Brow-beaten by browsing

I have been working with a client of mine on some network browsing
issues. To start off I sat down and read
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/188001/en-us to get an exact description of
the ins and outs of the browser service. That having been said, reading the
Technet article just left me with a few more questions. In the "Summary" it
states that "Microsoft Active Directory services in Windows 2000 and Windows
XP replace the computer browser service". How? The article continues to
state that NetBIOS resolution is provided as a backward compatibility
functionality for older clients. This seems to infer that only Windows 9x
PCs should be using network browsing.
If this is the case, the how are the 2000 and XP clients supposed to be
finding resources? Are my users expected to type in Active Directory
queries every time they go looking for that one file on the server that they
were on last week who's name they cannot quite recall? Is there a newer,
better way to get a domain-wide list of available resources and shares that
I missed? I do not mean to sound overtly critical, but I am absolutely
confused by the implications of this article.
In any case, since I am still saddled with network browsing issues, does
anyone have any advice? The problem is that I have all my servers in one
subnet, and all my PCs in others (varies by physical location). The good
news is that all of the subnets are connected to the servers via fiber. Is
it practical/feasible to prevent all the PCs from becoming or electing
master browsers? If the PCs have no master browser in their respective
subnets, will they pull the browsing list from the PDC emulator in the
server subnet?

Also, does anyone know if this hotfix was included in Service Pack 1 for
Windows 2003? http://support.microsoft.com/kb/843517/en-us

Thanks for listening,
Jeff

Hi Jeff,

Yes, your users are supposed to learn to search the AD instead
of using the browse feature. Not a good solution considering there
are applications that rely on the browse list. In your situation (seperate
subnets) you'll need some form of NetBIOS name resolution in place
e.g., WINS or lmhosts. Have a look at the following Article:

Domain Browsing with TCP/IP and LMHOSTS Files
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/150800/en-us

"Jeff the Network Guy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:
> I have been working with a client of mine on some network browsing
> issues. To start off I sat down and read
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/188001/en-us to get an exact description
> of the ins and outs of the browser service. That having been said,
> reading the Technet article just left me with a few more questions. In
> the "Summary" it states that "Microsoft Active Directory services in
> Windows 2000 and Windows XP replace the computer browser service". How?
> The article continues to state that NetBIOS resolution is provided as a
> backward compatibility functionality for older clients. This seems to
> infer that only Windows 9x PCs should be using network browsing.
> If this is the case, the how are the 2000 and XP clients supposed to be
> finding resources? Are my users expected to type in Active Directory
> queries every time they go looking for that one file on the server that
> they were on last week who's name they cannot quite recall? Is there a
> newer, better way to get a domain-wide list of available resources and
> shares that I missed? I do not mean to sound overtly critical, but I am
> absolutely confused by the implications of this article.
> In any case, since I am still saddled with network browsing issues,
> does anyone have any advice? The problem is that I have all my servers
> in one subnet, and all my PCs in others (varies by physical location).
> The good news is that all of the subnets are connected to the servers via
> fiber. Is it practical/feasible to prevent all the PCs from becoming or
> electing master browsers? If the PCs have no master browser in their
> respective subnets, will they pull the browsing list from the PDC emulator
> in the server subnet?
>
> Also, does anyone know if this hotfix was included in Service Pack 1 for
> Windows 2003? http://support.microsoft.com/kb/843517/en-us
>
> Thanks for listening,
> Jeff
>

Thankfully I have a good WINS hierarchy setup. I guess what I do not really
understand is what will happen when a PC goes to browse the network if there
is no Master Browser in its subnet? Keep in mind I am planning on disabling
all PCs capability of being a master browser or forcing an election, so that
only my servers (which are not in the same subnet as the PCs) are master
browsers.


