Will broadband work in this case?

Hope one of you broadband guru's can answer this.

I have a friend who has asked me to sort out broadband for them. They
have two BT lines and two different numbers (I don't think they are
DACS, though they are in a very rural location) phone lines into the
house. Once the phone lines reach the house (where the outside 'box' is
located) they both then travel approximately 20 to 30 metres around the
outside of the house (in opposite directions) before going inside.

My question is, does the recommended 'no more than 10m from the master
socket' mean from the box on the outside of the house or from the first
socket inside the house?

I don't suppose there is anyway to see if it would work without
actually going through the sign-up and activation process. Can anyone
recommend an ISP that only has a one month contract just in case it
doesn't work? I assume the ISP only accepts responsibilty for getting
it to the house?

Hope this makes sense.
TIA,
dw

On 26 Apr 2006 03:28:44 -0700, "dw" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>My question is, does the recommended 'no more than 10m from the master
>socket' mean from the box on the outside of the house or from the first
>socket inside the house?

The master socket is the one inside the house, having some additional
components to any extension sockets which might be fitted. The master
has 2 wires from the outside, and can then feed 3 to other sockets (the
extra wire is the "ring wire"). I'm far from expert, just a user, but
I'd expect if either line is accepted (and with the changes which are
going on, people who previously had only 500 kbps have reported some
higher speed), it seems more likely than ever that a connection may
now be achieved!

>I don't suppose there is anyway to see if it would work without
>actually going through the sign-up and activation process.

Not really, though the checkers online will give an idea of whether the
line(s) are deemed unusable or restricted to low speeds. At the very
worst, one could consider the Zen 250/250 account which seems to be
usable where someone has all things against getting service!

>Can anyone recommend an ISP that only has a one month contract just in
>case it doesn't work? I assume the ISP only accepts responsibilty for
>getting it to the house?

If it doesn't work, and BT Wholesale says "not possible" there would be
no activation charge anyway. Most of the deals to cover activation (of
40 + any fees the ISP adds on +VAT) need 12 months contract. Peter.

> I don't suppose there is anyway to see if it would work without
> actually going through the sign-up and activation process. Can anyone
> recommend an ISP that only has a one month contract just in case it
> doesn't work? I assume the ISP only accepts responsibilty for getting
> it to the house?


Put the numbers into the BT line checker and see. If it says it will work
then they need to choose an ISP. If it does not work they will not be
charged.

Peter Crosland

"dw" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in news:1146047324.901358.142330
@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com:

> ...'no more than 10m from the master socket'...

Errm, given that the distance between comsumer premises and the
exchange can be several kilometres, what difference does a few metres
make?

On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 21:46:11 GMT, Frazer Jolly Goodfellow
<no-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>"dw" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in news:1146047324.901358.142330
>@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com:
>
>> ...'no more than 10m from the master socket'...
>
>Errm, given that the distance between comsumer premises and the
>exchange can be several kilometres, what difference does a few metres
>make?

It is completely different wiring inside the house.

Plus it is more likely to have interference from domestic electrical
circuits.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Old age is better than the alternative.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

Frazer Jolly Goodfellow wrote:
> "dw" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in news:1146047324.901358.142330
> @v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com:
>
>> ...'no more than 10m from the master socket'...
>
> Errm, given that the distance between comsumer premises and the
> exchange can be several kilometres, what difference does a few
> metres make?

Make that 30mtrs from the master socket & it would be more correct.

Remembering also that the internal wiring is far more problematic
noise & loss wise than the external network.

>Not really, though the checkers online will give an idea of whether the
>line(s) are deemed unusable or restricted to low speeds. At the very
>worst, one could consider the Zen 250/250 account which seems to be
>usable where someone has all things against getting service!
>
Speaking as one who has just managed to get Broadband (albeit quite
slowly) from Zen I would endorse this suggestion. Last year I applied
for the Zen Home 250 Product where Zen was one of the few ISPs using
the BT IP Stream Home 250 product. It failed. Last week I went back
to Zen and they agreed to try MaxDSL. Amazingly it worked (on the
second line attempt by the BT engineer). I am over 9Km from the
exchange. As a result of my experiece Zen has confirmed to me that
all new orders will now be enabled with MaxDSL rather than the IP
Stream product. Place order with Zen (provided MaxDSL gives a "green"
on their checker, order hardware from Zen, pay the connection fee and
first month's subscription and if it all does not work they refund the
whole lot. You have nothing to lose! I have no connection with Zen
but have found them helpful and responsive and they talk to you! As
far as I am concerned, and I have been trying to get broadband since
it was invented, they are heros!

kráftéé wrote:
> Frazer Jolly Goodfellow wrote:
>
>>"dw" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in news:1146047324.901358.142330
>>@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>
>>>...'no more than 10m from the master socket'...
>>
>>Errm, given that the distance between comsumer premises and the
>>exchange can be several kilometres, what difference does a few
>>metres make?
>
>
> Make that 30mtrs from the master socket & it would be more correct.
>
> Remembering also that the internal wiring is far more problematic
> noise & loss wise than the external network.
>
>

Internal wiring worse!!! You should be so lucky!!

My line has joints (usually full of water) outside every pair of houses
all up the street for about 8 joins BEFORE it even reaches a 50pair
cable then a 100pair cable then a cabinet then god knows what before it
reaches the exchange.

At the house, I have just one single length of (good) cable to teh
master socket and spilt the ADSL there.

This is the preferred way inside the customers premises - especially
when a long way from the exchange and is what BT do now in difficult areas.

mike

PS no phone at the moment as BT broke it when repairing one of these
many joints - however ADSL working a sit 'jumps' across bad joints. It
is surprisingly rugged

m wrote:
> kráftéé wrote:
>> Frazer Jolly Goodfellow wrote:
>>
>>> "dw" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>>> news:1146047324.901358.142330 @v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>>
>>>> ...'no more than 10m from the master socket'...
>>>
>>> Errm, given that the distance between comsumer premises and the
>>> exchange can be several kilometres, what difference does a few
>>> metres make?
>>
>>
>> Make that 30mtrs from the master socket & it would be more correct.
>>
>> Remembering also that the internal wiring is far more problematic
>> noise & loss wise than the external network.
>>
>>
>
> Internal wiring worse!!! You should be so lucky!!
>
> My line has joints (usually full of water) outside every pair of
> houses all up the street for about 8 joins BEFORE it even reaches a
> 50pair cable then a 100pair cable then a cabinet then god knows what
> before it reaches the exchange.
>
> At the house, I have just one single length of (good) cable to teh
> master socket and spilt the ADSL there.
>
> This is the preferred way inside the customers premises - especially
> when a long way from the exchange and is what BT do now in
> difficult areas.

Mike try not telling me how to 'suck eggs', ok. I have met up with
many cases where the internal cabling reduces loop loss & increase SNR
so much so that the DSL is un-usable (the one which always come to
mind was an end user whose loop loss at the NTE was 18 dB but after
going thru his wiring maze ended up as over 35dB where he wanted it to
work). They repeatedly reported problems until they were charged over
£130 & then suddenly they pulled their finger out & stop using the
spiders web.

Yes the UG network can cause problems but on average 75% of all ADSL
faults I visit are partially if not fully caused by internal wiring,
sometimes caused by a previous BT engineer not installing or repairing
upto present day standards, but just as likely the end user has caused
the problem using cheap/inferior cables (normally stranded, non
twisted burglar alarm cables or the infamous old damaged flat
extension cable laid under the carpet across a door way).