Broadband problems....Any suggestion on this issue?

Ive been on broadband since Oct 2000, most of the time with few
problems. The socket which I use is an official ADSL box, that has 2
ports on it, though I have only ever used the phone socket using a
filter in this box. (The other is the same type as the modem itself -
though Ive never used it.) That socket is the first point of entry to
the house.)

However, 2 days ago, when I was tidying my computer network room, I
had to disconnect everything to resite.

When everything was put back together, I lost sync on the modem and
unable to connect. I phoned my ISP (Bulldog) who confirmed there was a
fault - and called out a BT engineer after they got me to disconnect
anything plugged in on extensions.

The engineer called today. I wasnt there, but he claims he managed to
sync and connect, but the reason for the problem was an internal
fault. He left and disconected the extension, meaning I had no phone
line connected. (And we were not aware until we tried to make a call
much later.)

He said that broadband now worked. However, I noticed he had used the
other port in that socket - and not via the main phone socket and
filter. I noticed that he had used this one, so changed the connection
and used the filter. It no longer synced. (I then tried to call BT and
realised that he had disconnected our phone extention.

I was told I would need to call out an engineer and pay them to have
the line rechecked and then pay more to have this "fault" rectified.

The thing is, my intitial thought was perhaps the filter had failed -
but he gave no explanation why this second port wasnt working. (He
claimed he had checked it - but clearly he hadnt.)

So, I managed to get another known working filter to try out. Same
result - that filter also didnt work.

Now that engineer claims he disconnected everything apart from the
initial point of entry box - yet there is clearly still a fault in
that box itself.

At least, that is how it seems to me!

He basically said he tested the port and it showed a loop fault. Given
that it still doesnt work even after he has physically unwired the
forward extensions from this, am I right in making the assumption that
it looks fairly certain the fault lies within this box (which they are
responsible for), or have a jumped to a potentially wrong conclusion?

Any help and advice appreciated.

Cheers



--
www.senaction.com

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:30:00 +0000, guv <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> The socket which I use is an official ADSL box, that has 2
>ports on it, though I have only ever used the phone socket using a
>filter in this box. (The other is the same type as the modem itself -
>though Ive never used it.) That socket is the first point of entry to
>the house.)

if this is a filtered faceplate the ADSL should only be on the RJ45
socket and the BT type socket should be filtered. If the modem worked
plugged into the BT type socket you must have a very strong signal
that can get through the voice port of the filter !

Are you saying a phone won't work plugged into the BT type socket on
the filtered faceplate ?

if you unplug the lower half of the filtered faceplate the test socket
revealed at the back is direct to the line - does the phone work there
? if not report a voice fault on 151

Phil

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 22:08:11 +0000, Phil Thompson
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:30:00 +0000, guv <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> The socket which I use is an official ADSL box, that has 2
>>ports on it, though I have only ever used the phone socket using a
>>filter in this box. (The other is the same type as the modem itself -
>>though Ive never used it.) That socket is the first point of entry to
>>the house.)
>
>if this is a filtered faceplate the ADSL should only be on the RJ45
>socket and the BT type socket should be filtered. If the modem worked
>plugged into the BT type socket you must have a very strong signal
>that can get through the voice port of the filter !

As mentioned, when BT originally fitted the socket, it was them that
plugged in the filter to the phone part of the socket, with the modem
plugged into the filter/adapter also. I hadnt even realised that the
modem type socket could be used on the face plate. (I do now of course
- since thats now the only way I can connect - though the issue for me
is the fact they have removed the connection from this to the living
room.)

>Are you saying a phone won't work plugged into the BT type socket on
>the filtered faceplate ?

No, it did work prior and still does. Its now the only phone point
that works in the house. The engineer physically disconnected what
they describe as an extension - though I am assuming it was in the
ADSL socket, I really am not 100% sure. He certainly didnt look or
touch any cabling inside the house, except maybe the ADSL socket
itself. Im assuming this is what he has done, since I think once it
leaves the garage, its a straight cable and nowhere he could
disconnect without physically cutting the cable - and Im sure he didnt
do that!

My setup is probably a little unique, in that the point of entry was
at the front door. Since my computer office is now in my garage (and I
didnt want loads of trailing cable), the line now first enters in the
garage, then goes back out at the same point, over the garage, then
reconnects that to the original point of entry. Technically they are
correct in that the living room socket is an extention.

>if you unplug the lower half of the filtered faceplate the test socket
>revealed at the back is direct to the line - does the phone work there
>? if not report a voice fault on 151

Not sure what you refer to here Phil.