"Michael Giorgio - MS MVP" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi Jeff,
>
> Yes, your users are supposed to learn to search the AD instead
> of using the browse feature. Not a good solution considering there
> are applications that rely on the browse list. In your situation
> (seperate
> subnets) you'll need some form of NetBIOS name resolution in place
> e.g., WINS or lmhosts. Have a look at the following Article:
>
> Domain Browsing with TCP/IP and LMHOSTS Files
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/150800/en-us
>
> "Jeff the Network Guy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:
>> I have been working with a client of mine on some network browsing
>> issues. To start off I sat down and read
>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/188001/en-us to get an exact description
>> of the ins and outs of the browser service. That having been said,
>> reading the Technet article just left me with a few more questions. In
>> the "Summary" it states that "Microsoft Active Directory services in
>> Windows 2000 and Windows XP replace the computer browser service". How?
>> The article continues to state that NetBIOS resolution is provided as a
>> backward compatibility functionality for older clients. This seems to
>> infer that only Windows 9x PCs should be using network browsing.
>> If this is the case, the how are the 2000 and XP clients supposed to
>> be finding resources? Are my users expected to type in Active Directory
>> queries every time they go looking for that one file on the server that
>> they were on last week who's name they cannot quite recall? Is there a
>> newer, better way to get a domain-wide list of available resources and
>> shares that I missed? I do not mean to sound overtly critical, but I am
>> absolutely confused by the implications of this article.
>> In any case, since I am still saddled with network browsing issues,
>> does anyone have any advice? The problem is that I have all my servers
>> in one subnet, and all my PCs in others (varies by physical location).
>> The good news is that all of the subnets are connected to the servers via
>> fiber. Is it practical/feasible to prevent all the PCs from becoming or
>> electing master browsers? If the PCs have no master browser in their
>> respective subnets, will they pull the browsing list from the PDC
>> emulator in the server subnet?
>>
>> Also, does anyone know if this hotfix was included in Service Pack 1 for
>> Windows 2003? http://support.microsoft.com/kb/843517/en-us
>>
>> Thanks for listening,
>> Jeff
>>
>
>

Some would argue that disabling the service on all machine or
preventing them from maintaining the browse list (same thing)
is not a good idea due to network overhead.. Here is how it
works basically:

Each subnet will have 1 subnet master browser (SMB) responsible
for gathering the local list and passing it back to the domain master
browser (DMB) as well as passing the merged list from the DMB
back to the clients on its subnet who request the list. The DMB is
responsible for gathering the lists from all SMBs as well as querying
WINS for all domain name 1b entries to find other DMBS to add
the list. It will merge the entire list and pass back to all SMBs.
The DMB, by default, will be the SMB for its local endpoint.

Most of the time when a client doesn't show up in the list it either
is not registering with the same SMB as the rest of the computers,
cannot find the SMB, or is blocking NetBIOS which is a necessary
part of the browse process.




"Jeff the Network Guy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:
> Thankfully I have a good WINS hierarchy setup. I guess what I do not
> really understand is what will happen when a PC goes to browse the network
> if there is no Master Browser in its subnet? Keep in mind I am planning
> on disabling all PCs capability of being a master browser or forcing an
> election, so that only my servers (which are not in the same subnet as the
> PCs) are master browsers.

So if all the clients were prevented from becoming a master browser, then
all client PCs would submit all browse list requests to the Domain Master
Browser?

"Michael Giorgio - MS MVP" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Some would argue that disabling the service on all machine or
> preventing them from maintaining the browse list (same thing)
> is not a good idea due to network overhead.. Here is how it
> works basically:
>
> Each subnet will have 1 subnet master browser (SMB) responsible
> for gathering the local list and passing it back to the domain master
> browser (DMB) as well as passing the merged list from the DMB
> back to the clients on its subnet who request the list. The DMB is
> responsible for gathering the lists from all SMBs as well as querying
> WINS for all domain name 1b entries to find other DMBS to add
> the list. It will merge the entire list and pass back to all SMBs.
> The DMB, by default, will be the SMB for its local endpoint.
>
> Most of the time when a client doesn't show up in the list it either
> is not registering with the same SMB as the rest of the computers,
> cannot find the SMB, or is blocking NetBIOS which is a necessary
> part of the browse process.
>
>
>
>
> "Jeff the Network Guy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:
>> Thankfully I have a good WINS hierarchy setup. I guess what I do not
>> really understand is what will happen when a PC goes to browse the
>> network if there is no Master Browser in its subnet? Keep in mind I am
>> planning on disabling all PCs capability of being a master browser or
>> forcing an election, so that only my servers (which are not in the same
>> subnet as the PCs) are master browsers.
>
>

Good question. The answer is no. You'll have an
empty browse list.

