BT dropping Home Highway - options for 2 lines?

Just got the letter in the mail - Feb 2007.

Incredibly, they are offering to replace it with just ONE line, not
two lines which is what one has been paying the rental for.

I made the point that a lot of people have two lines in use and are
going to be cheesed off. She didn't seem to care.

Anyway, my situation is this

BTHH: Number A - phone
BTHH: Number B - fax

Separate analog line: Number C - ZEN ADSL

I asked BT to replace the BTHH box with *two* phone sockets, carrying
numbers A & B. This is pretty obvious, but they can't do it. All they
can do is replace the BTHH box with *one* socket and then install a
separate line for the 2nd line, so you now have two wires dangling to
your house.

Why can't the engineer

(1) Replace the the BTHH cable (the one in the air) with a 4-core one,
and

(2) Replace the BTHH box with two sockets

I know for a fact that the cable from the box in the loft (which
happens to have a master socket on it) to the BTHH box has enough
cores for two lines.

This is going to be hell for BT, I reckon.

Or did the BT woman give me duff advice?

I asked an engineer to contact me first, but this is not allowed,
apparently. What a load of wankers BT are.

I also need to coordinate with ZEN to transfer the ADSL service from
number C to number B, after BT do the BTHH removal. *Then* the BT
engineer needs to come back and remove the rather messy cabling on
Number C, or can I just rip it off? It goes all the way to the
telephone pole.

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 19:00:14 +0000, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>Incredibly, they are offering to replace it with just ONE line, not
>two lines which is what one has been paying the rental for.

you pay for the rental of one ISDN line, what you do with it is up to
you. Highway actually has 3 numbers.

>Anyway, my situation is this
>
>BTHH: Number A - phone
>BTHH: Number B - fax
>
>Separate analog line: Number C - ZEN ADSL

do you want to keep C ?

You can also use callsign to run two numbers on one analogue line via
distinctive ringing. This widens the options.


>I also need to coordinate with ZEN to transfer the ADSL service from
>number C to number B, after BT do the BTHH removal. *Then* the BT
>engineer needs to come back and remove the rather messy cabling on
>Number C, or can I just rip it off? It goes all the way to the
>telephone pole.

you can't rip it off.

Why not move number B to line C and keep number A on the highway line
converted to analogue ? No more lines and you keep A and B numbers.

Phil
--
http://www.notspot.info/ - if you can't get the Broadband you want.

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Just got the letter in the mail - Feb 2007.
>
> Incredibly, they are offering to replace it with just ONE line, not
> two lines which is what one has been paying the rental for.
>
> I made the point that a lot of people have two lines in use and are
> going to be cheesed off. She didn't seem to care.
>
> Anyway, my situation is this
>
> BTHH: Number A - phone
> BTHH: Number B - fax
>
> Separate analog line: Number C - ZEN ADSL
>
> I asked BT to replace the BTHH box with *two* phone sockets, carrying
> numbers A & B. This is pretty obvious, but they can't do it. All they
> can do is replace the BTHH box with *one* socket and then install a
> separate line for the 2nd line, so you now have two wires dangling to
> your house.

What you could do:

1) BTHH Number A : convert to POTS with number A

2) Separate analog line: Number C - ZEN ADSL : convert this to number B.
Then plug fax machine into it.

This reduces your rental costs:
HH with Option 1 is £82.50
Single POTS channel - only £36.00

----------

A friend has a more restricted position:

BTHH: Number A - phone
BTHH: Number B - fax
BTHH: Number C - digital - used for flat rate ISDN dial-up internet access

The internet access is of course slow (64k) but is adequate for email.
Since ISDN is very reliable, there is no problem in allowing large downloads
to run overnight. Performance with modern websites is of course less than
ideal since some are designed with much higher speeds in mind, but for a
one-man business the HH system works well. Any two services can be used
simultaneously, and the digital channel setup time is sub 3 seconds; so the
arrangement gives the impression of three simultaneous services.

Current cost: HH with Option 1 £82.50 plus Tiscali flat rate dial-up
3*£14.00 = £124.50

The replacement service would be:

A) replace HH with ISDN2e and add a suitable router - expensive because
IDSN2e is only now available on a business tariff.