I have uploaded a couple of pics so you can see:
http://www.7of9.co.uk/phone/phone.htm

The first one you can see the 2 ports on the socket plate. The one on
the left is where the ADSL line is now connected. On the right is the
phone line. You will see on the photo below, that same socket with the
filter plugged in. Ignore the fact the modem isnt connected to the
filter (as I am online as I type) - normally it is plugged into the
empty filter socket and the second port is empty. Hope that makes
sense!

Cheers



--
www.senaction.com

guv wrote:
> I have uploaded a couple of pics so you can see:
> http://www.7of9.co.uk/phone/phone.htm
>
> The first one you can see the 2 ports on the socket plate. The one on
> the left is where the ADSL line is now connected. On the right is the
> phone line. You will see on the photo below, that same socket with the
> filter plugged in. Ignore the fact the modem isnt connected to the
> filter (as I am online as I type) - normally it is plugged into the
> empty filter socket and the second port is empty. Hope that makes
> sense!

You shouldn't be using the plugin filter with that faceplate & very much
doubt that it ever worked that way.

The top picture is correct (nice to see you're still using the good old
stingray/frog) the one below will not work with the ADSL plugged into your
extra filter as the ADSL signal is being filtered out by the faceplate
filter & so will not be present on the ADSL port of the plug in.....

As for any problems with normal extensions, they would have been connected
to the back of the faceplate filter vis IDC connectors & so would be easy to
disconnect (just pull them out/off) BUT if it was a dedicated digital
extesnion (with a RJ11 socket) BT are supoposed to maintain them & this
would have plugged into the RJ45 on the frontof the faceplate (the one on
the left).

Hope this clears things up for you...

The whole point about using a filtered faceplate is that you do not require
any other filters.

The only thing that puzzles me is how you ever got an ADSL signal from the
POTS socket of the faceplate in the first place.

So connect your modem to the RJ45 (lefthand socket)
And all your phones to the BT socket (or Krone them to the back of the
faceplate) and forget about additional filters.

--
Graham.



%Profound_observation%

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 23:26:19 -0000, "kraftee" <kraftee@spamoff&
die.com> wrote:

>guv wrote:
>> I have uploaded a couple of pics so you can see:
>> http://www.7of9.co.uk/phone/phone.htm
>>
>> The first one you can see the 2 ports on the socket plate. The one on
>> the left is where the ADSL line is now connected. On the right is the
>> phone line. You will see on the photo below, that same socket with the
>> filter plugged in. Ignore the fact the modem isnt connected to the
>> filter (as I am online as I type) - normally it is plugged into the
>> empty filter socket and the second port is empty. Hope that makes
>> sense!
>
>You shouldn't be using the plugin filter with that faceplate & very much
>doubt that it ever worked that way.

Well it has been working as in photo2 with the filter plugged in to
the phone line socket and the phone line and modem plugged into that.
Been happily doing so for over 4 years - and it *was* how the BT
engineer originally fitted it!

>The top picture is correct (nice to see you're still using the good old
>stingray/frog) the one below will not work with the ADSL plugged into your
>extra filter as the ADSL signal is being filtered out by the faceplate
>filter & so will not be present on the ADSL port of the plug in.....

OK thanks. Would appear the original engineer didnt connect it
correctly from day one! (BTW this is frog 2! - the original died about
18 months ago!) However, if what you have said above is correct, would
you describe this as a fault since I can (correction - could) connect
with the modem plugged into the filter with the phone line in tandem.

Because the socket is not particulary accessible and out of site, its
the first time I have noticed the symbols for a phone and computer on
the now very grubby faceplate! As I mentioned, I was installed on the
4th day of ADSL rollout in the country - but even so, Im suprised the
engineer hadnt realised the modem needed to be plugged in to the port
marked with a PC symbol! ;-)

>As for any problems with normal extensions, they would have been connected
>to the back of the faceplate filter vis IDC connectors & so would be easy to
>disconnect (just pull them out/off) BUT if it was a dedicated digital
>extesnion (with a RJ11 socket) BT are supoposed to maintain them & this
>would have plugged into the RJ45 on the frontof the faceplate (the one on
>the left).

It had - but the last bit has now confused! ;-)

The socket is the only item at the location. It is fed and inturn
feeds back out with a second cable, which has an entry and exit at the
same point in the wall. There is no dedicated digital extension (as
far as I am aware). Both cables are still connected to the socket (ie
there is no trailing cable) - but guess one could be just lose inside
the socket. Ive never opened one of these boxes, but would I be
correct in assuming there would be no problem in uscrewing and simply
reconnect if he has disconnected? Not sure what IDC connectors are!
(sorry for being dumb!)

Its certainly annoying if he has disconnected because I was unable to
connect the internet via what you have said is an incorrect
configuration when it was first installed and had been working fine!

