Broadband order problem

With the new reach distances in operation I excitedly ordered a 512k
broadband product 4 days ago. Correctly or incorrectly I telephoned BT
Wholesale to check on the status of my order. They informed me that my 2
meg connection had been cancelled, I said "I haven't ordered a 2 meg
connection", they said, your ISP has. I emailled my ISP and this is what
they had to say.

Does anyone understand this who can explain it to me? As far as I can see
it, why order 2meg when I know I am going to struggle to recieve even 512k,
as per the checker and a failed previous offer (prior to the 6th Sept).


There are no problems at all (excluding the usual). First off, for BT to
have even spoken to you about the order, I am amazed, they wont even speak
to us about the order... So, I think i'm making a phonecall to BT to find
out what is going on.... Who was it you were speaking to from BT wholesale?

Secondly, our suppliers place an order with the maximum speed (as dictated
by BT's own website) outlined. This is so that BT place the order at the
speed we have requested (in this case 512) and confirm the maximum speed
which may be attained (which according to their site is 2Mb). Now, this is
were the 'problem' may lie, and this is why we state a 10 to 15 day lead
time. If, for some reason or another, the order fails due to a line length
issue, the order is instantly re-placed for the same speed on the other
variation of broadband (there are two types, datastream and ipstream...
neither of which I would enjoy explaining via e-mail and i'm not sure if you
would overly appreciate the technical aspects either) which is not nearly as
dependant on vp capacity, line length and other factors. So, whoever told
you it had been cancelled is only telling you half the story. Basically, IF
the first order failed for datastream, then our suppliers will have placed
an order for the IPstream equivalent, and they will investigate it to see if
it is a viable option. Then they will let us know and we, in turn, will let
you know.

"Dave" <@.> wrote in message
news:41407c34$0$38902$(E-Mail Removed)...
> With the new reach distances in operation I excitedly ordered a 512k
> broadband product 4 days ago. Correctly or incorrectly I telephoned BT
> Wholesale to check on the status of my order. They informed me that my 2
> meg connection had been cancelled, I said "I haven't ordered a 2 meg
> connection", they said, your ISP has. I emailled my ISP and this is what
> they had to say.
>
> Does anyone understand this who can explain it to me? As far as I can see
> it, why order 2meg when I know I am going to struggle to recieve even
> 512k,
> as per the checker and a failed previous offer (prior to the 6th Sept).

Is the name of the ISP such a secret that you can't even mention their name?

Bob J wrote:
> "Dave" <@.> wrote in message
> news:41407c34$0$38902$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> With the new reach distances in operation I excitedly ordered a
>> 512k broadband product 4 days ago. Correctly or incorrectly I
>> telephoned BT Wholesale to check on the status of my order. They
>> informed me that my 2 meg connection had been cancelled, I said "I
>> haven't ordered a 2 meg connection", they said, your ISP has. I
>> emailled my ISP and this is what they had to say.
>>
>> Does anyone understand this who can explain it to me? As far as I
>> can see it, why order 2meg when I know I am going to struggle to
>> recieve even 512k,
>> as per the checker and a failed previous offer (prior to the 6th
>> Sept).
>
> Is the name of the ISP such a secret that you can't even mention
> their name?

Wouldn't begin with a letter T would it???

"Dave" <@.> wrote in message
news:41407c34$0$38902$(E-Mail Removed)
> With the new reach distances in operation I excitedly ordered a 512k
> broadband product 4 days ago. Correctly or incorrectly I telephoned
> BT Wholesale to check on the status of my order. They informed me
> that my 2 meg connection had been cancelled, I said "I haven't
> ordered a 2 meg connection", they said, your ISP has. I emailled my
> ISP and this is what they had to say.
>
> Does anyone understand this who can explain it to me? As far as I
> can see it, why order 2meg when I know I am going to struggle to
> recieve even 512k, as per the checker and a failed previous offer
> (prior to the 6th Sept).

Yes, it means that you have ordered from an ISP which uses "DataStream"
rather than IPStream (which most ISP's do).

Among other things, the cost to an ISP of a 2MB and 512MB DataStream line is
the same - hence they (or their suppliers) are trying to provide you with a
2MB line which they then intend to cap. When you fail the order for 2MB they
will probably try submitting your order for 1MB and then for 512K.

Which ISP are you planning to use? Not many use DataStream now.. you can
either put up with it or cancel or order and go with a IPStream ISP - in
which case you should be connected within 4/5 days.

Regards
Sunil

The ISP I have ordered with is Firenet.

Whats the difference between IPStream and Datastream? Is IPStream better
for some reason, if so in what way would the user notice the difference?

"Sunil Sood" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Dave" <@.> wrote in message
> news:41407c34$0$38902$(E-Mail Removed)
> > With the new reach distances in operation I excitedly ordered a 512k
> > broadband product 4 days ago. Correctly or incorrectly I telephoned
> > BT Wholesale to check on the status of my order. They informed me
> > that my 2 meg connection had been cancelled, I said "I haven't
> > ordered a 2 meg connection", they said, your ISP has. I emailled my
> > ISP and this is what they had to say.
> >
> > Does anyone understand this who can explain it to me? As far as I
> > can see it, why order 2meg when I know I am going to struggle to
> > recieve even 512k, as per the checker and a failed previous offer
> > (prior to the 6th Sept).
>
> Yes, it means that you have ordered from an ISP which uses "DataStream"
> rather than IPStream (which most ISP's do).
>
> Among other things, the cost to an ISP of a 2MB and 512MB DataStream line
is
> the same - hence they (or their suppliers) are trying to provide you with
a
> 2MB line which they then intend to cap. When you fail the order for 2MB
they
> will probably try submitting your order for 1MB and then for 512K.
>
> Which ISP are you planning to use? Not many use DataStream now.. you can
> either put up with it or cancel or order and go with a IPStream ISP - in
> which case you should be connected within 4/5 days.
>
> Regards
> Sunil
>
>

"Dave" <@.> wrote in message
news:4141622e$0$32057$(E-Mail Removed)
> The ISP I have ordered with is Firenet.
>
> Whats the difference between IPStream and Datastream? Is IPStream
> better for some reason, if so in what way would the user notice the
> difference?

IPStream and DataStream are different ways of transporting the IP traffic
from your exchange to the ISP.

Since I've explained it here in the past I was going to point you to
http://www.adslguide.org.uk/qanda.as...beginners#Q259 but its not a very
clear explanation so..

IPStream is where BT Wholesale carry the IP traffic from your exchange to
the ISP.

Now with IPStream, BT will "bundle" many users in large virtual pipes from
the exchange - so the affects of contention are not noticed that much
(especially as not all the users will be downloading at the same time)

DataStream is where another telco (or your ISP) carry the traffic from the
BT exchange to their core network. This is generally cheaper for the ISP.

This allows ISP's, if they use DataStream to "invent" your own products,
i.e. Bulldog had Primetime ("time of day") products and 50:1 2MB
products -neither of which BT offered

Now the way BT DataStream works is: (Note: I am making these figures up as
an example!)

If there is 1-3 2MB users on the exchange the ISP/telco provides 2MB in
backhaul
If there are 4-5 2MB users they provide 3MB in backhaul etc..
If there are more than 6 users they may provide 4/5MB backhaul from your
exchange to their core network and so on..

Generally this works quite well - as an exchange gets more customers the
ISP/telco increase the capacity that it has to their core network - and is a
lot less than the specified 20/50:1 contention ratio you will have signed up
too... - also remember most customers won't be downloading all the time -
thus there will be spare bandwidth/backhaul for when you do want to
download.

However, if you are unlucky and you only have one or two lines on a BT
DataStream exchange, who try and download at the same time it ruins their
planning/capacity calculations - while you will still get bandwidth etc -
you will not be able to always "max" it out in those cases.. - until the
ISP/other telco increase the capacity and/or there are more customers on the
exchange etc.

However, Firenet will be buying they DataStream service from someone else -
probably Tiscali or Telefonica.. so they will probably have quite a few
customers in "total" on your exchange.

Regards
Sunil

Sunil

Thanks very much for your extremely comprehensive answer.

So the short of it, is that I shouldn't really be worried about receiving a
DataStream service...I think?

"Sunil Sood" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Dave" <@.> wrote in message
> news:4141622e$0$32057$(E-Mail Removed)
> > The ISP I have ordered with is Firenet.
> >
> > Whats the difference between IPStream and Datastream? Is IPStream
> > better for some reason, if so in what way would the user notice the
> > difference?
>
> IPStream and DataStream are different ways of transporting the IP traffic
> from your exchange to the ISP.
>
> Since I've explained it here in the past I was going to point you to
> http://www.adslguide.org.uk/qanda.as...beginners#Q259 but its not a
very
> clear explanation so..
>
> IPStream is where BT Wholesale carry the IP traffic from your exchange to
> the ISP.
>
> Now with IPStream, BT will "bundle" many users in large virtual pipes from
> the exchange - so the affects of contention are not noticed that much
> (especially as not all the users will be downloading at the same time)
>
> DataStream is where another telco (or your ISP) carry the traffic from the
> BT exchange to their core network. This is generally cheaper for the ISP.
>
> This allows ISP's, if they use DataStream to "invent" your own products,
> i.e. Bulldog had Primetime ("time of day") products and 50:1 2MB
> products -neither of which BT offered
>
> Now the way BT DataStream works is: (Note: I am making these figures up as
> an example!)
>
> If there is 1-3 2MB users on the exchange the ISP/telco provides 2MB in
> backhaul
> If there are 4-5 2MB users they provide 3MB in backhaul etc..
> If there are more than 6 users they may provide 4/5MB backhaul from your
> exchange to their core network and so on..
>
> Generally this works quite well - as an exchange gets more customers the
> ISP/telco increase the capacity that it has to their core network - and is
a
> lot less than the specified 20/50:1 contention ratio you will have signed
up
> too... - also remember most customers won't be downloading all the time -
> thus there will be spare bandwidth/backhaul for when you do want to
> download.
>
> However, if you are unlucky and you only have one or two lines on a BT
> DataStream exchange, who try and download at the same time it ruins their
> planning/capacity calculations - while you will still get bandwidth etc -
> you will not be able to always "max" it out in those cases.. - until the
> ISP/other telco increase the capacity and/or there are more customers on
the
> exchange etc.
>
> However, Firenet will be buying they DataStream service from someone
else -
> probably Tiscali or Telefonica.. so they will probably have quite a few
> customers in "total" on your exchange.
>
> Regards
> Sunil
>
>

"Dave" <@.> wrote in message
news:41482681$0$46886$(E-Mail Removed)

> Thanks very much for your extremely comprehensive answer.
>
> So the short of it, is that I shouldn't really be worried about
> receiving a DataStream service...I think?

It really depends on how well the ISP's DataStream provider manages
contention/the size of the local Virtual Pipe. Some are better than others..

Regards
Sunil