BT ADSL V1.0 faceplate - no need for microfilters?

I was at a customer's house yesterday putting the finishing touches to a
broadband installation now that the line had been activated.

BT had installed an ADSL V1.0 faceplate (I think that's how it was labelled)
when they were doing some other work for her.

I'd bought microfilters, but it suddenly dawned on me that broadband was
working fine even before I'd inserted them: there was at least one
unfiltered telephone on the line.

So does an ADSL faceplate cause the rest of the house wiring (out of the
back of the socket) to be filtered? I'd assumed that it was just a socket
and microfilter combined - that its two outputs would be filtered and
unfiltered respectively but that the rest of the house wiring from the back
of the socket would be unfiltered and would need microfilters.

As it happens things have worked out well and the customer has avoided £6
apiece for the three microfilters. However there's a more important aspect:
if a house has an ADSL faceplate, does that mean that unless BT remove it,
you are restricted to only connecting your router/modem to that one place
and can't re-site it at any other phone point in the house?

As a matter of interest, are manufacturers going to start incorporating ADSL
filters into new phones, fax machines etc to avoid the need for separate
microfilters?

"Martin Underwood" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:4333c63f$0$15059$(E-Mail Removed):

> So does an ADSL faceplate cause the rest of the house wiring (out of
> the back of the socket) to be filtered? I'd assumed that it was just a
> socket and microfilter combined - that its two outputs would be
> filtered and unfiltered respectively but that the rest of the house
> wiring from the back of the socket would be unfiltered and would need
> microfilters.

Yes, all extensions wired to the back of this faceplate is filtered. I
have one of these faceplates (installed before the availability of
"self-install").

> As it happens things have worked out well and the customer has avoided
> £6 apiece for the three microfilters. However there's a more important
> aspect: if a house has an ADSL faceplate, does that mean that unless
> BT remove it, you are restricted to only connecting your router/modem
> to that one place and can't re-site it at any other phone point in the
> house?

You could always run an extension cable from the RJ45 socket, or get
hold of the lower part of an NTE5 master socket and fit it yourself.


--
Phil
http://www.philipchung.co.uk/

On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:09:14 +0100, "Martin Underwood" <(E-Mail Removed)>
scrawled:

>I'd bought microfilters, but it suddenly dawned on me that broadband was
>working fine even before I'd inserted them: there was at least one
>unfiltered telephone on the line.
>
Not using filters doesn't necesarily mean that broadband won't work,
it just means that the connection may be unreliable and\or there is
noise on the line when you're trying to make\receive voice calls.

>So does an ADSL faceplate cause the rest of the house wiring (out of the
>back of the socket) to be filtered? I'd assumed that it was just a socket
>and microfilter combined - that its two outputs would be filtered and
>unfiltered respectively but that the rest of the house wiring from the back
>of the socket would be unfiltered and would need microfilters.
>
There are 2 types of ADSL faceplate filters available for the BT
master sockets. One just has terminals on the back which are filtered
to provide a filtered feed to extension wiring and the other type are
the same but with the addition of unfiltered terminals so a seperate
pair can be run to a specific unfiltered socket for use with the ADSL
modem. ADSL Natrion and Clarity both do ADSL filtered sockets abnd
ADSL Nation have a range of filtered and unfiltered extension sockets
so you can get rid of dangly filters for evermore!

>As it happens things have worked out well and the customer has avoided £6
>apiece for the three microfilters. However there's a more important aspect:
>if a house has an ADSL faceplate, does that mean that unless BT remove it,
>you are restricted to only connecting your router/modem to that one place
>and can't re-site it at any other phone point in the house?
>
No, if it's a lower half replacement of the NTE5 then you can remove
it, change it for a modified one and put the modem elsewhere.

>As a matter of interest, are manufacturers going to start incorporating ADSL
>filters into new phones, fax machines etc to avoid the need for separate
>microfilters?
>
Doubtful as a) it would add cost to the product b) they'd use the
cheapest components possible and anyone with marginal levels on the
ADSL line would have to buy additional filters and top quality phones
to be able to get it to work c) the same product is generally shipped
pretty much worldwide in some cases so ADSL filters would probably be
useless for the majority.
--
Stuart @ SJW Electrical

Please Reply to group

In article <4333c63f$0$15059$(E-Mail Removed)>,
Martin Underwood <(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>I was at a customer's house yesterday putting the finishing touches to a
>broadband installation now that the line had been activated.
>
>BT had installed an ADSL V1.0 faceplate (I think that's how it was
>labelled) when they were doing some other work for her.
>
>I'd bought microfilters, but it suddenly dawned on me that broadband was
>working fine even before I'd inserted them: there was at least one
>unfiltered telephone on the line.

Yes, broadband would be working, because this is never normally
filtered. The function of an ADSL filter is to keep the ADSL signal
away from the phones.