B-1) convert HH Number-A to POTS Number-A and buy ADSL and a router

B-2) add a second line and ask for it to have Number B

Cost
POTS line A £36
POTS line B £36 plus any installation cost - don't know what BT would
charge
ADSL eg Tiscali 3* £15 for 2mbit/sec connection

Total quarterly charge £117 - so definitely rather better value

Disadvantages:
1) Can't get Tiscali to install ADSL until (some weeks) after HH has been
converted to POTS
2) have to borrow a modem to provide internet access in the interim
3) in this instance, getting BT to find an additional pair for the new line
may be quite difficult.

BT has shot themselves in the foot over this one, because it will put such
pressure on the demand for additional lines. Given that ISDN2e will still
be supported as a mechanism for connecting multi-line PABXs for businesses,
what they should have done is simply say that all HH would be converted free
to ISDN2e with a free router.

They could then have made even more efficient use of the single pair by
providing ADSL over ISDN (i.e. Annex B).

--
Graham

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Just got the letter in the mail - Feb 2007.
>
> Incredibly, they are offering to replace it with just ONE line, not
> two lines which is what one has been paying the rental for.
>
> I made the point that a lot of people have two lines in use and are
> going to be cheesed off. She didn't seem to care.
>
> Anyway, my situation is this
>
> BTHH: Number A - phone
> BTHH: Number B - fax
>
> Separate analog line: Number C - ZEN ADSL
>
> I asked BT to replace the BTHH box with *two* phone sockets, carrying
> numbers A & B. This is pretty obvious, but they can't do it. All they
> can do is replace the BTHH box with *one* socket and then install a
> separate line for the 2nd line, so you now have two wires dangling to
> your house.

What you could do:

1) BTHH Number A : convert to POTS with number A

2) Separate analog line: Number C - ZEN ADSL : convert this to number B.
Then plug fax machine into it. Zen & BT between them should ensure that your
ADSL service is unbroken!!!

This reduces your rental costs:
HH with Option 1 is £82.50
Single POTS channel - only £36.00

----------

A friend has a more restricted position:

BTHH: Number A - phone
BTHH: Number B - fax
BTHH: Number C - digital - used for flat rate ISDN dial-up internet access

The internet access is of course slow (64k) but is adequate for email.
Since ISDN is very reliable, there is no problem in allowing large downloads
to run overnight. Performance with modern websites is of course less than
ideal since some are designed with much higher speeds in mind, but for a
one-man business the HH system works well. Any two services can be used
simultaneously, and the digital channel setup time is sub 3 seconds; so the
arrangement gives the impression of three simultaneous services.

Current cost: HH with Option 1 £82.50 plus Tiscali flat rate dial-up
3*£14.00 = £124.50

The replacement service options would be:

A) replace HH with ISDN2e and add a suitable router - expensive because
IDSN2e is only now available on a business tariff.

B-1) convert HH Number-A to POTS Number-A and buy ADSL and a router

B-2) add a second line and ask for it to have Number B

Cost
POTS line A £36
POTS line B £36 plus any installation cost - don't know what BT would
charge
ADSL eg Tiscali 3* £15 for 2mbit/sec connection

Total quarterly charge £117 - so definitely rather better value in the long
term despite installation charges

Disadvantages:
1) Can't get Tiscali to install ADSL until (some weeks) after HH has been
converted to POTS
2) Have to borrow a modem to provide internet access in the interim
3) For my friend at his rural location, getting BT to find an additional
pair for the new line may be quite difficult.

BT has shot themselves in the foot over this one, because it will put such
pressure on the demand for additional lines. Given that ISDN2e will still
be supported as a mechanism for connecting multi-line PABXs for businesses,
what they should have done is simply say that all HH would be converted free
to ISDN2e with a free router.

They could then have made even more efficient use of the single pair by
providing ADSL over ISDN (i.e. Annex B) as is extensively available in
Germany.

--
Graham

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Just got the letter in the mail - Feb 2007.
>
> Incredibly, they are offering to replace it with just ONE line, not
> two lines which is what one has been paying the rental for.
>
> I made the point that a lot of people have two lines in use and are
> going to be cheesed off. She didn't seem to care.
>
> Anyway, my situation is this
>
> BTHH: Number A - phone
> BTHH: Number B - fax
>
> Separate analog line: Number C - ZEN ADSL
>
> I asked BT to replace the BTHH box with *two* phone sockets, carrying
> numbers A & B. This is pretty obvious, but they can't do it. All they
> can do is replace the BTHH box with *one* socket and then install a
> separate line for the 2nd line, so you now have two wires dangling to
> your house.