Cheers



--
www.senaction.com

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 23:39:31 -0000, "Graham" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>The whole point about using a filtered faceplate is that you do not require
>any other filters.
>
>The only thing that puzzles me is how you ever got an ADSL signal from the
>POTS socket of the faceplate in the first place.
>
>So connect your modem to the RJ45 (lefthand socket)
>And all your phones to the BT socket (or Krone them to the back of the
>faceplate) and forget about additional filters.

He he - so it would now seem from what others have said! But honest -
its how they were connected 4 years ago - and until 2 days ago had
been working fine with both my BTO 512K and 2MB bulldog connections.
Thinking about it - the one time I did have problems, was put down to
the modem. The BT engineer brought out a replacement "frog" which I am
now using. He would have seen the fact I was using a filter and had
the modem and phone in tandem in that filter. In fact - it was him
that connected it back up!



--
www.senaction.com

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 22:08:11 +0000, Phil Thompson
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>if this is a filtered faceplate the ADSL should only be on the RJ45
>socket and the BT type socket should be filtered. If the modem worked
>plugged into the BT type socket you must have a very strong signal
>that can get through the voice port of the filter !

Picking up on your point there - I live about 1Km from the exchange,
so would expect a decent signal.

I've just run an adslguide.org speed test - which comes back as
follows:

Downstream 1832 Kbps (229.0 KB/sec) 1978 Kbps (inc. overheads)
Upstream 243 Kbps (30.4 KB/sec) 262 Kbps (inc. overheads)

Which I would say is pretty much what it would have been when plugged
in on the filtered voice connection! For a 2MB line would you say the
above figures are pretty good or just average? (I didnt have any other
internet activity running when testing.)

Second test 5 mins later is pretty much the same......

Downstream 1835 Kbps (229.4 KB/sec) 1981 Kbps (inc. overheads)
Upstream 239 Kbps (29.9 KB/sec) 258 Kbps (inc. overheads)




--
www.senaction.com

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 23:26:19 -0000, "kraftee" <kraftee@spamoff&
die.com> wrote:

>As for any problems with normal extensions, they would have been connected
>to the back of the faceplate filter vis IDC connectors & so would be easy to
>disconnect (just pull them out/off) BUT if it was a dedicated digital
>extesnion (with a RJ11 socket) BT are supoposed to maintain them & this
>would have plugged into the RJ45 on the frontof the faceplate (the one on
>the left).

OK. I decided to take the cover off to investigate. The engineer
certainly has disconnected the outgoing cable from this socket - so
its at least cleared that bit up!

I was hoping I was just going to be able to simply plug something back
in and avoid him coming back, but the cable has just been cut with
lots of lose telephone wires dangling! Cant even see where they would
even have been connected inside the socket itself!

The only thing connected to that socket, is 2 thin cables - the rest
in and out are not connected.



--
www.senaction.com

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 00:32:35 +0000, guv <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 23:26:19 -0000, "kraftee" <kraftee@spamoff&
>die.com> wrote:
>
>>As for any problems with normal extensions, they would have been connected
>>to the back of the faceplate filter vis IDC connectors & so would be easy to
>>disconnect (just pull them out/off) BUT if it was a dedicated digital
>>extesnion (with a RJ11 socket) BT are supoposed to maintain them & this
>>would have plugged into the RJ45 on the frontof the faceplate (the one on
>>the left).
>
>OK. I decided to take the cover off to investigate. The engineer
>certainly has disconnected the outgoing cable from this socket - so
>its at least cleared that bit up!
>
>I was hoping I was just going to be able to simply plug something back
>in and avoid him coming back, but the cable has just been cut with
>lots of lose telephone wires dangling! Cant even see where they would
>even have been connected inside the socket itself!
>
>The only thing connected to that socket, is 2 thin cables - the rest
>in and out are not connected.

That is all that are normally connected.

If you look at the back of the faceplate when you take it out, you
will see a block containing three slots. That is where the extension
wires plug in.

Oddly, although only two of the wires from outside are connected, you
will need three of the (probably) four wires in the extension cable
connected to that socket, and the connector slots are probably
numbered 2,3,5

If the wires in the extension cable are standard colouring, you should
use the blue wire with white rings in slot 2, the Orange wire with
white rings in slot 3, and the white with blue rings in slot 5.

BUT - you MUST use the right tool, not something like a screwdriver,
or you are likely to break the connector. This is called a Krone
tool. You can get cheap plastic versions, suitable for a few uses only
at most DIY stores.

ALSO - he disconnected the extension because THRE IS A PROBLEM. If you
just reconnect, the odds are you will go back to the broken situation
you had before he came.

If that is a problem in the wiring, then you will need to replace
that. If it is a problem in one of the devices, that is easier to deal
with.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Shift key? this keyboard is an automatic!

To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom