
>>if so how does one go about this. Demon don't seem to want to try on my behalf.
>
>your best chance is ADSLguide. Go to http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/ and
>search the General Chatter or BT Wholesale or Technical forums and
>you'll see how others have got the checker changed. "upgrade" would be
>a good search term.

I had a look in there - and is seems that the only way is to persuade
your ISP to request a "manual upgrade" from BT - which seemingly good
ISPs will do if you can provide Line Stats to support the fact that the
Checker is wrong.

I've provided my stats to Demon, to no avail as yet.

Has anyone had any experience of persuading an ISP to request a "manual
upgrade" - and if so which ISPs have come up with the goods?

I'm leaning towards ZEN at the moment?

--
Cheers,
John

>Remove my FALSETEETH to reply

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:08:35 +0100,
(E-Mail Removed) (John P-G) wrote:

>
>Has anyone had any experience of persuading an ISP to request a "manual
>upgrade" - and if so which ISPs have come up with the goods?
>

Clara will do it.

--
Tony

"John P-G" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:39:31 +0100, WiraOne <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:14:36 +0100, John P-G wrote:
> >
> >> Once ADSL was "live" I was able to interrogate my router and it
reports:-
> >>
> >> Downstream Noise Margin : 40dB
> >> Downstream Attenuation : 17dB
> >>
> >
> >Are you by any chance having Netgear DG834GT router? It has bug which
> >swapped the reading.
>
> No, it's a Zyxel 650HE. I might plug in Demon's speedtouch USB (never
> actually used it) and see if it confirms the reading of the Zyxel.
>
> --
> John - thinking of moving from Demon - any recommendations?
I have a SpeedTouch USB, and I'm not aware of any way of getting the line
stats.
If there is a way, perhaps someone could enlighten me!

ng598 wrote:

> I have a SpeedTouch USB, and I'm not aware of any way of getting the
> line stats.
> If there is a way, perhaps someone could enlighten me!

Mine came with Dr Speedtouch software on the CD. If you have that
install it, then right click the icon in the system tray and choose
Advanced>Write log file to disk.

Now if only I knew what the stats meant!

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:08:35 +0100,
(E-Mail Removed) (John P-G) wrote:

>I had a look in there - and is seems that the only way is to persuade
>your ISP to request a "manual upgrade" from BT - which seemingly good
>ISPs will do if you can provide Line Stats to support the fact that the
>Checker is wrong.

the alternative is to get the checker changed, which you should also
have seen. There's a reply to your posting on there now to that
effect. I got my entry changed and Demon were then able to sleep
through an automatic upgrade.

Phil
--
Tiscali - dialup speeds at Broadband prices, see
http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/postlist...&Board=tiscali

AOL - the unlimited ISP of choice for heavy downloaders.