What you could do:

1) BTHH Number A : convert to POTS with number A

2) Separate analog line: Number C - ZEN ADSL : convert this to number B.
Then plug fax machine into it. Zen & BT between them should ensure that your
ADSL service is unbroken!!!

This reduces your rental costs:
HH with Option 1 is £82.50
Single POTS channel - only £36.00

----------

A friend has a more restricted position:

BTHH: Number A - phone
BTHH: Number B - fax
BTHH: Number C - digital - used for flat rate ISDN dial-up internet access

The internet access is of course slow (64k) but is adequate for email.
Since ISDN is very reliable, there is no problem in allowing large downloads
to run overnight. Performance with modern websites is of course less than
ideal since some are designed with much higher speeds in mind, but for a
one-man business the HH system works well. Any two services can be used
simultaneously, and the digital channel setup time is sub 3 seconds; so the
arrangement gives the impression of three simultaneous services.

Current cost: HH with Option 1 £82.50 plus Tiscali flat rate dial-up
3*£14.00 = £124.50

The replacement service options would be:

A) replace HH with ISDN2e and add a suitable router - expensive because
IDSN2e is only now available on a business tariff.

B-1) convert HH Number-A to POTS Number-A and buy ADSL and a router

B-2) add a second line and ask for it to have Number B

Cost
POTS line A £36
POTS line B £36 plus any installation cost - don't know what BT would
charge
ADSL eg Tiscali 3* £15 for 2mbit/sec connection

Total quarterly charge £117 - so definitely rather better value in the long
term despite installation charges

Disadvantages:
1) Can't get Tiscali to install ADSL until (some weeks) after HH has been
converted to POTS
2) Have to borrow a modem to provide internet access in the interim
3) For my friend at his rural location, getting BT to find an additional
pair for the new line may be quite difficult.

BT has shot themselves in the foot over this one, because it will put such
pressure on the demand for additional lines. Given that ISDN2e will still
be supported as a mechanism for connecting multi-line PABXs for businesses,
what they should have done is simply say that all HH would be converted free
to ISDN2e with a free router.

They could then have made even more efficient use of the single pair by
providing ADSL over ISDN (i.e. Annex B) as is extensively available in
Germany.

--
Graham

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> Anyway, my situation is this
> BTHH: Number A - phone
> BTHH: Number B - fax
> Separate analog line: Number C - ZEN ADSL
> I asked BT to replace the BTHH box with *two* phone sockets, carrying
> numbers A & B. This is pretty obvious, but they can't do it. All they
> can do is replace the BTHH box with *one* socket and then install a
> separate line for the 2nd line, so you now have two wires dangling to
> your house.

This is because ISDN uses 1 pair for both channels, but you need one
pair for each line with analogue

> Why can't the engineer
> (1) Replace the the BTHH cable (the one in the air) with a 4-core one,
> and

If a new drop wire is installed it probably will be 2-pair, but the
engineer will probably not do unnecessary work like moving the existing
line onto this pair and removing the old wire

> (2) Replace the BTHH box with two sockets

The engineer will fit the new linebox where you want it, within reason.
If you ask nicely and it's not too much work you'll get your two sockets
together.

> I know for a fact that the cable from the box in the loft (which
> happens to have a master socket on it) to the BTHH box has enough
> cores for two lines.

Then the engineer will probably reuse that - provided the regulations
haven't changed since that was installed and they're not allowed in
lofts any more.

> I asked an engineer to contact me first, but this is not allowed,
> apparently. What a load of wankers BT are.



> I also need to coordinate with ZEN to transfer the ADSL service from
> number C to number B, after BT do the BTHH removal. *Then* the BT
> engineer needs to come back and remove the rather messy cabling on
> Number C, or can I just rip it off? It goes all the way to the
> telephone pole.

DO you really need to keep the fax number, or could you drop it and use
Number C for fax? This would avoid renumbering the ADSL line. You can
get a changed number announcement for up to a year on the ceased Number
C for a small charge.