"Jeff the Network Guy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:
> So if all the clients were prevented from becoming a master browser, then
> all client PCs would submit all browse list requests to the Domain Master
> Browser?
>

I guess what this all comes down to is what is the "best practice" for
browsing/ network bandwidth usage when dealing with a situation where all my
servers are in one subnet and all of my PCs are in five other subnets. All
subnets are connected via fiber.
In my situation, my client is complaining primarily about the lack of
control/inconsistency with regards to browse list maintenance, and the fact
that any crappy PC can be saddled with the duty of handling out browse lists
to all of its bretheren at any moment. It would seem that this is a task
that should belong to servers, much like every other administrative network
task (DHCP, WINS, DNS, etc..). It just seems like I am missing something
here with regards to how things "should be done". It is that, or I just
discovered one of the ugliest warts in all of Windows-based networks.

Still being brow-beaten,
Jeff

There is a list of list of crieteras for each machine on the
network and the DCs are definately higher on the list:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/102878/en-us

My point is that you have to have at least 1 machine maintaining
the browse list in each subnet. You can control this by turning
of the computer browse list on all other machines. You don't want
NetBIOS broadcasting or forwarding on the routers e.g., netBIOS
helper applications running which will forward the SMB requests out
of the subnet like you are trying acheive. Make 1 machine in each
subnet the master. Another way to do this is leave the computer
browser service on all machines and edit the IsDomainMaster on
those machines to yes. The following explains the process:
HKLM \SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Browser\Paramet ers\IsDomainMaster .
IsDomainMaster parameter information: . When set to 1, this parameter
provides a priority boost to increase its likely hood of winning a master
browser election. It does not allow the browse server to become the domain
master browser. This value is a boolean value and can be any of the
following: Yes/No, True/False, or 1/0.

. MaintainServerList: . When set to NO, the server is not a browse
server.
. When set to YES, the server becomes a browse server.
. When set to AUTO, the server becomes a browse master if the
master browser asks it do so.



Good luck.
"Jeff the Network Guy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:
> I guess what this all comes down to is what is the "best practice" for
> browsing/ network bandwidth usage when dealing with a situation where all
> my servers are in one subnet and all of my PCs are in five other subnets.
> All subnets are connected via fiber.
> In my situation, my client is complaining primarily about the lack of
> control/inconsistency with regards to browse list maintenance, and the
> fact that any crappy PC can be saddled with the duty of handling out
> browse lists to all of its bretheren at any moment. It would seem that
> this is a task that should belong to servers, much like every other
> administrative network task (DHCP, WINS, DNS, etc..). It just seems like
> I am missing something here with regards to how things "should be done".
> It is that, or I just discovered one of the ugliest warts in all of
> Windows-based networks.
>

One correction, That is: turn off the computer browser service
not the computer browse list.


"Jeff the Network Guy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> I guess what this all comes down to is what is the "best practice" for
> browsing/ network bandwidth usage when dealing with a situation where all
> my servers are in one subnet and all of my PCs are in five other subnets.
> All subnets are connected via fiber.
> In my situation, my client is complaining primarily about the lack of
> control/inconsistency with regards to browse list maintenance, and the
> fact that any crappy PC can be saddled with the duty of handling out
> browse lists to all of its bretheren at any moment. It would seem that
> this is a task that should belong to servers, much like every other
> administrative network task (DHCP, WINS, DNS, etc..). It just seems like
> I am missing something here with regards to how things "should be done".
> It is that, or I just discovered one of the ugliest warts in all of
> Windows-based networks.
>
> Still being brow-beaten,
> Jeff
>