--
Thoss

"thoss" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:M79vj7Ax5$(E-Mail Removed)...
> In article <4333c63f$0$15059$(E-Mail Removed)>,
> Martin Underwood <(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>>I was at a customer's house yesterday putting the finishing touches to a
>>broadband installation now that the line had been activated.
>>
>>BT had installed an ADSL V1.0 faceplate (I think that's how it was
>>labelled) when they were doing some other work for her.
>>
>>I'd bought microfilters, but it suddenly dawned on me that broadband was
>>working fine even before I'd inserted them: there was at least one
>>unfiltered telephone on the line.
>
> Yes, broadband would be working, because this is never normally
> filtered. The function of an ADSL filter is to keep the ADSL signal
> away from the phones.

My point was that broadband requires its signal not to be shorted through a
phone - hence every phone must be isolated from the ADSL-enabled line by a
microfilter.

As others have pointed out and I hadn't realised, an ADSL faceplate filters
not only the output at the BT socket on the faceplate but also the rest of
the house wiring between the master socket and any other sockets.

I realise that the RJ11 ADSL socket is unfiltered: a router could be
connected directly to the BT line without needing a microfilter: it's only
when you start connecting phones, faxes etc that you need filters.

Martin Underwood wrote:
> I realise that the RJ11 ADSL socket is unfiltered: a router could be
> connected directly to the BT line without needing a microfilter: it's
> only when you start connecting phones, faxes etc that you need
> filters.

Not quite, as the filter can & does put some loading onto the ADSL
circuit (if you Google back over the last year or so you will find a few
such postings have been put on this very group, where peoples routers
wouldn't work unless they were connected via a filter). Also some
customers have experienced problems when they receive calls from one of
the many infamous random number dialers used by tele sales companies
with the call causing the router to loose synch. Which is one of the
reasons why some broadband customers (who are using the line only for
the BB connection) order ICB lines (I've even met up with a few OCB &
ICB lines on certain projects)

"Kraftee" <(E-Mail Removed) please we're bristish.com> wrote
in message news:433457d3$0$73607$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Martin Underwood wrote:
> > I realise that the RJ11 ADSL socket is unfiltered: a router could be
> > connected directly to the BT line without needing a microfilter: it's
> > only when you start connecting phones, faxes etc that you need
> > filters.
>
> Not quite, as the filter can & does put some loading onto the ADSL
> circuit (if you Google back over the last year or so you will find a few
> such postings have been put on this very group, where peoples routers
> wouldn't work unless they were connected via a filter). Also some
> customers have experienced problems when they receive calls from one of
> the many infamous random number dialers used by tele sales companies
> with the call causing the router to loose synch. Which is one of the
> reasons why some broadband customers (who are using the line only for
> the BB connection) order ICB lines (I've even met up with a few OCB &
> ICB lines on certain projects)


All the ADSL filters I have examined have the ADSL port connected directly
to the line and have a low-pass filter connecting the line to the POTS port.

Are you saying that you know of a filter that contains a high-pass filter to
pass the ADSL?

Have I misunderstood what you said about Tele-sales diallers? How can one
type of incoming call cause your router to lose sync and others not?

Also were the lines with OG and IC call-barring provided "in house" for BT?
I thought BT wouldn't supply a line exclusively for ADSL

--
Graham.



%Profound_observation%

On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 22:28:41 +0100, "Graham" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>All the ADSL filters I have examined have the ADSL port connected directly
>to the line and have a low-pass filter connecting the line to the POTS port.
>

the filter circuit does sit across the line though
http://www.adslnation.com/images/fil...icrofilter.gif

so some interaction of a filter with the ADSL is possible.

Phil
--
Tiscali - dialup speeds at Broadband prices, see
http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/postlist...&Board=tiscali

AOL - the unlimited ISP of choice for heavy downloaders.

Graham wrote:
> "Kraftee" <(E-Mail Removed) please we're bristish.com>
> wrote in message
>
> All the ADSL filters I have examined have the ADSL port connected
> directly to the line and have a low-pass filter connecting the line
> to the POTS port.

Any circutry connected will make a difference, no matter how slight, &
as I have already said there have been cases reported on this very group
over the last 12 months were ADSL routers would not synch when
connected directly to a line, but did when connected thru a filter...
>
> Are you saying that you know of a filter that contains a high-pass
> filter to pass the ADSL?

No & you know I'm not...

>
> Have I misunderstood what you said about Tele-sales diallers? How can
> one type of incoming call cause your router to lose sync and others
> not?

ANY type of calls, I used telesales random dialers as an example where
calls to lines, which normally wouldn't receive calls, can happen.

>
> Also were the lines with OG and IC call-barring provided "in house"
> for BT? I thought BT wouldn't supply a line exclusively for ADSL

Think again,

Try just reading & not trying to pick holes in other peoples posting
dear chap...

Phil Thompson wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 22:28:41 +0100, "Graham" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> All the ADSL filters I have examined have the ADSL port connected
>> directly to the line and have a low-pass filter connecting the line
>> to the POTS port.
>>
>
> the filter circuit does sit across the line though
> http://www.adslnation.com/images/fil...icrofilter.gif
>
> so some interaction of a filter with the ADSL is possible.
>

Ta Phil, nice to know some one else on this group actually puts their
brain in gear before posting...