You can get two numbers on one line using BT call sign, and some fax
machines can be set to recognise the distinctive ringing for the second
number. (This does not give you phone and fax simultaneously.) Or you
could use fax>email or VoIP services on the ADSL line.

Owain

Phil Thompson <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote

>On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 19:00:14 +0000, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>
>>Incredibly, they are offering to replace it with just ONE line, not
>>two lines which is what one has been paying the rental for.
>
>you pay for the rental of one ISDN line, what you do with it is up to
>you. Highway actually has 3 numbers.

Indeed, but the BTHH rental is similar (same?) to two analog lines. I
don't use the 3rd number anymore (it was used for a router-router
VPN).

>>Anyway, my situation is this
>>
>>BTHH: Number A - phone
>>BTHH: Number B - fax
>>
>>Separate analog line: Number C - ZEN ADSL
>
>do you want to keep C ?

No, that is a throwaway number.

>You can also use callsign to run two numbers on one analogue line via
>distinctive ringing. This widens the options.

Not good for phone+fax+ADSL.

>>I also need to coordinate with ZEN to transfer the ADSL service from
>>number C to number B, after BT do the BTHH removal. *Then* the BT
>>engineer needs to come back and remove the rather messy cabling on
>>Number C, or can I just rip it off? It goes all the way to the
>>telephone pole.
>
>you can't rip it off.

BT told me the engineer will not visit twice (unless I pay another
£120).

>Why not move number B to line C and keep number A on the highway line
>converted to analogue ? No more lines and you keep A and B numbers.

That's what BT offered me. The problem is that C is a messy
installation, with a cable running halfway around the outside of the
house. It seems daft to retain this plus the BTHH cabling, when the
latter contains all the wires required for two analog lines.

The other issue is that BT are obviously banking on not many people
actually using any ISDN features, like the 3rd number or having the
home phone a virtual extension (i.e. being on the same ring group) of
an ISDN PBX at the office. Very handy for a small 2-person business if
both happen to be away or ill. That is why I kept BTHH and paid the
extra line rental for several years. Presumably the only solution
which retains this is to put in ISDN2 and an ISDN PBX?

I already have a 2-16 analog PBX which plugs into the BTHH box. Could
one get ISDN2 put in, with a similar rental to BTHH, with a simple
adaptor to give me 2 analog lines? Of course I would then need to
retain the analog line for C / ADSL.

One cannot meaningfully talk to BT about this, it appears.

"Graham" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote

>What you could do:
>
>1) BTHH Number A : convert to POTS with number A
>
>2) Separate analog line: Number C - ZEN ADSL : convert this to number B.
>Then plug fax machine into it. Zen & BT between them should ensure that your
>ADSL service is unbroken!!!

This is what BT offered but it leaves all the present messy wiring in
place.

>A) replace HH with ISDN2e and add a suitable router - expensive because
>IDSN2e is only now available on a business tariff.

which answers my other question in this thread....

>POTS line B £36 plus any installation cost - don't know what BT would
>charge

BT offered me to waive the 2nd line installation charge

>BT has shot themselves in the foot over this one, because it will put such
>pressure on the demand for additional lines. Given that ISDN2e will still
>be supported as a mechanism for connecting multi-line PABXs for businesses,
>what they should have done is simply say that all HH would be converted free
>to ISDN2e with a free router.
>
>They could then have made even more efficient use of the single pair by
>providing ADSL over ISDN (i.e. Annex B) as is extensively available in
>Germany.

Curious why they didn't do that, since the *original* reason for not
doing it was obviously to stop BTHH users from getting ADSL and then
(once they get to like it) downgrading the BTHH to a single line
That isn't a problem anymore, of course...

(E-Mail Removed) wrote :
>> You can also use callsign to run two numbers on one analogue line via
>> distinctive ringing. This widens the options.
>
> Not good for phone+fax+ADSL.

Why not?

(E-Mail Removed) formulated on Friday :
> Curious why they didn't do that, since the *original* reason for not
> doing it was obviously to stop BTHH users from getting ADSL and then
> (once they get to like it) downgrading the BTHH to a single line
> That isn't a problem anymore, of course...

How many BTHH users do you think they had/have?